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New engine for Mad Force?

Old 03-29-2016, 03:24 AM
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Default New engine for Mad Force?

Hi, guys!
I decided to finally change my 7 years old GX21 due to bearings/con rod failure and I'm down to three option:
1. Kyosho KE25, muffler/manifold included - around $135 shipped to Romania and almost sure another 20% in duties.
2. LRP .28 spec 3 - $150 shipped and I'll need at least a $15-20 manifold IF I can use my old Kyosho pipe
3. A cheap EG Sport .28 from Hobbyking, manifold included - around $90 shipped. Also, IF I can use my old Kyosho pipe!

I do need to buy a new manifold since the old one does not have the 16mm (?) outlet for exhaust, but that rectangular outlet with two screws.
Now, I know Kyosho deliver all new monster trucks with KE25 and I suppose they do this for a good reason: all those plastic gears which I believe will not resist to a .28 engine. Of course, I can use it with a restrictor on the air inlet to tame it down if I'll change the gears too often Does anybody around here owed both Kyosho and LRP engines? Is KE25 up to its job? What would you buy? Of course, more or less on a budget.
Old 03-29-2016, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Tzicul
Hi, guys!
I decided to finally change my 7 years old GX21 due to bearings/con rod failure and I'm down to three option:
1. Kyosho KE25, muffler/manifold included - around $135 shipped to Romania and almost sure another 20% in duties.
2. LRP .28 spec 3 - $150 shipped and I'll need at least a $15-20 manifold IF I can use my old Kyosho pipe
3. A cheap EG Sport .28 from Hobbyking, manifold included - around $90 shipped. Also, IF I can use my old Kyosho pipe!

I do need to buy a new manifold since the old one does not have the 16mm (?) outlet for exhaust, but that rectangular outlet with two screws.
Now, I know Kyosho deliver all new monster trucks with KE25 and I suppose they do this for a good reason: all those plastic gears which I believe will not resist to a .28 engine. Of course, I can use it with a restrictor on the air inlet to tame it down if I'll change the gears too often Does anybody around here owed both Kyosho and LRP engines? Is KE25 up to its job? What would you buy? Of course, more or less on a budget.
You should be fine with either one of those engines!
You need to watch out for the demensions of the block & crankshaft length.
The Lrp is a bad boy power house ,becareful of the power on that one!
Old 04-03-2016, 11:11 PM
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I own both the LRP engine in a different truck and the new Kyosho Mad Force with the KE .25. Both are great engines so far, about a gallon through each and they actually seem to get more powerful. Both tune very easily and hold a tune very well. Power is night and day, though. The T Maxx my LRP is in is running steel everywhere I can in the driveline to hold out to it. When I first built the truck, it had a plastic center front shaft and all the rest were steel. That plastic shaft lasted about 5 minutes, then both U-joints gave out. It has mounds of torque, and very high top end too. I feel it would be too much for the Mad Force to handle and you'd be blowing gears and probably diffs every run. The KE .25 is much more tame in comparison, but still enough to do wheelies on command. And when the truck hits 3rd gear, hold on! The stock pipe and manifold are pretty nice, too. I think they are just standard 1/8 buggy pipes, but they work well.
Old 04-04-2016, 02:36 AM
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I feel the same about the LRP, too much for car's plastic gears. I decided to repair the old GX21 for the moment, but I will order KE25 in mid summer, probably. I don't know if the original .21 pipe will work on the .25 motor, what do you say? Well, of course, after I will order a new manifold.
Old 04-05-2016, 12:46 AM
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Well, most of the time if the pipe is made for a .21 engine I'd say it will work with the .25. In my experience, pipes seem to have a fairly wide range of engines they work with, and usually it's grouped by block size. A pipe made for the TRX 2.5 will also work with the TRX 3.3. My THS Savage pipe on my LRP works for .25-.28 sized engines. If it seems to be holding it back, you could bore out the stinger a mm or two with a drill. I've done that before with RTR pipes. I looked up the pipe for the GX .21, and it looks close to the same size as the one that comes with the KE .25, so you should be OK. You could always get the .25 pipe later if the original isn't working well with it, or find an aftermarket buggy pipe. You might be able to luck out and find one for cheap or even one with the engine on one of the Ebay chop shops. guys buy an RTR truck and part it out for a profit. I've seen that pipe with header and springs go for as low as $16 US before. I get most my parts for the Mad Force off those chop shops.

