Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
12-03-2011, 01:01 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
I'm currently building a stab and wing for Mike Mueller and thought I could photo document the build process here. Mike has a Mystic fuse from Todd Schmidt and we are going to put a Spark anhedral stab and a new - never flown - elliptical wing on the plane, kit bashing at it's best. I'm not really good at taking pictures when a build is in progress, really slows everything down, but will try to do my best here. If anyone has any questions or wants to see something specific to the build please let me know and I will attempt to provide a response.
I started with the stab last night for a couple of hours and did the same earlier today. Below are the plans for the stab and some pictures.
Dave Snow
Added 12-7-2011
stab sheeting: 3/32" not the 1/16" as noted in the stab plan
4"x36" long sheeting weights = 14 to 16 grams each for best results
I started with the stab last night for a couple of hours and did the same earlier today. Below are the plans for the stab and some pictures.
Dave Snow
Added 12-7-2011
stab sheeting: 3/32" not the 1/16" as noted in the stab plan
4"x36" long sheeting weights = 14 to 16 grams each for best results
12-03-2011, 04:41 PM
#4
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Mike gave me the wood and some other goodies today so I could get started on the skins and socket installation for the stab. All the wood was weighed and then divided into three groups: one for each wing panel and one for the stab panels. The three sheets for the stab panels had the edges straightened, sanded and then glued together. I then made some paper sockets for the stab tube and glued them into each panel, these will set for several hours for the Poly-U glue to set.
Dave Snow
Dave Snow
12-04-2011, 01:25 PM
#8
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Some pictures of finishing the stab skins, cleaning up the socket installation and gluing the bottom skin to one panel. When sheeting with the jigs it's best to use a piece of poster board between the skin and jig, this will help reduce any denting of the skin during the pressing of the skin/frame assembly. Also use a sheet of plastic between the jig and frame otherwise the two could be glued together. After about 4 hours for the glue to set the second panel will be pressed using the same jigs.
Dave Snow
Dave Snow
12-04-2011, 02:16 PM
#11
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Hi Jason, at first the stabs were replacements for existing stabs so the socket needed to match the exact tube size of the plane and this was the best way that I could see doing it. You can build the panels either way but I still like the paper because it gives a better fit to the tube, no slop. I've also done/do paper sockets for the wing panels and that's more due to availability of the sockets but it does save some weight. Mike gave me the socket with the wing tube so I do not need to make one.
Dave
Dave
12-04-2011, 03:49 PM
#13
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Looking forward to seeing the elliptical wing. Balsa really has amazing ability to form around compound curves.
I remember my father building a 70s vintage pattern plane dressed as a Spitfire. I was too young to appreciate how he cut the foam cores or skinned the elliptical wings, but it must have been with some neat tricks.
Dan
I remember my father building a 70s vintage pattern plane dressed as a Spitfire. I was too young to appreciate how he cut the foam cores or skinned the elliptical wings, but it must have been with some neat tricks.
Dan
12-04-2011, 06:16 PM
#14
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Hi Dan, I think the wood built-up wings have more possibilities in wing type design than foam; your dad must have been very talented to make a foam elliptical wing. I've already built my elliptical wing panels and the hardest part was rounding the leading edge, the jigs make alignment and sheeting relatively easy.
After about 5 hours the stab panel was pulled and the other panel is in the press now. Here are several pictures; the Poly-U glue has expanded around the spars and ribs, a hole near the tip is cut through the skin to locate the waste portion when the elevator is cut off - a leading edge will be attached to the elevator portion just like in a foam wing.
Dave
After about 5 hours the stab panel was pulled and the other panel is in the press now. Here are several pictures; the Poly-U glue has expanded around the spars and ribs, a hole near the tip is cut through the skin to locate the waste portion when the elevator is cut off - a leading edge will be attached to the elevator portion just like in a foam wing.
Dave
12-05-2011, 10:15 AM
#16
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RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Dave I'm just finishing the stabs I got from you and can say that they are very light and were actually fun to build. The original panels were 5.35 and 5.1 oz each and the new panels are tracking to be close to 3.5oz finished with the servo.
I would like to consider replacing the Integral wings but am not convinced that I should completly change to the Spark wing due to the additional effort to retune the plane.
