Hemi,
In the grand scheme of things, the goal is for customers to be able to buy a quality product and get superior customer service wherever they buy their aircraft. I think there is no argument that BVM has a very long track record of excellent customer service and this I am sure will carry over to the new Skymaster products they are offering. I cannot speak for anyone as to what would happen if you wanted a product but did not want to purchase from the dealer in your region, but if this was the case I would suggest calling Skymaster USA and inquire about your options. The guy's are very professional and committed to making everyone happy and successful with this line of aircraft, so I'm sure that something can always be worked out to make sure everyone is happy "if" any certain situation should arise.
Once again, Skymaster USA has no plans to raise prices! This has been mentioned over and over, but I feel that nobody has listened to the answer from the head honcho himself (Jason Somes) who answered that question in this thread. People associate BVM with higher prices, so I can see where the initial question came from, but remember there are Skymaster USA prices already in place (Same as Skymaster Anton) that all dealers will comply with.
I hope this clears up a few of your questions, and if there is any other clarity that you require I would be more then happy to find the answers for you.
Take care,
Dave

Why would the dealers need to comply with the distributor pricing? Though is not legal for a distributor to enforce customer pricing...
(Think they can force the advertised price, but not the final price)

I don't think anyone doubts that BVM will provide excellent customer service.

Clearly what this is all about is eliminating competition among Skymaster dealers and controlling prices. Previously we were able to call around to a number of dealers and shop for the best price. Some were willing to give discounts to make a sale and some offered package deals. Now it appears that we will be required to buy from the exclusive dealer for our region, who no doubt will quote the list price.

They all make out without raising retail prices at this time. Anton can raise his wholesale prices. The regional dealers can operate on a smaller margin because their sales volume goes up and have no need to offer any discounts. It's a good deal for Anton and the remaining dealers, not necessarily a good deal for the customer.

That's how I see it, time will tell.

Joe

I wonder when we'll start seeing Skymasters products on the BVM web site. Further, I'm surprised that BVM haven't emailed their customers yet.

Arnaud

I also wonder if BV will offer "upgrades", such as landing gear. These are typically the weak link in Chinese ARF's altough I understand they are improving. I'd be willing to pay a little extra for BV quality gear.

Craig

A new twist in the whole Skymaster/BVM saga... I talked to Tony at Jet Acestoday and he got a call from Jeff at Skymaster USA letting him know that his sales region had been reduced again to only include west texas and oklahoma and that he could not sale to anyone outside of that area for any reason. All of this among many other new restrictions. Now all of the customers that bought from Tony (myself included) will no longer be able to buy from him. Its a real crappy way this is going down. You dont treat a dealer like that. I am a business owner myself and I would never treat a sales rep like this, its unbelievable. Mark my words there will only be two people in the US that you will be able to buy Skymaster jets from RCI and BVM thats it. I think the crappiest part of this whole thing is that Tony has been fixing brand new skymaster birds for the last two years that have been delivered damaged or with some sort of defect. Example alerons falling off, cracks in the fuselages etc. even ones he hadn't sold, at not cost to Skymaster or the customer. Tony let me know that he was considering giving up the dealership because of this and was quite vocal with skymaster about not liking the ways this was shacking out. So they pulled his dealership. Details for Scale your next. The only way that this kind of bullying is going to stop is to not buy from these guys. They need to understand that they cant treat people like this. I would expect that all of the now axed dealers will promote a do not buy Skymaster or BVM campain. I myself will no longer buy Skymaster but will persue other options like Fly Eagle Jets. Anyone know how the Big Fly Eagle Super Hornet fly's? I was looking at that one on Jet Aces new website. Looks nice in the pics. For those of you who haven't seen it: www.jetaces.com Thanks for listening see you all at the field...

Hemidriver,

I would like to make a correction to your post. Contrary to your post, Tony from Jetsaces8 called RC International today and terminated his Skymaster dealership. We are sorry to lose him as a Skymaster dealer and wish him the best.

