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C-ARF Integral with DLE35RA

Old 04-26-2015, 03:17 AM
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marrinersgarage
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Default C-ARF Integral with DLE35RA

Hi All,

after finishing off our first season of pattern last year flying a 48" Vanquish we decided to step up to something bigger.

We obtained a Comp ARF Integral from one of the local competitors (we are in Adelaide, South Australia) and inspired in part by MTK's posts on gas engines in pattern planes and keen to try out our first petrol plane we decided to pair it with the DLE35RA, mostly due to thinking it would be easier to work with the rear exit exhaust.

we got an Aeroslave carbon pipe with the plane and hooked that up with a custom manifold. We followed MTK's guide on the diy soft mount which seems to be doing the job so far (after two attempts to build it right ). Also made an exhaust joiner similar to MTK's after blowing through a couple of silicon hoses again this looks to be holding up well, couldn't find the ceramic sleeve so instead used exhaust header wrap with the permatex ultra copper silicone.

currently we are running a 19x10 Sail prop (think this might be the same as a Xoar). RPM on the ground is about 6900 but according to the telemetry this is heading up to 9000 in the air (not sure how accurate this is, seems a big jump to me). Not sure if this is a bit high and if a prop change is needed and is quiet at low revs but gets a bit noisy at the high end. Its probably only had around 3 litres through it so far though I think we are getting close on the needle settings.

Its a bit overweight at the moment at 5.5kgs but we have over-engineered a bit as there are a number of 'first times' for us on this plane plus the telemetry gear so I think theres potential to make weight. At this point given that we fly sportsman and (in Australia) the weight limit does not apply we haven't worried about it so far.

So far its meeting my design goal of allowing us to get in longer flights for more practice time with two sportsman sequences done with less than half a tank of fuel (500cc again bigger than needed). Now I just need to get a heap of time on the sticks and prove the move up was worth it!

cheers,

Dave

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Last edited by marrinersgarage; 05-12-2015 at 03:55 AM. Reason: added pictures
Old 04-27-2015, 02:32 AM
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a couple of the telemetry charts 1. ground running 2. flight

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Old 04-27-2015, 08:36 AM
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Very good guys!

I also used a 19x10 laminated woodie on my DLE35R. I used an ESComposites 40G pipe on mine and set the length to 27" from center of head to the reflector inside the pipe, following the curved header. The AEROslaves pipe was for glow engines with the baffle set 3" shorter than the ESComposites gas pipes. That just means that a 3" longer header pipe is needed. The Integral may not have the pipe length necessary.

Point being in the air unloaded, the 9K rpm with the short pipe sounds about right. Let me suggest that you lengthen a couple inches to reduce the jump and the sensitivity. Powerwise it has more than enough for a 12 lb airplane.
Old 05-07-2015, 03:14 AM
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marrinersgarage
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Had our second comp with the plane last weekend and all went well. Weather conditions were near perfect and I managed to get my second promotion point, one more to go!

Have attached some more telemetry files, I was trying to work on my throttle control as the day progressed i was using less revs, think there is more improvement in that area to come though. Also having trouble getting the idle to come down for landing so need to investigate that further.
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Old 05-07-2015, 08:04 AM
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That's a common ailment for slightly lean low end. Fatten it up slightly, less than 1/8 turn on the LS needle only. It should settle in quickly. Another way to tell if your low end is slightly lean is a slight hesitation when gunning the throttle. In fact, if LS needle is set too lean, the engine will not transition and die.

There should be no hesitation. Remember the carb adjustments are a bit different than glow.

Yet another way to tell is to look at the spark plug. If the element is grayish white, it's lean. Tan and dry is what you are after. Dark brown and a bit wet, too fat
Old 05-11-2015, 09:42 PM
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Hello Dave . What about power and reliability ?

Regards
Old 05-12-2015, 03:50 AM
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marrinersgarage
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Hi Enrique,

I've only had about 25 flights so far but no issues with reliability to this point (only one deadstick and that was due to playing around with the idle settings and going too low). I'm only flying sportsman but so far the power seems more than adequate.

Dave
Old 05-12-2015, 05:04 PM
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Thanks Dave.

Please keep posting . Nice to know about this project !
Old 06-08-2015, 04:52 AM
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Just got back from my third contest with this plane, went well and got my final promotion point so up to Advanced at the next one! seems to be struggling a little for power at the top of the big loops so not sure if we are running a bit lean but changed out the dle spark plug for an ngk and it didnt look too lean. Am planning to richen it up a touch and do some more testing along with trying out a longer pipe length. Other area for experimenting is a few of the more experienced guys suggested the wooden prop sounded a bit noisy and inefficient so might be looking to change but not sure what to so any suggestions appreciated.

Update on the soft mount and exhaust joiner as well is that we are about 35 flights in and no signs yet of any damage or wear so we are happy with that.
Old 06-08-2015, 09:01 PM
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Enrique-F3A
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Hello Dave,

Do you know if someone in your area is using the OS GT33 engine for acrobatic purpose with good results ? . Do you plan to use de DLE for the advance schedule, do you think it will have sufficient power to perform properly, have you already tried it ?

Regards

Enrique
Old 06-09-2015, 03:08 AM
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I know of a couple of people here in Australia looking to try the OS GT33 but none local to me. I havent tried the Advanced sequence yet but I think the DLE will be fine power wise with that schedule once i get the tuning sorted.
Old 06-09-2015, 04:14 AM
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Thanks Dave.