These kist are very well thought out and not too difficult to build. It would great if you considered direct replacements panels....I would sign up for a set of Integral wings for sure!!
Colin.
I would like to consider replacing the Integral wings but am not convinced that I should completly change to the Spark wing due to the additional effort to retune the plane.
These kist are very well thought out and not too difficult to build. It would great if you considered direct replacements panels....I would sign up for a set of Integral wings for sure!!
Colin.
12-05-2011, 12:10 PM
#17
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Thanks Todd, I saw the fuse you did for Mike and it looked beautiful, this should be an interesting plane once finished.
Hi Colin, Mark Atwood really pushed me hard to get the wings and then stabs to build easier than the first version without the jigs and no interlocking spars/ribs, these are much easier to build. I am glad you had a good experience building the stabs and that’s a big weight savings especially at the back of the plane. You may need to move the motor battery back some, this should help make the plane fly even better by concentrating the weight near the cg of the plane. I do have a PassPort/Visa wing that is similar to the Integral but will think about doing a copy of the Integral, actually I like the Xigris wing better than the Integral - it's thinner and should snap better than the thicker Integral wing.
Here are both panels with the bottom skin glued on, the mounting for the elevator servos, adding doublers for the hinge and then placing glue on the ribs/spars to sheet the top of the panel. I will let the panel set in the jig for a minimum of 6 hours then lay up the second panel in the jigs.
Dave
Hi Colin, Mark Atwood really pushed me hard to get the wings and then stabs to build easier than the first version without the jigs and no interlocking spars/ribs, these are much easier to build. I am glad you had a good experience building the stabs and that’s a big weight savings especially at the back of the plane. You may need to move the motor battery back some, this should help make the plane fly even better by concentrating the weight near the cg of the plane. I do have a PassPort/Visa wing that is similar to the Integral but will think about doing a copy of the Integral, actually I like the Xigris wing better than the Integral - it's thinner and should snap better than the thicker Integral wing.
Here are both panels with the bottom skin glued on, the mounting for the elevator servos, adding doublers for the hinge and then placing glue on the ribs/spars to sheet the top of the panel. I will let the panel set in the jig for a minimum of 6 hours then lay up the second panel in the jigs.
Dave
12-05-2011, 01:23 PM
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RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Dave, the Int wing snaps pretty well despite being ridiculously heavy....I can't tell that the Xigris airfoil is significanly better. I'm pretty sure that a light Int wing will be every bit as good as the Xigris. In fact I'm starting to think that the thicker wing is what we want for P13. I find the heavy Int easier to manage speed during P13 than the signifcantly lighter Xigris....I believe the wing is the main reason as I can't really find other sources of drag between these two designs.
A direct/reverse Engineered Int wing will allow 'drop in' to old Int with few to no changes.
If there is anything I can do to help encourage you in that direction just let me know.
Colin.
A direct/reverse Engineered Int wing will allow 'drop in' to old Int with few to no changes.
If there is anything I can do to help encourage you in that direction just let me know.
Colin.
12-05-2011, 08:55 PM
#19
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
The humidity in the house must be a little higher than normal because the Poly-U glue was set in about 5 hours and I was able to get both top skins glued on today. After removing from the jigs the leading edges and tips were sanded, panels sized to each other and the 1/4" leading glued and taped on.
Dave
Dave
12-06-2011, 06:17 PM
#22
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Today the leading edges was sanded, tips glued on, tips sanded, leading edges and tips rounded, elevators cut from panel, trailing edge of panel / leading face of elevator sanded and leading edge of elevator glued on.
Dave
Dave
12-07-2011, 06:00 PM
#25
Thread Starter
RE: Building a built-up pattern stab and wing
Shaping leading edge of elevators, hinging elevators, installing hard points with pilot hole, installing adjusters onto root ribs, final panel weights. These were built with average to heavy wood (19/20 gram per sheet) that Mike supplied, I anticipate a finished ready to fly weight (minus elevator servo) of 3.5 oz or less and this is very similar to other stabs that I've built and tell builders to expect.
Stab build finished, the wing will start shortly.
Dave
Stab build finished, the wing will start shortly.
Dave
