You have to remember that only on mcmaster.com have the transposed the numbers 9462 as 9642. This was a typo done when they posted this product from loctite to mcmaster inventory. It's one and the same, just a F-up. There are other adhesives that Hyrol makes for the gun that I'll be trying and posting here. Particularly part # 1813a136 and another one I can't remember right now. It's like a Five minute aeropoxy that has the same strength as 9462. Plus, what some people don't know is that if you place aeropoxy you can heat it to 180 with a heat gun for an hour and it will cure to a 72 hour cure with no harm no foul. It's in the product literature for the adhesive. You dont' HAVE to wait.

Page number 3136 on the website

I'm sorry, but public attack is exactly what went on here. Did BVM refuse the return? I doubt it.

You should not make unfair accusations, even on these forums.

As a consumer I have the right to complain in a public forum.
I am not attacking but letting people know of my particular experience.
I will be more wiser next time I order stuff and ask for the price 1st.
Like I said it was my mistake for not asking. I was thinking like a hobbyist not a businessman.
MB

It's hard to post an negative opinion related to BVM without someone taking it as a blast against BVM. This thread and others I've seen that there are so many DIE hard BVM guys in this hobby that it's like a clan. I'm not saying BV or the company is no good mind you. I just think it's amazing that someone feels they got screwed on the cost of a bolt and supporters of BVM claim it's a blast against the company. FYI, I didn't take it that way. I'd be willing to bet you've got many BVM products and think BVM is a great company. Just in this case on some bolts, your over payed or could have or whatever for whatever reason. It's not a blast against the company, it's a blast against this transaction. Am I wrong? Don't think so. Anyway, I'm told By Bob above that in Austin there is some type of bolt company where he gets his bolts. My guess is there is some type of company like that in your town too. For me, time is an issue so I tend to order on the net. Each his own, and good luck with the new bolts.
Sean

I also anticipated responses like the above and stated in a previous post that : I know, I shouldn't be in this hobby.
I simply can not pay $9.00 for something that is .19Cents
MB

Thanks Sean,
and now I'm going flying.
MB

Support your local hobby shop or support the guy who travels the country all year long to be at your favorite jet meet. I would rather pay a little extra to ensure my favorite jet manufaturer is profitable and will have longevity.
Bv is the first to aggressively advertise Aeropoxy and popularise a great product and give us something i personally couldnt go without.
He might not have invented the UAT, but I think most heard about it through him. I wouldnt fly w/o this either.
Is this not worth anything?
Quit buying from your local hobby shop or from the jet manufacturers and save your precious pennies and see what effect it will have on them.
I'll continue to overpay for my nuts and bolts and continue to support the people that share my interest.
Guess what, pay a little more for the BV stuff and when you get ready to sell it its worth a little more.
Scott Marr

Try the Loctite E-20NS from Mcmaster #6430A29 $8.51 20 minute working time, hard in 2 hrs, non sag. Comes out white (not tan like it says). Did my entire TopCat interior with it.

Condoe,


Being a stauch Capitalist, I didn't mind paying for the BVM bolts, even though I knew they were available for less somewhere else. Of course, if I had known how much less they could be had for, maybe I'd have explored options.

There is a difference between charging a PREMIUM price and cheating someone. BV never said that his prices for bolts are the best around. Same with Aeropoxy. I appreciate the guy who identified it as Hysol, because he saved me some money. But I REALLY appreciate BV for introducing me to it, because it changed my life! Now, I LOVE gluing hinges in!

BTW, your post sounded to me like gripe about your perception of inflated prices--nothing more. Fair enough, right? It was not, for goodness sake, a bash, flame, or public attack, meant to discredit or whatever.

You know I have been on RCU for awhile and lately I have really been paying attention and have noticed something very strange. If you happen to mention anything negative about or regarding BV or his product or one particular turbine manufacturer (who shall remained unnamed) you as the poster should expect to get blasted.
I am not saying it is right, but it is something that happens. Hell the post about the kingcat and the 160 mishap was taken off the forum incredibly fast. The official word on why was that he (the moderator) did not want to attract AMA attention to us by speaking of a fire, but the post titled turbine related fires with a huge fire in the first shot was allowed to exist. Yes I know it was not a turbine that crashed but still it is the same type of deal, do we want to draw attention to ourselves by putting the words turbine and fire in the same sentence? Not to mention as the heading of a post.
I too support BVM by buying his kits and products, but am I going to purposely pay his inflated prices for things I can get at 50% of his cost? NO! I don't pay unneccessary markups for anything else in my life, so why should I start with jets.

I expect to be keel hauled for what I just said but it had to be said.

Patrick.

Implying in one of his posts that he was cheated by BVM, is, IMO, an attack. There is no substantiation to make that claim.

I have no problem with griping about prices, or with trying to stretch your hobby dollar. If someone posts where to get the same thing cheaper, great! But to imply that a company has cheated you when you didn't check the price beforehand is unfair. Particularly when that company accepts the return of the product and refunds your money.

And are you sure you're getting the same bolt? I'm really not that familiar with that item, but maybe it is heat treated differently then the bolts you are buying elsewhere. Soft bolts will wear quickly in the socket due to the starting wand.

but as I remember form my old DF days, these bolts were not available off the shelf. I know cause I looked.

The head has to be exteremly hard to withstand the torque of starting witht he somewhat sever angularity associated with some of the installs.

