Skymaster/BVM
02-18-2009 | 02:54 PM
#106
RE: Skymaster/BVM
From what I hear the SM F16 1/6th scale fly very well!
Gotta love that landing gear
I have always wanted to replace the BVM F16 that I had, nice future project but first I have to finish the BVM F4 and F100D
Gotta love that landing gear
I have always wanted to replace the BVM F16 that I had, nice future project but first I have to finish the BVM F4 and F100D
02-18-2009 | 03:43 PM
#107
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster/BVM
David,
I have to disagree with your first sentence. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by outdated, as BVM jets are well designed and engineered products.
Of any manufacturer of RC Jets BV and his field reps put more stick time on their models than any other I know of. This allows them to constantly update and improve their product. Pricing is consistent with a quality product. David as the owner of some rather expensive models yourself I find it hard to believe that consider BVM Jets overpriced. BVM jets has both Top quality ARF and kits. The addition of the Skymaster line fills in voids in the offerings.
Regards,
Bob Belluomini
I have to disagree with your first sentence. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by outdated, as BVM jets are well designed and engineered products.
Of any manufacturer of RC Jets BV and his field reps put more stick time on their models than any other I know of. This allows them to constantly update and improve their product. Pricing is consistent with a quality product. David as the owner of some rather expensive models yourself I find it hard to believe that consider BVM Jets overpriced. BVM jets has both Top quality ARF and kits. The addition of the Skymaster line fills in voids in the offerings.
Regards,
Bob Belluomini
ORIGINAL: David Searles
My BUSINESS observation:
BVM's products are outdated & overpriced for current market conditions. In order to keep his doors open he needed to produce or acquire another line of products that can compete. Producing or adapting his current line to today's pricing would be too expensive with little profit potential. How to best use his reputation for quality products? Simple: Acquire, or become a dealer for, the best quality ARF mfg in the current market. SkyMaster. In order to make the $$$ work, he needed to be a sole source provider, without competition of "local" dealers.
RCI owns exclusive rights to USA market for distribution of SkyMaster products. A heavy financial commitment in a slow economy. Answer: Sell half the responsibility to BVM, end all dealership agreements and become combination distributor/dealer for greater control and higher profit margins.
Except for the previous bad blood between Anton & Bob V, it makes perfect business sense for both parties.
David S
My BUSINESS observation:
BVM's products are outdated & overpriced for current market conditions. In order to keep his doors open he needed to produce or acquire another line of products that can compete. Producing or adapting his current line to today's pricing would be too expensive with little profit potential. How to best use his reputation for quality products? Simple: Acquire, or become a dealer for, the best quality ARF mfg in the current market. SkyMaster. In order to make the $$$ work, he needed to be a sole source provider, without competition of "local" dealers.
RCI owns exclusive rights to USA market for distribution of SkyMaster products. A heavy financial commitment in a slow economy. Answer: Sell half the responsibility to BVM, end all dealership agreements and become combination distributor/dealer for greater control and higher profit margins.
Except for the previous bad blood between Anton & Bob V, it makes perfect business sense for both parties.
David S
02-18-2009 | 04:03 PM
#108
My Feedback: (49)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: SANTA ANA, CA
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Bob,
My observation is from a purely "Business" standpoint. The current market is and has been moving towards the ARF market and away from higher quality "build kits" such as the BVM. I have no actual bottom line proof but my observation would be that SkyMaster has sold a hell of a lot more F-4's than BVM has in the last year. SkyMaster has sold a hell of a lot more kits in the last year than BVM has. SkyMaster has probably made a lot more $$$ in the last couple years than BVM.
The proof, is in the action that BVM has now taken to carry a line of kits that he has spent years competing aggressively against. WHY? Common business sense tells you this type of aggressive action is not taken without cause. My belief is that BVM has been losing more and more market share to SkyMaster each year. It is my "observation" that the cause, since it obviously is not lack of quality or flyability (BVM kits are well known for their outstanding quality & engineering) falls in the area of costs relative to what you can get by comparison in the market today. Example: I've seen several BVM kits for sale on RCU over the past months that can't be sold, even for substantial discounts from the cost of new. I remember a couple years ago, a brand new BVM F-100D kit on RCU for $1,000 less than Go-Fly price wouldn't have lasted a day before getting snapped up. Why isn't it selling? Why aren't the other fully built BVM aircraft being offered for sale on RCU getting bites? Simple answer is that the market HAS CHANGED. Most folks aren't looking to spend $7,000+ for a kit that has quite a bit of building involved when you can spend $4-5k for a completely built and painted HIGH QUALITY ARF from SkyMaster that will fly as well.