Hi I am Tony the owner of Jet Aces 8 RC I have been a dealer for skymaster jets for two years before skymaster USA came into play. Jeff called me today to tell me my sales region I have sold skymaster jets all over the USA and canada and Mexico in the USA for the last two years I have sold jets to almost every state. I have a long list of great customers and have spent two years building this customer base up. Now to have skymaster USA AKA RCI tell me I can only sell to customer's in west Texas and Oklahoma BVM will get my valued customer in all other states from central USA to the east cost and half of my state here in Texas. I find this to be a lode of crap I worked vary hard to get my customer base and to have BVM get my customer's this is not right.

And if you my valued customer do not like BVM you will still have to buy from him or go to Skymaster USA to get your jet kit. If you wont to get it from me then you will have to pay double shipping this is what Jeff at skymaster USA told me in other words my valued customer's out of my region can order the jet kit thru me but it would have to be shipped to me then I would have to ship it at a extra shipping charge to my customer's in order to get you your jet kit. I find this to be unethacal to do this to my many valued customer's to charge them another shipping charge just so you can buy thru me. I belive that the customer needs to be put first always and that my customer's deserve the best service they can get. My number is always open to my customer for help even if it is at 2:00 AM in the morning I am here to help you. Over the years I have build more jet's that most can count just kidding but I have build a lot of jets over the last 30 years and some are still flying that are over 15 years old.

After Jeff told me that my region was cut down to just west Texas and Oklahoma and that BVM was going to get my customer base well this was to much for me to deal with being washed out like this. I have always payed my bill's to skymaster USA all on time. And had never had any wrong doings with them at all. Now to have BVM move in on my customer 's that I worked to get well this is not right and is just plan wrong.

If BVM is hurting for sales well that is not my problem so why dose he have to take my customer base I worked for, for the last two years. There should not be region's fair is fair let the dealer that the customer wont's to deal with have a choice if there is a customer that wont's to go to BVM then go to BVM if he wont to go thru skymaster USA RCI then go there or if he wont's to go thru me then the customer should have the right to choose who he wont's to deal with it should be the customer choice. If my customer wont's to go to BVM then go to BVM but BVM should not have the say so where you go to get you skymaster jet kit it should be up to you the customer.

But because of what skymaster USA is doing giving BVM my customer base I will not be a dealer for them it is a mater of honesty and fairness not to give one person all the taking but to give me the right to sell to my customer's no mater where they live in the USA. If BVM is so afraid for some competition well all I can say is I am sorry competion is what makes this county great and we need more of it.

So Jet Aces 8 RC will no longer be a dealer for skymaster USA we are a dealer for Fly Eagle Jet and they have great jet kit's too take a look at your web page at www.jetaces.com our new web page we will be taking all the skymaster jet adds of the web page ASAP we are also a dealer for RO jets to they are up and coming and we will help them any way we can as well as with Fly Eagle Jet's. The F-14 is ready from Fly Eagle Jets I will have on in my shop in 3 weeks cannot wait to get her in the air.

I am here to serve you my valued customer's you can call me at any time day or night 24-7 even if you do not buy from us we are here to help you I have been building Jet's for the past 30 years From Yellow aircraft great jet's to Tom Cook and even BVM and Jet Mart and a lot more I have build them all at one time or another so if you need help please call I am here to serve you. We at Jet Aces 8 RC are doing tooling for our owen kit line I love WW 2 aircraft too so keep a eye out for the skyrader coming in 4 weeks 100 inch wing span all composite and a corsair with a 123 inch wing span and a ME 109 100 inch wing span and a F-6 F Hell Cat 128 inch wing span and late this year a F-86 and a MIG-15 the F-86 111 inch wing span 1/4 scale as well as the MIG-15 99.7 inche wing span true 1/4 scale. And we have a extra 300 27 % scale 35 % and a 40 % scale coming vary soon with supper great pricing the 37 % will be 1295.00 the 40 % scale will be 1495.00 and the little guy will be 495.00.

