Jarvis, There are 3 Insights that i Know of flying.. the two on his website and the one pictured above with the light blue/yellow color scheme. Mine will be going to Nats i believe and possibly an electric version to follow shortly from my stable.

Cant wait to hear you results!

Chuck

Hey Jarvis... I've got a Focus 2 that is half covered on the bench. Had to make a few mods, mainly in the wieght department to get it under weight with the AXI. Should make it for sure with a new set of batteries.

Glad to hear you are going to the Nats, wish I could make it, would be a great time! Trying to get the time off of work, doesn't look good. So.... gonna move up to Masters next season, so is Chris. Guess we'll have to wait until after the Nats to battle it out again!

Mark,

I am going with a Black and yellow with metallic teal trim on top with Navy blue and Yellow on the bottom. Wont be as complitcated as Lonestars but should look good too.... I just hope I can do her justice when it come time to cover....She is looking good Mark...many, many thanks.......


4u2nv

ps

I know where that Insight I resides and any one in the Houston area interested in getting into pattern is welcome to come get her....come up with an OS 160 and servos and you are in business...it is a little heavy but flies very well indeed.....

Jarvis - Looking good! Now don't tease us again, I expect you to actually get that baby finished and show up and fly it at some contests!

See you soon,

Jon Carter

Jarvis,

i was curious how your balancing turned out. Did you mount the wing tube per plans or adjust it. What motor are you running? Lots more questions really, but maybe easier if you could go through your experience a little. Mark is the only other person who has framed one up except for you, and me at my stage right now. weight?

As for my plane... i have been sanding, capping some more.. cut the pipe tunnel and started sheeting it. I will finish the front end once the tunnel is done.
I have ben debating and debating color schemes... just can't be sure what will look good, and what can be seen. Sigh, i prolly go with what looks good and ope it can be sen.

Anyhow.. enough rambling tonight... more sanding to do

Chuck

RC Pattern Flyer
The Insight was built Per Plans, with the wing tube per plans.
The Insight pictured is just under 4lbs, it will be all monokote
no paint, I'm looking at 9 1/2 lbs under 10 lbs for sure.
The funniest thing is that I built that Insight Fuse in ( ONE DAY ).
I got those Plans from Mark, in Jan 05, I believe I was one of the first.
Should have been flying in March 05 , Mark makes that sheeting
and Capping look so easy, it drove me Crazy, an I like sheeting foam wings.

OS 140 RX
Fut 9152 all round
Hitec 5595 on Rudder 300oz
MK bell Crank systems ( that DEPS system was to tight for the 1st Insight fuse that I built)

it was just too dog gone gorgeous out for me not to take her outside as i tried to balance for the wing tube and get a couple of shots.. mark i hope you like it...


enjoy everyone... still tons of sanding to do!!!

chuck

Chuck,

Oh my god that thing is huge.......what a difference 1" in fusebox height makes! Should be interesting when it's done though.

-mark

I finally got some sanding done....this is just a rough sanding of all the balsa caps on the wings and tail. After sanding the wings and ailerons I weighed them and both read 8.8oz. I was surprised at how similar the weights are.....this will put me on target for 15oz. or less for each wing panel ready to fly.

Also laid out the splice for the fuse sides using a couple of steel rulers and some wax paper. I applied glue, then another sheet of wax paper, then carefully placed two sheets of particle board and some weights........I knew those would come in handy someday.

Holy crap that thing is HUGE Chuck!

Well, it oughta knife edge pretty well

-Mike

Well. What can i say... its wierd.. i only added 1 inch in the fuse sides and Mark had added 3/4" in the lower belly pans to help hide the pipe (which is installed in the pics). I am amazed at how much it "beefs" the plane up like it is on steroids.

More to come.. I got the wing tube donuts in and will be glueing the tube in tomorrow.. this monring. what time is it.. hehe

Chuckles

Leave it to Chuckles to kit bash one right outta the box(err I mean off the plans). You right CHuckie..... what a roach(but a nice roach). Only in Texas could you find a roach like that. It should fly great with that Aries canopy on it (heh!heh!) Heck.... if we could find those cuties in Hot Springs you might even be able to dazzle them with an aerobatic performance instead of being the pit crew and dance director.