Please understand, I have drooled over every BVM F-100 I've ever seen and have longed to have one, but when I personally have done a cost and technology comparison between what the F-100 would cost me in build time as well as dollars, and what I could get elsewhere, suffice it to say I still don't own a BVM F-100. Though if the one currently offered on RCU gets much lower, that could change quickly.
Again these are just my personal "observations" correct in fact or not.
David S
My observation is from a purely "Business" standpoint. The current market is and has been moving towards the ARF market and away from higher quality "build kits" such as the BVM. I have no actual bottom line proof but my observation would be that SkyMaster has sold a hell of a lot more F-4's than BVM has in the last year. SkyMaster has sold a hell of a lot more kits in the last year than BVM has. SkyMaster has probably made a lot more $$$ in the last couple years than BVM.
The proof, is in the action that BVM has now taken to carry a line of kits that he has spent years competing aggressively against. WHY? Common business sense tells you this type of aggressive action is not taken without cause. My belief is that BVM has been losing more and more market share to SkyMaster each year. It is my "observation" that the cause, since it obviously is not lack of quality or flyability (BVM kits are well known for their outstanding quality & engineering) falls in the area of costs relative to what you can get by comparison in the market today. Example: I've seen several BVM kits for sale on RCU over the past months that can't be sold, even for substantial discounts from the cost of new. I remember a couple years ago, a brand new BVM F-100D kit on RCU for $1,000 less than Go-Fly price wouldn't have lasted a day before getting snapped up. Why isn't it selling? Why aren't the other fully built BVM aircraft being offered for sale on RCU getting bites? Simple answer is that the market HAS CHANGED. Most folks aren't looking to spend $7,000+ for a kit that has quite a bit of building involved when you can spend $4-5k for a completely built and painted HIGH QUALITY ARF from SkyMaster that will fly as well.
Please understand, I have drooled over every BVM F-100 I've ever seen and have longed to have one, but when I personally have done a cost and technology comparison between what the F-100 would cost me in build time as well as dollars, and what I could get elsewhere, suffice it to say I still don't own a BVM F-100. Though if the one currently offered on RCU gets much lower, that could change quickly.
Again these are just my personal "observations" correct in fact or not.
David S
02-18-2009 | 04:14 PM
#109
My Feedback: (11)
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Points well taken. As a modeler for over 40 years I enjoy seeing my efforts rewarded every time I fly one of my models that I have built and painted myself.
I do understand that many R/C enthusiasts do not have the time to build and/or the desire or skill set to do so and I do not mean that in a derogatory manner either.
I'm very glad to see the quality of these arf models improving to the level they have.
Bob
I do understand that many R/C enthusiasts do not have the time to build and/or the desire or skill set to do so and I do not mean that in a derogatory manner either.
I'm very glad to see the quality of these arf models improving to the level they have.
Bob
02-18-2009 | 04:25 PM
#110
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Well said
You need only to look at other facets of our hobby to see what has been going on the past few years. Prop , cars and heli's have become almost plug and play and in some cases are. Now with that said, ONLY overseas labor and knowledge learned and copied from successful company's can prices for arf kits be made for the price offered. One reason that BVM stuff is expensive (so called) is because of R&D and cost of labor and manufacturing costs in this country. He pays a wage that has kept employees there almost since he started in the mid to late 80's. Only owning your own company could you understand all that goes into it. I personally applaud anyone that can run a company and do it with the level of success that BV has had. Now in this global market BVM and SM are doing what is needed to keep as strong in these economic times as possible. I think both brands will compliment each other real well and in the long run could be a win win for all. Bottom line is bring what ya built to the field and have fun. FUN FUN FUN>>>>>>>>>>>> ;
You need only to look at other facets of our hobby to see what has been going on the past few years. Prop , cars and heli's have become almost plug and play and in some cases are. Now with that said, ONLY overseas labor and knowledge learned and copied from successful company's can prices for arf kits be made for the price offered. One reason that BVM stuff is expensive (so called) is because of R&D and cost of labor and manufacturing costs in this country. He pays a wage that has kept employees there almost since he started in the mid to late 80's. Only owning your own company could you understand all that goes into it. I personally applaud anyone that can run a company and do it with the level of success that BV has had. Now in this global market BVM and SM are doing what is needed to keep as strong in these economic times as possible. I think both brands will compliment each other real well and in the long run could be a win win for all. Bottom line is bring what ya built to the field and have fun. FUN FUN FUN>>>>>>>>>>>> ;
02-18-2009 | 04:25 PM
#111
My Feedback: (22)
RE: Skymaster/BVM
I have to agree with David, I do like BVM's products, they work, they are complete, they are very low maintenance. However, while BV's pricing continues to increase on his jets, there are more and more companies coming out with lower and lower pricing.
