Correct on the triangle except the angle is a 45.

Verne Koester

Obviously, I was yankin your chain, and you're a good sport! What you meant was, that the sampling here on RCU is too small to reflect what the greater pattern population actually feels about sequences. And I agree with that.... some here just troll for a place to interact with someone, anyone, and are not pattern pilots at all. Or, not any more. I would love for people here to identify themselves by name, not screen name, and mention what class they fly in addition to whether or not they are active. Many times, we wind up arguing for the sake of argument.

Those people just muddy the waters. On the other hand, we've had some good discussions. I like the inclusion of the eight sided loop, personally..... the committee is working hard for all of us, can't wait to see the final report to the Board.

Brian Clemmons, currently flying Masters, last contest was May 5, 2012 (sorry Jetero, had the flu, see all in Georgetown?)

Then it cannot be a 120 degree push. It would be a 135 degree push back to upright/level. But I've got it now. Got twisted up recalling my 5th Grade Geometry teacher!!

Sorry, didn't catch your 120 degree push. For someone as mathematically challenged as I am, "push to level" works better. That being said, the angle is a 45. Most of the newer sequences have avoided 60 degree angles because they're too hard to judge for both the pilot and the judges. Obviously, the 6-sided loop is an exception, one of the reasons I think the 8-sided is a better choice.

Verne Koester

Not sure why I got it in my head that it was an equilateral triangle. I know full well the two sides of the triangle loops are 45 lines. Something about the "half" triangle threw me for a loop (well, half a loop).

Fair enough. Dana Beaton, AMA & NSRCA member in D1, second season flying pattern contests, Sportsman, last contest 19 May 2012 in Jackson, NJ. And now back to your regularly scheduled programming LOL!

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Hello everyone. My name is Keith Hoard, and I'm an alocholic . . . I haven't had a drink in over 12 hours . . .
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Wait, this is the AA meeting, right?
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Deleted by me [&:]

Sorry, not AA meeting.

Hello all, My name is Guillermo Meza and I'm a patter-holic. Last time I flew was sportsman at the Jetero Pattern competition.

Happy Landings

Matt Frederick, pointed out of Advanced at the Jetero contest, will be moving to Masters next year.

Rene Grebe, flying Advance in Distric 6, last contest New Berlin, next Georgetown and to the Nats.

The fact that AMA pattern is not willimg to include integrated rolls as we progress in class is leaving us in the last century. We need progress in AMA pattern.

Regards,

The fact that AMA pattern is not willimg to include integrated rolls as we progress in class is leaving us in the last century. We need progress in AMA pattern.

Regards,

The fact that AMA pattern is not willimg to include integrated rolls as we progress in class is leaving us in the last century. We need progress in AMA pattern.

Regards,

I am struck by the huge difference between the pattern and IMAC sequences. Their Sportsman Sequence is not much, if any, easier than the pattern Advanced. Yes, they only fly 10 figures, but they pack a lot into them!! It has a 1-3/4 turn spin with a cross box exit, a positive snap on a 45 downline (part of a lay down humpty), an integrated roll across the top of an inside loop and so on.

http://www.mini-iac.com/Portals/0/Do..._Sportsman.pdf

Just sort of interesting to see how the two groups view their sequence development.

BTW - I've flown the latest proposed Advanced sequence a bit. I like it. It flows very nicely. An avalanche would still be nice, but the 8-sided loop is a fun replacement.

Yeah, I'm wanting to try some IMAC this year. I feel like I needed the 3-4 years of pattern practice to prepare for their Basic schedule.

Think about that, they have a spin in their Basic and pattern does not see a spin until Advanced!!! I guess until you are flying all perfect 10s there really is no point in arguing for more complex sequences!!!

IMAC intermidate includes 1/4 rolling circle. FAI P includes cuban with integrated roll
s on top. It apperas that AMA pattern is getting behind.

2 seperate entities. Doesn't really matter what IMAC does compared to pattern.

What about FAI - F3a pattern? We need to start to include integrated rolling in AMA pattern. It just will take time. I see us copying the cuban 8 with integrated rolls in the near future. I just wish that we do it sooner and not just taking it from FAI.

Don't look at what IMAC does as correct or incorrect. They're different entities, and only share aerobatic maneuvers as their core. I believe IMAC is doing it right from the standpoint of shorter sequences for ALL classes, but that has had a secondary effect that to increase difficulty requires putting so many elements into each maneuver that the maneuvers become incredibly hard to judge accurately.

As far as the proposed Masters sequence, Tony hits the nail right on the head with respect to placing maneuvers in optimal position for flying and judging. #16 is going to be VERY high in the box, making it incredibly hard to see by both pilot and judge because of the need for #17's inside loop segment. #17 is then going to be a HUGE maneuver in order to make it look decent, which will in effect squeeze #16 into a smaller space in order to not fly #17 out of the box.

My suggestion would be:

Change #15 to be a figure 9 (looping at the top) to bring the exit line down lower.
Change #17 to be a 1/2 outside loop w/rolling segments at entry and exit.

It's a real shame you can't use integrated rolls in looping segments in AMA, because this would be a perfect location for a 1/2 loop w/integrated 1 roll.

I agree with Doug. What it takes to start to include integrated loops in AMA. I think it is good time.