Have a Merry Christmas and a smooth flying New Year.

Wayne

Well, i have reached the point of no return.. Stab in, wing tube in... now it just details eh? The tube i was really anxious about and it when in so easy i was amazed, probably because i built it up so much in my mind.

More capping today.. finishing off the elevators getting ready to setup the wing adjusters and retaining screws.

Merry Christmas to all.. and happy landings in 2006. (wheels down).

Chuck

Damn.......I knew I should have gone to Hot Springs last year!

Chuck, that monster makes the Aries canopy look tinny! And to think the Aries was considered huge just three years back.

That thing's so fat it's starting to look a bit like a Piper Cub. You need to paint it yellow and black. he he.

Keith

How about just pink with a black nose? Sure there would be plenty of comments then eh.

hehe... more sawdust to come tomorrow, i am going to cut out the root ribs... set in the stab adjusters etc.

G night

Chuckles

Here are those pics I said I would send Chuck..

Merry Christmas to all of you bearers of wood!

what.. no inverted pics?? come on mikey.. hehehe....

btw, still sanding... grin

Chuck

Gimme a couple of weeks! Merry Christmas Friends... Santa just left the house so Im going to bed to see Mrs. Claus!!!! Yahoo!

Got the fuse sides squared up and marked for former locations.....I am trying something different concerning the fuse doublers....I polyurethane glued vertical grain 1/16" balsa sheeting solid in the original 1/16" ply location. It seems quite strong and as I add formers the fuse sides will stiffen up a great deal. If it feels too flimsy after getting the fusebox framed, I can add horizontal stiffeners about half-way up on the inside of the fuse sides......at this point, I don't think I will need to. I have the gear plate and main formers now in place and the fusebox is shaping up well.


middle pic shows the 1/16" balsa doubler in the stab area.

the fusebox is taped together at the tail post right now........I will add the rest of the formers and firewall later.......soon I hope.

I am a little concerned about being somewhat nose heavy, this is one idea i had to help.... let me know if i am nuts or should follow through.

I am going to move the aileron servos closer to the hinge line. Will this mess up any geometry? how close is to close? i plan on using titanium turnbuckles style pushrods since they are precut, short and light.

thanks,

Chuck

Gosh generally speaking in my opinion, I dont think you can get the servo TOO Close to the control horn as long as you have the structure to support it in the wing, and you have the mechanical room in the linkage. You will just need to make sure that you set the control horn in the right relationship to the servo to get the geometry you are looking for.. I would think that dual axis rod ends would give you a little extra freedom of motion so that the pushrod doesnt bind up at the servo arm or control horn.. On my Genesis,, the servo is so close to the control horn that I had to clip the threaded titanium rod ends for the CF pushrods off because they were too long end to end.

Assuming that the servo arm is pointing to the fuselage, I like to setup my geometry so that at full throw on my highest rate setting, the pushrod is parallel to the long side of the servo and paralled to the control horn, this equals max leverage at full throw.
When it comes back to neutral, the pushrod is angled slightly from the servo arm to the control horn and is no longer parallel to the servo. This should give you increased mechanical advantage as throw is increased and less at center, which is what you want... If you start out at neutral with the pushrod parallel to the servo and at 90degrees to the servo arm,, it looks pretty, but as as throw is increased the pushrod angles in or out and you are losing leverage,,, at least thats the way I understand it.. If Im wrong thats fine but thats the way it was taught to me and looking at it it really seems to make mechanical sense.

You are welcome for the unsolicited free geometry lesson!! lol

Mike,

Good way to put that mechanical advantage thing.

Let me add a different view for you.