In that sense, I think BV's stuff is becoming outdated. I think the other thing that has slowed down sales for BVM is lack of new products. In all truthfulness, what has BVM brought out in the last 5 years that is appealing to a large group of jet modelers? Nothing that I can think of. The Ultra Bandit is alright, but it's a $12,000 ARF, there is huge competition in that market for way less money. Their big F86 was nice, but it was a huge amount of building and a very expensive kit ($7500 I believe) The Bandit ARF was a success to some extent, but again, it is quite expensive compared to the competition. The EVF stuff is neat, but is there really that big of a market for EDF systems that cost as much as a 14lb thrust turbine (by the time you buy batteries, ESC, motor, fan etc) particularly when there are other EDF systems out there producing the same performance for much lower cost.
The simple truth is, BVM was a definite leader in RC jets, but he hasn't changed his designs, his quality is still the same good quality that it's always been, but it hasn't gotten better and with the Chinese stuff getting better and better every day, BVM needs to be getting better to stay ahead, that's not to say that BVM quality is poor, not in any way, all I'm saying is, the Chinese stuff becomes a better bang for the buck all the time.
BVM is certainly one of the leaders when it comes to product testing so that the consumer will be successful, but I think when it comes to their current products, they have stayed a few years behind now.
Lets face it, at this point, everyone who wanted a BVM F4 Phantom has one, those who were considering one are probably looking harder at the SM Phantom now. Everyone who wanted an F100 has probably bought one, I haven't seen an F100 thread pop up in a long time. Only 2 years ago a Super Bandit would sell in RCU's marketplace for over 10K RTF, so would a Kingcat, those days are gone.
The market has changed so dramatically, as has the consumer. I feel that is where BVM has fallen behind, they haven't kept up with what the current jet modeler wants, IF the only jet companies out there still were BVM, JMP, Yellow Aircraft, and Jet Hangar Hobbies I'm sure BVM would still be the top dog, but I also think there would be a lot less RC jet modelers out there. While I applaud BVM for trying to keep their products made in the USA, from a business standpoint, he can't compete in today's market that way.
As such, we now see them selling Skymaster, this is the first real move forward I see from BVM in a few years. Again, I don't mean that negatively, I think it's smart on their part because their product is definitely not moving like it used to.
Just my 2 cents.
In that sense, I think BV's stuff is becoming outdated. I think the other thing that has slowed down sales for BVM is lack of new products. In all truthfulness, what has BVM brought out in the last 5 years that is appealing to a large group of jet modelers? Nothing that I can think of. The Ultra Bandit is alright, but it's a $12,000 ARF, there is huge competition in that market for way less money. Their big F86 was nice, but it was a huge amount of building and a very expensive kit ($7500 I believe) The Bandit ARF was a success to some extent, but again, it is quite expensive compared to the competition. The EVF stuff is neat, but is there really that big of a market for EDF systems that cost as much as a 14lb thrust turbine (by the time you buy batteries, ESC, motor, fan etc) particularly when there are other EDF systems out there producing the same performance for much lower cost.
The simple truth is, BVM was a definite leader in RC jets, but he hasn't changed his designs, his quality is still the same good quality that it's always been, but it hasn't gotten better and with the Chinese stuff getting better and better every day, BVM needs to be getting better to stay ahead, that's not to say that BVM quality is poor, not in any way, all I'm saying is, the Chinese stuff becomes a better bang for the buck all the time.
BVM is certainly one of the leaders when it comes to product testing so that the consumer will be successful, but I think when it comes to their current products, they have stayed a few years behind now.
Lets face it, at this point, everyone who wanted a BVM F4 Phantom has one, those who were considering one are probably looking harder at the SM Phantom now. Everyone who wanted an F100 has probably bought one, I haven't seen an F100 thread pop up in a long time. Only 2 years ago a Super Bandit would sell in RCU's marketplace for over 10K RTF, so would a Kingcat, those days are gone.