And PS I would still be a dealer for skymaster USA if they would not take my customer's from me and make it a fair playing field for all as it should be.

Thanks

Tony
Jet Aces 8 RC

Hemidriver,

I have had an affiliation with RCI since 2006 which included Airworld and recently Skymaster. Jorge Ragde, Sung Kim and Jason Somes are great guys to deal with.
While I do understand the loss of dealers and their feelings, I can relate to perhaps why the change needed to take place. I was a Skymaster dealer which did not produce enough sales to keep going. I can imagine that there were a few more as well...Maybe I am wrong as I am only speaking for myself. In these difficult times I believe changes needed to take place in order to maintain sales and service. I believe this was the best way to provide that service. If you are looking for a SM product, it should not matter where you purchase it from if you are receiving the same or better service. This service will be provided by RCI and BVM. It does not get better than that. Nothing is engraved in stone and we all make mistakes, that's how we learn. For those beating up on BV and calling him a Hippocrate makes no sense to me. Aren't we allowed to alter our views and thoughts to change as we hope to be the better? I made a comment once that I would not get involved in designing twin engine aircraft for my company. I got blasted by a competitor designer because I changed my mind. That's wrong of me? If we don't make some changes we might just end up one of the statistics. Just so you guys know I am not on the payroll for either party nor am I a rep at this time. However, give these guys a chance to shine before kicking their doors down. It's all for the better in the long run. (Just my personal thoughts) [sm=50_50.gif]

You guys do know that there is a PERSONAL relationship between Sommes and other Skymaster guys out there in California and BVM right??? The old boy network, and brother in law deals is always going to supersede logic and common sense.

History suggests that the end result will not be longevity. Also, keep in mind that companies that are owned by one guy and then left to the children, statistically do they thrive when the one guy is gone?

I have been consistently trying to learn to make the things that I really like in this hobby for years, because just like my local hobby shop that closed up a few weeks ago, any of our suppliers could close at any time.

If you guys saw the types of gizmos that I hoard (from BVM and other vendors) you might think I was goofy, but I'm only 36 and I don't expect to be able to get "BVM this or that" in 15 or 20 years. Or for that matter Skymaster or insert your favorite vendor. It would be nice if they all last, but can I count on that?

I read all 7 pages of this thread with interest. I think I can condense it all into a few simple statements.
1- Skymaster has come a long, long way in overall quality in the past several months.
2- BVM is already recognized for superior quality, and yes, premium pricing, but we all know we "usually" get what we pay for.
3- Skymaster has a reputation for inadequate Instructions and or plans. That has a great chance of changing immediately!
4-BVM is noted for its incredible instruction packages.
5- Skymaster and BVM combine their resources, the Modeler is as much a winner as the 2 companies are, perhaps more, since the modeler has NO financial exposure for the two companies pooling their resources! We get a better product that we can build, we get product support from perhaps the most knowledgeable Jet House on the Planet, Cheaper Shipping Costs, and a way to introduce fans from both camps to each other's products. BVM reps can now fly something a little "newer" and Skymaster guys can opt for an older and proven favorite.
6- I commend all the "Dealers" that recognize that in today's fierce economy, if they were only purchasing a couple of kits per year, it is not fair to hold back 2 aggressive companies from doing what they must to remain solvent, and active. What Dino said was not only intellegent, it was extremely truthful.

FRANK
You should have posted first, that would have just about ended this thread.
Nicely put
In this economy you have to do what you have to do, I don't think in these economic times anyone can just sit back and do nothing and hope for the best.