Please keep posting. I want to move to gasoline, I am evaluaiting varios engines

Enrique
Old 06-09-2015, 06:28 AM
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Hey Dave,

Try an APC prop. They are very efficient and pretty much the bench mark for IC pattern props. The only downside is they are heavy. If you can, reduce weight in other areas to make up for it.
Old 06-09-2015, 02:40 PM
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marrinersgarage
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The only problem with the APC props is the dle has a 4 bolt prop adapter and i'm not sure that they have enough material to drill the holes in, are there any in particular that would suit?
Old 06-09-2015, 10:15 PM
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Can you convert the 4 bolt to a single bolt adapter?

I would start with the same size you are running now. I think you need to be around 7K on the ground.
Old 06-09-2015, 10:40 PM
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Hello

With 2 blades we use only 2 bolt as shown on pictures.

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Old 06-09-2015, 11:00 PM
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Hello Enrique

All answers about OSGT33 on this thread :
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-p...e-pattern.html
Claude

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Old 06-09-2015, 11:20 PM
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There you go Dave, Claude's suggestion will work fine.

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Old 06-10-2015, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by drac1 View Post
Can you convert the 4 bolt to a single bolt adapter?

I would start with the same size you are running now. I think you need to be around 7K on the ground.
Several years ago Itried to use the single bolt adapter on a DLE. The thing weighed about 3 ounces. I had just spent quite an effort to lighten the engine by about 4 ounces so putting back 3 just didn't sit well.

I kept to 4 bolts except I spent some more money and converted these to titanium.

APC narrow hub prop may be a problem for the 4 bolt prop mounts. APC makes a couple large hub props that will work except these are even heavier and not a real solution.

The DLE35 is a very sweet runner and will work fine on most any 2 meter current pattern plane. Not as strong as the OS GT33 but how much power do we really need? I admit tho that the 33 is something else and is my favorite by far particularly on the ESComposites pipe.

Some folks think you never have enough power. Well, my piped 55 cc Delta experiments from a couple years ago proved that theory wrong. I couldn't throttle the DLE55 low enough for useful pattern flying. BUT I didn't try a really small venturi on it which might have been the real problem solver.
Old 06-10-2015, 10:28 PM
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Hello

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvzPkbHACzM

Friends of mine use DLE35 RA on FAI . They are happy with.

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Old 06-11-2015, 12:29 AM
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Hi Papaone,

any details on the prop and pipe they are using?
Old 06-11-2015, 07:57 AM
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Hello

Friend of mine José just answers me.
Header is HPAL-ZDZ 40 RE - 25.
He bought in topmodel-cz shop
. It is cheap about 30 Euro delivery at home.
http://www.topmodelcz.cz/index.php?&set_lang_client=2
Tuned pipe is
http://www.topmodel.fr/product-detai...l-mvvs-35-40cc
Propeller is 18x12 APC. I think it is too little.
Claude

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Old 06-14-2015, 05:18 AM
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Thanks for the pics Claude, interesting to see a couple of different soft mounting options as well. We had looked at using those isolation mounts for the engine but couldn't source any at the time so went with the Hyde style mount.

Got a couple of flights in this afternoon, a little richer on the high speed needle and now I can pull to 45 at 3/4 throttle and go as high as I like with no losing power so thats looking better, might still be able to go a little richer yet. Had a bit of excitement when I accidentally hit the throttle kill switch at the top of a stall turn though! managed to get it back on the runway so all good. Next test is to try lengthening the pipe and hopefully smooth out the power delivery a little.
Old 06-14-2015, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by marrinersgarage View Post
Thanks for the pics Claude, interesting to see a couple of different soft mounting options as well. We had looked at using those isolation mounts for the engine but couldn't source any at the time so went with the Hyde style mount.

Got a couple of flights in this afternoon, a little richer on the high speed needle and now I can pull to 45 at 3/4 throttle and go as high as I like with no losing power so thats looking better, might still be able to go a little richer yet. Had a bit of excitement when I accidentally hit the throttle kill switch at the top of a stall turn though! managed to get it back on the runway so all good. Next test is to try lengthening the pipe and hopefully smooth out the power delivery a little.
Hey Dave,

Seems like you are getting it sorted.

I did the same with my Valiant last week. Hit the kill swich by accident about 175 meters out and about half the box height. Luckily I was quick enough switching it on again and because I had about half throttle on, the YS 185cdi fired back up again.
Old 06-14-2015, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by marrinersgarage View Post
SNIP

Had a bit of excitement when I accidentally hit the throttle kill switch at the top of a stall turn though! managed to get it back on the runway so all good. Next test is to try lengthening the pipe and hopefully smooth out the power delivery a little.
You are neither the first nor the last that's done that. I did the same last week except I flipped it back quickly and the engine didn't die. The remote kill is a good feature on any engine, including glow, just more difficult to do with glow.

Regards to richer runs, there is an optimal setting for gasoline and it's a good idea to get the carb to that point and leave it alone. Gasoline doesn't need the kind of fiddling we all did on our glow engines. I think I said it earlier....let the spark plug tell you if you are running at the optimal mixture. Sure the engine can run a bit richer but carbon builds rather quickly when that's done.

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