The market has changed so dramatically, as has the consumer. I feel that is where BVM has fallen behind, they haven't kept up with what the current jet modeler wants, IF the only jet companies out there still were BVM, JMP, Yellow Aircraft, and Jet Hangar Hobbies I'm sure BVM would still be the top dog, but I also think there would be a lot less RC jet modelers out there. While I applaud BVM for trying to keep their products made in the USA, from a business standpoint, he can't compete in today's market that way.
As such, we now see them selling Skymaster, this is the first real move forward I see from BVM in a few years. Again, I don't mean that negatively, I think it's smart on their part because their product is definitely not moving like it used to.
Just my 2 cents.
02-19-2009 | 02:40 AM
#112
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Skymaster/BVM
ORIGINAL: Patrick Frost
"You live in Missouri right? Isn't that kind of Mid-West? How can you be a BVM/Skymaster rep if BV is the EXCLUSIVE EAST COAST distributor for Skymaster?? You can't sell Skymaster kits if you live in Missouri. Only peeps on the EAST COAST.
Please tell me I am missing something here." - ama 234
Hopefully this will clarify a few things: BVM is not merging with SkyMaster, they are only selling SkyMaster products in the 'Eastern Region of the USA'. BVM will sell SkyMaster products East of and including the following States: Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and the Eastern part of Texas.
"You live in Missouri right? Isn't that kind of Mid-West? How can you be a BVM/Skymaster rep if BV is the EXCLUSIVE EAST COAST distributor for Skymaster?? You can't sell Skymaster kits if you live in Missouri. Only peeps on the EAST COAST.
Please tell me I am missing something here." - ama 234
Hopefully this will clarify a few things: BVM is not merging with SkyMaster, they are only selling SkyMaster products in the 'Eastern Region of the USA'. BVM will sell SkyMaster products East of and including the following States: Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and the Eastern part of Texas.
Wow! And all this time I thought I lived in the Central part of the U.S. I never realized that we were actually on the East Coast. Man! I guess Myrtle Beach is closer than I thought; just a quick trip of 20 hours of driving and I'll be beachside and having fun!
02-19-2009 | 06:46 PM
#113
My Feedback: (24)
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,234
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Fond du Lac,
WI
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Has anyone else noticed the quantum leap in prices on the Skymast-USA website vs Anton's website.
F-16-1/6-SM-USA->5355.75 vs 2995.00 on Anton's site
F-86-SM-USA>2960.00 vs 1650 on Anton's site
F-4SM-USA>5229.00 vs 2995 on Anton's site.......
F-16-1/6-SM-USA->5355.75 vs 2995.00 on Anton's site
F-86-SM-USA>2960.00 vs 1650 on Anton's site
F-4SM-USA>5229.00 vs 2995 on Anton's site.......
02-19-2009 | 06:55 PM
#114
Banned
My Feedback: (88)
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,301
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Rolla, MO
RE: Skymaster/BVM
ORIGINAL: ama234
Wow! And all this time I thought I lived in the Central part of the U.S. I never realized that we were actually on the East Coast. Man! I guess Myrtle Beach is closer than I thought; just a quick trip of 20 hours of driving and I'll be beachside and having fun!
ORIGINAL: Patrick Frost
"You live in Missouri right? Isn't that kind of Mid-West? How can you be a BVM/Skymaster rep if BV is the EXCLUSIVE EAST COAST distributor for Skymaster?? You can't sell Skymaster kits if you live in Missouri. Only peeps on the EAST COAST.
Please tell me I am missing something here." - ama 234
Hopefully this will clarify a few things: BVM is not merging with SkyMaster, they are only selling SkyMaster products in the 'Eastern Region of the USA'. BVM will sell SkyMaster products East of and including the following States: Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and the Eastern part of Texas.
"You live in Missouri right? Isn't that kind of Mid-West? How can you be a BVM/Skymaster rep if BV is the EXCLUSIVE EAST COAST distributor for Skymaster?? You can't sell Skymaster kits if you live in Missouri. Only peeps on the EAST COAST.
Please tell me I am missing something here." - ama 234
Hopefully this will clarify a few things: BVM is not merging with SkyMaster, they are only selling SkyMaster products in the 'Eastern Region of the USA'. BVM will sell SkyMaster products East of and including the following States: Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, Louisiana and the Eastern part of Texas.