Hi I am Tony the owner of Jet Aces 8 RC first of all I did not call Jeff at skymaster USA he called me to let me know what my regions would be. He told me I could only sell to west Texas and to Oklahoma and that is it they at skymaster USA even set me a list of names I could not sell to here in my state of texas. I became a dealer for skymaster jet's two years ago before skymaster USA came to be. I have built up a long customer list of great customers from all over the USA Canada and Mexico. Now to be told I cannot sell to any of them but only the ones in Oklahoma and west Texas well to me that was a load of crap. So I asked Jeff what if some of my customer's out of my region still wonted to order from me because they do not like BVM. He told me I cannot sell to them at all but I could if the kit was sent to me and then to my customer's, so my customer that wonted to buy from me and not BVM can buy from me but the kit would have to be sent to me then to my customer. So my customer would have to pay a extra shipping charge to get the skymaster jet kit I find this to me unethical to do to my customers. Why should they have to pay for a extra shipping charge just because they are out of my region and wont to buy from me and not BVM that just is not right for the customer.

The customer should be able to buy from who he wonts to weather it is BVM Skymaster USA or form Jet Aces 8 RC the customer should have the choice not the three dealer telling them where they have to buy. Some people do not like BVM and will not buy from him and I know this because two of them called my yesterday and are my customer's from back east. And they are vary upset with this now they will have to go to BVM and not to the dealer of there choice well they told me they will not buy skymaster jets anymore because they do not like BVM. Why they do not like BVM I did not ask because it is none of my business but it is my business to be able to sell to them to make them happy as my customer's.

By question is' is BVM afrade of some competition that he has to take my customers away from me. He must have been hurting with the economy the way it is and that skymaster jets where less money than a BVM kit and now he gets to take my customers and have the biggest region and take my customer in east Texas too which skymaster USA sent me a list of names that I could not sell to provied to them by BVM hell I live it this state and it is not right. Competition makes this country great and we need more of it the more competition there is the better prices will be.

In short the customer should have the choice and not being told where they have to buy my customer's new they can call me 24-7 anytime day or night for help with there skymaster jet my door is always open to them for the help and support they need and still will be. And my customer's could come to me for help even if they did not buy from me even if it where some other kit than skymaster jet kit. I have been building jets for over 30 years and I have build every jet out there at one time or the other and it is a great hobby untill now that all the work I put into it for the last two years to promot Skymaster jet's is taken away from me and given to BVM.

There should not be any regions at all here in the USA the USA is not that big the customer should be able to buy from one of the three dealers of his choice what is fair is fair BVM should not have the right to take my customers no mater where they live in the USA Canada or Mexico the customer needs to have the choice where he wont to buy and where he feels he gets the best service.

So after talking with Jeff at skymaster USA yesterday and being told that I can only sell to West Texas and to Oklahoma a slap in the face. And that I could sell to customers out of my region but only if the jet kits where shipped to me then to them my customer's which they would have to pay a extra shipping charge and felling that this was not right and unethical I will not be a dealer for skymaster USA it is wrong for my customer's to have to pay double shipping just because they are not in my region.

I wont to thank all my customer's out there I am here still to help you and my door is always open to you my customers 24-7

Tony
Jet Aces 8 RC

Tony, you are correct sir. As long as you are a dealer in good standing with a manufacturer and represent thier products well there should be no reason to limit a customer base you have spent two years createing. Imagine walking into your favorite auto dealership and being told you cannot buy from them because you live too far away. Dealers gain favor from manufacturers based mostly on volume, the more you sell the less you pay, nothing wrong with that. If for instance you provide better custmer service than your competetors as I believe is the case with you than I should have the freedom to buy from you if I decide the service offsets the extra charge. When I became intrested in a Skymaster product you were highly recommened by my east coast jet flying buddies. I must say I agree with thier insight, you answered my questions completely without any hint of disdain for my lack of expirence, you offered suggestions on different aircraft and engine combinations that may better suit my sitsuation and shared your wealth of knowledge in an unrushed and friendly conversation. Compare this to your competition who politely took my order offered to respond later to some of my more detailed questions and followed within a timely manner with a quote that was more than 5% higher. For me buying from you is a no brainer. I hope that Skymaster can see the error with thier policy and return your ability to sell nationwide, I sort of had my heart set on that aircraft but Skymaster's not the only game in town.