Edit: I looked at my parts list for the Mad Force, and the pipe the new Mad Force uses is the same as the one used on the KE .25 powered Inferno buggy and is also used in the FO-XX (Same basic truck as the Mad Force), #IF242B. So You could look for those vehicles parts on Ebay as well.

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Old 04-05-2016, 04:33 AM
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I noticed that GX21's pipe look like my LST's pipe, dimension wise. No evident differences. On the other hand, they both looks completely different than my Tamiya's .15 pipe which is visible smaller. You are probably right when you say they are grouped by block size. Well, except the ones that you pay $100+ for I suppose I'll buy that $16 set pipe and manifold (since I'll need one anyway) when the time will come
Old 04-05-2016, 05:29 AM
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The big difference between small block pipes and big block pipes is mainly the overall size of the pipe. The more minute and unseen details are the shape of the pipe inside. The insides can differ greatly between any two pipes. The other small detail is the I.D of the stinger (exhaust outlet). Generally there are smaller pipes for .09-.12 engines (smaller stinger I.D), .15-.20 engines, and .21-.32 basically. The .09-.12 pipes and the .15-.20 pipes are usually close to the same size externally.
Old 04-05-2016, 05:44 AM
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I know, pipes made specially for off road aka more torque are more rounded and pipes for on road aka high speed/revs are a little more elongated. It has something to do with the necessary time for the shock wave to return to the engine and push the fresh fuel back into the cylinder.
Old 04-06-2016, 02:00 AM
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Exactly right! 2 strokes depend on the exhaust for almost all of their performance potential. I've run both longer and shorter pipes on different engines over the years and there is a difference between them. I think a longer, larger pipe is better for torque and a shorter, narrower one is for top speed. I could be wrong there though. I've only ever bought a few aftermarket systems, mostly from THS. But I do remember putting an MIP stinger exhaust on my old gen 1 .15 T Maxx once upon a time when it still ran and was in one piece. It seemed to have the same power down low as the Traxxas blue one I had before, but a noticeable increase in top end power and RPM was there. That pipe had a longer header, but the pipe itself was a few mm shorter and about half as wide as the one it replaced. It gets even more complicated when you introduce multiple chambers and tunable like the old CVEC pipes had and an automatic adjusting chamber like the BUKU ones had. Going with the one that came with the engine usually gives a good balance of both torque and top end. I am still considering throwing a torque tuned pipe on my Kyosho like a Jammin JP-1 to coax a little more torque out of it. The massive THS Savage pipe on my LRP .28 is insane! It's tuned much richer than most run that engine at (Tuned to average settings it was way too lean) and combined with 30% Bones fuel it just flies! But, that combo is also extremely fuel hungry and louder than hell

Here's a good pic of it. It is a good inch or so longer than the one on the Kyosho and quite a bit wider, too. That's on an extended chassis and I still had a hard time fitting it around the receiver box hahaha.
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Old 04-07-2016, 11:31 PM
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Well, it seems I messed things up, it's exactly the other way around. Long pipe for torque and rounder for speed


Torque ................................ Speed


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Old 04-08-2016, 01:17 AM
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Ah yes I think you're right now that I look at it again. The middle one on the torque side looks almost identical to the stock one on the Mad Force. The Mad Force has a very long header though, much longer than the ones pictured. Here's one of the go to pipes many guys recommend for torque in .21 and up engines. Looks very similar to stock, but with a 1 piece design and a shorter header. I've also heard the Dynamite 086 is a killer torque pipe too and a bit cheaper than the Jammin is.
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Old 04-08-2016, 02:42 AM
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I might be so, but, if you ask me, I would choose Dynamite 053 instead of 086 for a monster truck if you want more torque at low revs. Amain lists both of them as off-road pipes, probably the difference is on what type of car you install on and what type of terrain you are running on. I know I would choose 053 for my needs, especially steep climbing over the hills
Old 04-08-2016, 03:28 AM
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Generally, single chamber pipes will aid the low to mid part of the powerband where multi-chamber systems are for mid to high rpm power. The shorter the whole system (header, coupler, pipe) is, the higher the rpm potential. If the engine doesn't have enough exhaust timing though, too short of a "system" will have erratic running behavior. Short system - fast pressure wave return - high exhaust timing. Long system - slower wave return - lower exhaust timing. Generally. Some multi chamber pipes work a bit different though.