And it you round off the bolt enough to have a problem getting the bolt out of your fan, your would pay the 9 bucks in a heartbeat to avoid the hassle.

I give up!

If anyone is interested, some friends of mine and I are compiling a list of several of the products that overpriced manufacturers and other resellersare selling at the ridiculously high prices, and alternative sources for these which offer the same or better items at far better prices. We will only be listing where the savings are significant (30% savings or more) If anyone has any product or item sources you are aware of, please email or PM me so i can add these to my list.

We are not looking to list any unique items that a particular manufacturer has specifically developed, or patented. Bu the $9.00 bolt the the $60 UAT are perfect types of examples for the list.

The list will also include links to reasonably priced hobby retailers.

We will post the source lists on an upcoming web site as wel as links on RCU.


Wojtek Iwanczyk
VoyTech R.C

Won't be keel hauled by me. I call it like I see it. Turns off a lot of people, not sure why. If you read this thread carefully, you'll see some "Cover your ass" statements being made. I'm not sure why the jet community is "elitist". I have speculations. For one thing, it takes a lot of balls to put 5 thousand or more into a toy plane and send it shooting towards the sky. So cockiness and ego are definitely involved.

Another thing is, no one wants to look stupid. And the truth is, while most of the jet guys are fairly intelligent ( I say this because dumb people in general don't make enough money to splurge on this hobby [on steroids]) none of us know everything there is to know about how all this crap comes together.

Someone is good at painting and someone is generally good at everything and someone is good at Thrust Vectoring and someone is good at just putting together stuff that flies and and someone is good at finding bargains We can't all know it all. And no knowledge equals fear sometimes. So what some people "Know" is only what someone tells them. So speculation and assumptions become the "knowledge". Is the bolt the "same"? I don’t know. There is no way that any bolt for that application has been specially treated above and beyond hardened for that application. Otherwise it would be made of a different material such as stainless or better. While on that, I can say, a stainless bolt would probably hold up better and cost about .80 a bolt. That’s speculation. Go find out for the truth. It’s out there.

My point is that some people say it has to be a certain way, because that’s what they were told and they don’t “really know”. I’m so new in this hobby (and consider myself a fairly sharp person) so I question everything and everybody to the point of alienation cause if they don’t know and they say something, I want to know who told them so I can ask that person. Cause all I know is I DON’T REALLY KNOW. Unless I’ve run the tests myself, or bought the product myself and used it. I can’t speculate as to why a BV kit is $4,000.00. I’m told they are the best fitting, easiest to put together and all the other blah blah reasons. Even told the fly awesome awesome. That’s great. If that’s the case, I guess that’s why there are so many of them out there.

Out of my price range, so I fly a $500.00 ROO and a $1,200 ISOBAR. Still having fun though!! And that’s my main goal. I love this S—t!! ALL OF IT!

.

All this BVM crap kills me! If someone mentions a problem that has to do with BVM, it becomes a full blown flame war. Do I own a BVM jet, no, do I want one, hell yes, when I can afford one. I totally understand the loyalty to a manufacturer whether it be a car, turbine, or kit manufacturer, but just because you own one of these does not make you any better a person than the next guy, although some seem to think different. I would like to think that we are all flying these jets for a common reason, to have fun, so everyone change your diapers and lets burn some jet fuel!

Chris

Well Said!!

I have an active website where I'll be glad to host if you're not already ready to go. I can even setup a database, or an excel spreadsheet. Which format do you want me to start putting mine in? I think excel would be best cause everyone's got it and it's easy to download and sort from a website? What are your thoughts? Also, I'm not sure it's fair to refer to a clone of a UAT as a UAT. There may be legal issues for the maker of a clone if we commonly refer the cloned device as the possible trademark. I know that's BS kind of stuff, but it could mean real legal consequences.

It's depressing to see what this forum has become. :disappoin

It doesn't surprise me why some of the most knowledgeable in the field refuse to post here.....

Todd

Well, I can certainly see your point. But for those that are left here to fend for themselves.............

There is no question in my mind that this is a FIRST RATE FORUM, you just have to weed through some of the BS to get at the good information.

Then again, even as little time as I've been on RCU, I've seen a degradation in volume of really good questions.

When you've got all these active minds in one place just waiting to toss in opinions, thoughts, experiances etc. and nothing really substantial to do

You end up with.......................

xcel would be perfect, and would be easy to port into diferent web views. All products will be generically referenced, such as header tank, nuts, wheels , bolts. I am debating if however there will be a "comparable to" section in the list. Thanx for the offer on the web space, but i already have over a gig of hosting space and am deploying my web site shortly ...

brg,

Wojtek

Another thing is, no one wants to look stupid. And the truth is, while most of the jet guys are fairly intelligent ( I say this because dumb people in general don't make enough money to splurge on this hobby [on steroids]) none of us know everything there is to know about how all this crap comes together.


Sean,
I don't know about this. After crashing 5-10k jet to the ground.
Let see what other peoples not related to hobby thinks about us.
My friends call me nuts to play around with this expensive toys.
I don't thinks jets pliot are that intelligent. I thinks of them as jets junky. And I'm is one them. One jets is never enough. Got to have them all.
Tam

That's pretty funny TAM. I guess we're all part of the JET JUNKIE crowd here.

Wow it sure does not show :-)

So you think a stainless bolt would be better? Why?

Have you ever tried to remove a Viojett rotor bolt that has rounded off inside?