Thanks again for all your help and good luck
Bob

Bob, you are not getting it, it's not "SKYMASTER", it's the people involved. Anyone care to prove me wrong? I will apologize if that's the case.

Senreit, Are you assigning blame to the factory or thier US distributor? Either way the brand will suffer at least one lost sale. Oh and bye the way, free HBO is about the only thing I don't get!

BVM HAVE A GREAT NAME, AND GREAT PRODUCTS, SKYMASTER gained a myth of the jets with this partnership, at a crucial moment of the economy, and BVM now, have a GREAT SCALE JETS manufacturer.
but, the old dealers, well..... [sm=sad_smile.gif] bad moment this to happen.... wild capitalism....


jose

Let me explain how this chaps me as a customer.

Almost 2 months ago worked with Skymaster and spoke with John regarding a Gen1 F-15 kit that I acquired.

My questions were:
Are the newer main gear doors compatible with the old kit ?
Are the newer turkey feathers comatible with the old kit
Is the cockpit kit compatible ?
Is the pipe the same?

I would like to order all of the above plus the gear door air kit.

He was very helpful and answered yes to all my questions asked for a shiping address and was told that Jeff would be the one to fill the order. He emailed me all of the information regarding what I needed and copied Jeff on his response.

I never heard from Jeff. So two weeks later ( I do have other things going on ) I get around to calling Jeff. He seems like a nice guy and says he'll check availablility of some of the stuff I need and he'll call me back. Two more weeks later I decide to call JetAces.

I talk to Tony for 30min or better. He says he'll call and check on availability of the things I need.
He FOLLOWS UP that afternoon to let me know that Jeff is not in today and he will find out when he gets back in.
Then this steaming pile of poo rises up and now I can't get what I need from the only guy who has ever been willing help me.

Anybody want to tell me where I can spend my money at now ?
Anybody have the above listed items used ?

Who are the people you can't sell to in Texas?
That sucks.

also, wont = want

I've been lurking on this site for a long time. It's finally time that I introduce myself, and give my two cents relative to this nonsense.

So, let's see if I understand what you are saying! If you act as a Skymaster agent, you can only have Skymaster drop ship kits to customers in your region. However, if you actually have a vested interest, ie., you have to lay out you own money and purchase a kit, you can sell it anywhere.

Sounds to me like you’re whining about losing your free-ride.

Gil

To your question here is the list of names of people I cannot sell to in East Texas and if you live in East Texas my home state I cannot sell to you ither it was given to me by Jeff at skymaster USA telling me I do not have the right to sell to you the customer if you came to me for your skymaster jet need's and that BVM has the exclusive right to sell to you Who in the hell has the right to make a choise for you the customer, you should have the right to chose the dealer you wont to buy from wheather it is BVM Skymaster USA/ RCI or Jet Aces 8 RC. This is my home state I live here and to have someone tell my I cannot sell to the people here in my state well that is not right.

Roger Spencer - Ft. Worth
Eric Hunter - Ft worth
A-1 Hobbies - Mesquite
Jose Rodreguez - Houston
Brian Gates - Arlington
Barry Raborn - Houston
Bob Price - Ceder Park
John Beran - Austin
Steven Elizey - Grand Prairie
Ray Blair - Rechmond
Jerry Kirwin - Richmond
Kirk Jensen - spring
Kevin Thoele - Spring
Bob Covish - Austin
Don Kockey - Montgomery
Ron Schwarzkopf - Ft. Worth
JT's Hobby- Arlington
John Hall - Irvine
Michael Stern - Dallas
Dawn Ellzey - Grand Prairie
Angel - Rosado - Ft Worth
Bob Beran - Austin
Jay Moorhaj - Pasadena
Phil Elting - Houston
Sean Rushing - Houston
Mike Boyce - Sugerland
RC hoby shop - Sugerland
Al Mason - Ft Worth
Kevin Elder - Houston

I am not here to offend any one on this list but you should have the right to choose who you wont to buy from to be told that I can only sell to west Texas how many jet guys are in west Texas give me a brake there is but only a hand full that might be into jets in West Texas. And to also tell me I can sell only to the Jet guys in Oklahoma and there are some but not many and the ones that are there are great people.
After spending 2 years building up a customer base all over the USA just to let BVM move in on it and get a exclusive to sell to my customer's that I have great respect for well it is just not right not right at all.