FWIW, most guys with monster trucks will opt for an 086 variant as the engines for monster trucks often have a decent low end to start with. An 086 won't hurt the bottom end much, but helps the top end a bit. On some engines it helps a lot. It is said that an Ofna 086 and the Dynamite 086 are very different pipes with the Dynamite being the better of the two. The barn burner pipe to have is a Novarossi 51021/9886. That is the pipe that many other 086 variants are based from. The Novarossi 9853 is said to be 98% "close enough" to the 9886.
Old 04-08-2016, 04:18 AM
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Always ready to learn new things from people smarter than me!
Old 04-08-2016, 04:43 AM
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Very interesting that, at least on Novarossi's pipes, you can use the same pipe with different headers to obtain different behaviors. Which make sense since, as you said, the length of the entire system is important, not only the length of the pipe.

"This is the Novarossi 9853 'Super Strong' polished racing pipe (no manifold). This is the one piece variety and requires an off-road manifold, which attaches to the tuned pipe using three small springs (not included). This pipe is designed for excellent bottom end/mid range performance and is a great pipe to bring the bottom end to life on Novarossi 421B engines. This pipe is an excellent choice for any engine that works well with a 053 pipe. The 41005 header is an excellent choice for this pipe for strong bottom end power delivery, while the 41001 header is recommended for better mid-range/top end performance."
Old 04-13-2016, 01:39 AM
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I've always heard Nova Rossi pipes are awesome. But I've always been a little too cheap to try one out, same with the Jammin ones. Dynamite and THS have done well in my trucks over the years for bang for the buck set ups. Good info here, I'm learning quite a lot! It makes sense now why that MIP pipe I have made my old Maxx feel so much different wide out than the Traxxas tuned one did. With the Mad Force being a fairly light truck for it's size, a mid range pipe would probably do wonders in it. Mine flips onto it's lid often engough as it is now, I can only imagine what what it would do with a Nova Rossi torque set up!
Old 04-20-2016, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
Generally, single chamber pipes will aid the low to mid part of the powerband where multi-chamber systems are for mid to high rpm power. The shorter the whole system (header, coupler, pipe) is, the higher the rpm potential. If the engine doesn't have enough exhaust timing though, too short of a "system" will have erratic running behavior. Short system - fast pressure wave return - high exhaust timing. Long system - slower wave return - lower exhaust timing. Generally. Some multi chamber pipes work a bit different though.

FWIW, most guys with monster trucks will opt for an 086 variant as the engines for monster trucks often have a decent low end to start with. An 086 won't hurt the bottom end much, but helps the top end a bit. On some engines it helps a lot. It is said that an Ofna 086 and the Dynamite 086 are very different pipes with the Dynamite being the better of the two. The barn burner pipe to have is a Novarossi 51021/9886. That is the pipe that many other 086 variants are based from. The Novarossi 9853 is said to be 98% "close enough" to the 9886.


41021 is bad....tamest of all Nova manifolds....best on the 9886 is the 41991, second best is 41033
Old 04-20-2016, 02:48 AM
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Originally Posted by supertib
41021 is bad....tamest of all Nova manifolds....best on the 9886 is the 41991, second best is 41033
I never gave a part number for a manifold. 51021 is the part number for the 9886 pipe.
Old 04-20-2016, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by 1QwkSport2.5r
I never gave a part number for a manifold. 51021 is the part number for the 9886 pipe.

Doh ! Sorry guy ! my brain read 41021 manifold !
Old 04-20-2016, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by supertib
Doh ! Sorry guy ! my brain read 41021 manifold !
That's what I figured. It's all good.

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