Wow! And all this time I thought I lived in the Central part of the U.S. I never realized that we were actually on the East Coast. Man! I guess Myrtle Beach is closer than I thought; just a quick trip of 20 hours of driving and I'll be beachside and having fun!
If you are in Texas your are DEFINATELY on the East Coast! Cmon man............................get with the program!
02-19-2009 | 07:06 PM
#115
My Feedback: (37)
RE: Skymaster/BVM
tom, i went and had a look. you are right. the price went way up. it doesnt matter to me who hooks up to stay competitive in the economic tough times. having said that, this kind of a price increase overnight will have only one outcome. less kits sold. that is only my opinion. i was planning on buying a viper jet, but it is to much for what it is to me. after all, it is made in china, things arent quite as good, ie, glass, resin and metals. i am ok with that when the price reflects that. i have owned skymaster jets here and there. they are nice, but not 5000bucks nice. it is what it is, and time will tell. i wish all parties the best, barry
02-19-2009 | 07:12 PM
#116
My Feedback: (49)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 2,182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: SANTA ANA, CA
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Guys, WHOAAAAA
The $2,495 on Anton's site is for the base white gelcoat F-16, airplane only. The higher price on SkyMaster USA site is a package price for everything, in a painted model. Add up everything on Anton's site and you'll come up with the same price.
David S
The $2,495 on Anton's site is for the base white gelcoat F-16, airplane only. The higher price on SkyMaster USA site is a package price for everything, in a painted model. Add up everything on Anton's site and you'll come up with the same price.
David S
02-19-2009 | 07:14 PM
#117
Senior Member
My Feedback: (29)
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,671
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Phoenix, AZ
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Guys,
I am not a 100% sure but it looks like SKY MASTER USA is quoting the full Pro go fly price. the kit with the gear, doors cylinders airl lines hooked up the fuel cells the pipe all the goodies. Because the viper price I paid was about the same with all the items. I think the cock pit is extra $99.00 with the kit.
Ronald R Long
I am not a 100% sure but it looks like SKY MASTER USA is quoting the full Pro go fly price. the kit with the gear, doors cylinders airl lines hooked up the fuel cells the pipe all the goodies. Because the viper price I paid was about the same with all the items. I think the cock pit is extra $99.00 with the kit.
Ronald R Long
02-19-2009 | 07:17 PM
#118
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 124
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Simi Valley,
CA
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Tom, u2fast,
Skymaster USA has not had a price increase in almost a year and as stated in earlier posts, we have no plans to increase prices.
The prices on our site reflect the "Go Fly" price which includes Airframe, Landing Gear Wheels and Brakes, Fuel Tanks, Pipe, Hardware, Gear Door Cylinders, Hardware, Air Kit, and Pro Version Upgrade. Anton's site reflects the individual parts. If you compare Apples to Apples you will find little discrepancy.
Regards,
Jason Somes
RCI
Skymaster USA has not had a price increase in almost a year and as stated in earlier posts, we have no plans to increase prices.
The prices on our site reflect the "Go Fly" price which includes Airframe, Landing Gear Wheels and Brakes, Fuel Tanks, Pipe, Hardware, Gear Door Cylinders, Hardware, Air Kit, and Pro Version Upgrade. Anton's site reflects the individual parts. If you compare Apples to Apples you will find little discrepancy.
Regards,
Jason Somes
RCI
02-19-2009 | 08:46 PM
#120
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Monticello, Il
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Jason,
The L-39 is getting closer!! Gonna have my new p-120 sx on monday! Im making some sweet trays to hold the ECU, Air valve, and all the necessary stuff. I can't wait to try it out, I bet it will fly well off grass with that engine and trailing link gear and large tires.
Ron,
you coming out to Fl?? if not, why the heck not?
Frosty,
Get a life!! ... call me sometime
The L-39 is getting closer!! Gonna have my new p-120 sx on monday! Im making some sweet trays to hold the ECU, Air valve, and all the necessary stuff. I can't wait to try it out, I bet it will fly well off grass with that engine and trailing link gear and large tires.
Ron,
you coming out to Fl?? if not, why the heck not?
Frosty,
Get a life!! ... call me sometime
02-19-2009 | 08:55 PM
#122
My Feedback: (14)
RE: Skymaster/BVM
Ok so now that BVM have join the team there is no more sell for just the airframe? And accessories apart? Just only one option to buy the whole package at once? Great move in this economic crisis. Can you elaborate better your new pricing policies. I went to the accessories and all prices are $0.00 now Thanks
Alex
Alex