Tony
Jet Aces 8 RC

Hi Gil what I am saying is if you are out of my region and you wont a skymaster jet from my company and you do not wont to deal with BVM or skymaster USA the wearhouse were the kits are stored. If you order it from me they will not drop ship it to you and they have always done this in the past for me ship right to my customer. It will have to be shipped to me then to you' you will have to pay a extra shipping charge for the jet kit and that is not right. I have been a dealer for two years and have a lot of customer's That just deal with me. So now for them to keep dealing with me and they are not in my region West Texas and Oklahoma they will have to pay extra shipping charges to get the kit from me. What they did was cut me out and they no I could not do this to my customers have them pay a extra shipping charge because it is not right to do that to good people. And for your information there was never a free ride i worked my ass off for skymaster jet's and I was a dealer for them before slymaster USA even came into play. I always payed for the kits up fround for my customers even before there credit card cleard the bank.

Tony
jet Aces 8 RC

Hi Gilt,

To clerify what Tony was saying: He can have a kit shipped to a customer in his now reduced region directly. But for customers that he has sold to previously or new customers that want to purchase from him and not one of the other dealers, he would have to have the kit shipped to him in Texas and then ship it a second time to the customer. This will equate to twice the shipping amount from tony to a customer out of area, effectively reducing the amount of money he makes on the bird. Point being that he could not charge the customer for both shipping charges. (ethically speaking) Especially when the cost of all the kits have gone up approx. $100.00 for the privelage of having a US distributor. This cost is because of the container shipping from china to the US. Additionally the point of Skymaster USA coming into being was that they would stock the kits in a single location instead of having kits spread out all over the country. This was suppossed to give all of the dealers an equal playing field to work from. The better each dealer does in advertising and customer relations the better the sales they make. Additionally this would reduce problems for Skymaster when new kits came into production because the older designs that the individual dealers would have in stock need to be clearanced. The problem is that to get rid of an older design usually means big discounts and the dealers usually eat the loss, while skymaster runs into problems putting the new designs price wise up against the discounted older designs. An example of this happened with an ex unnamed dealer in Hi. They had to discount there stock so much to get rid of them that it actually hurt sales of the new designs for several months delaying the early sales push. So it simpifies this for both Skymaster and the dealers if its all drop shipped from one location. There is a substantial investment by the dealers in the different manufactures in the level of advertising, both web and magazine, as well as the traveling and push of products at the defferent trade shows and rallys. Plus the invested cost of the demo birds they fly. My 2 cents. I agree with you that it is all non-sense. The idea that each dealer be restricted to only a specific location to represent and then continue to give area from one dealer to another is "lutacris". I think that all of us modelers would benefit in both customer service and the bottom line with open market principles. Each dealer sells to whom ever wants to buy from them and thats it. No special pricing or restrictions for stupid reasons. Ok more like 5 cents...

Yeah I kind of see the logic behind this. Of the names I know here, they are either BVM customers or dealers, so makes since.

Hi Shok,
The point being that if these guys didn't want to buy from Tony they shouldn't have to. Even if they were in his area. Same being for us guys that are not in his area should be able to buy from him. Is the same restriction going to apply to BVM for out of area sales? Will he have to buy the kits, ship it to florida, and then ship it again to a customer in california. All of this is going to continue to drive up the prices. Its just stupid and getting out of hand.