Where do we need the most mechanical advantage on say ailerons....It’s in the pull or push of a loop right. Where are the aileron servos sitting when you pull a tight corner? In a tight corner the servo needs to hold those ailerons as perfectly aligned at zero as possible at the neutral position so that the model loops properly right? If one aileron gives more than the other side then it will cause the loop segment to spiral off to one side. If both ailerons get moved by the forces then it will change the pitch rate of the model. This can look like a segmented loop in the extreme case and in a not so extreme case it can cause you to miss the exit line or the vertical (over or under pull-push). You end up pulling past the point where you need to stop so you adjust your flying through practice to stop a little earlier so that you stop going perfectly level after the vertical downline. Point is the surface will blow back some no matter what servo you have on it, and no matter how good the linkage. This is affected by the servo's dead band and power. Digital servos are much better at this holding power than analog servos of the past. But the better chance you give you ailerons of staying absolutely centered the better your loop segments will be.

If you want to prove this is the worst place for the servos power go put some standard 40oz servos on your ailerons. You won’t be able to pull straight corners consistently. However your roll rate will likely not change too much. This test will show that the servos at their end deflection values are not needing as much power as holding the neutral in the loop element. Now if you roll rate was cut in half going to weak servo then I would say you need to more powerful servo or maximize you linkage for this deflection angle.

The reason the roll rate will not change much going to the wimpy servo is because the aileron is acting with the wing to create lift in different directions for the roll. The load on the aileron itself during a roll is not as much as during a hard pull or push. In a roll you are changing the shape of the airfoil on the wing to create the lift and the wing is doing the work. In a corner (pull or push) you are using the servo to maintain the shape of the airfoil that is already there. So combine this with inertia and gravity and sometimes you can have some pretty high loads on the ailerons trying to move them off of neutral. How often do you fly across the sky holding aileron? If you are like me you level your wings and then you let the model fly with its wings level right? I flew today and I don’t think I ever held Aileron input for a sustained period of time. I held some rudder as we had a pretty good cross wind. But I don’t think I have ever had to hold a sustained aileron input to make the model fly a straight line.

This is where I feel the mechanical advantage is best in a pattern model.

For control throws we are only talking 10-15degs of travel on the ailerons anyway for precision flying. Now I will agree with you that if you are flying 3D and large control deflections are needed then you need the power out where the surface is deflected...but we aren't flying there with our pattern models.

Pattern sequences are flown with rates very low like I said 10-15degs and we are not using this for rolls. This rate with the stick pegged is a super fast roll rate so we are actually using way down in the 5-6degs for normal rolls. So I optimize my linkages to give mechanical advantages at this near neutral position. This is where I fly all the time and this is where I want the model have the most locked in feel. I want to level my wings and let the model track straight. I want to then get to the end of a horizontal line and just pull straight back on the stick and have the model loop to vertical aileron input free.

Again if we stick more servos on the surface then we can get more power out of the servos so less mechanical advantage is not a big deal. But we are not sticking 2-3-4 servos on an aileron like the big 40% models.


Now take my Showtime. I wanted it to be able to hold those large deflections 50degs and so on. So I setup the mechanical advantage to hold these deflections. I also stuck huge power servos on all the surfaces. This way I can do rolling Harriers like the big boys with the aileron stick pegged over at 40+degs and just hanging there on the prop. This is an extreme case. Now the guys that are doing 3D and Precision with their 40% stuff they are sticking 3-4 servos on a aileron to get enough power to overcome this geometry issue. Also the guys doing this on the big models are trying to get a compromise between precision and 3D rates. SO the use of the linkage that you describe is helpful in maintaining the control input and holding it there....but when you go to a precision setup you need more servos and more servo power to keep the surfaces in the right spot near neutral.

Think of this way:
In Pattern flying how often are you holding a sustained control input?

A vertical roll is about it…or maybe the entry into a spin where you are holding up elevator. However in the spin you have very little load on the elevator in this case as you are going slow. If you had too much speed the model would climb…All the other stuff the control input is changing over time and mostly it is at or near neutral position with only very small angles of deflection. So maximize your setup to work where you fly the most.

Just some food for thought. This is the not really the thread for this discussion as its the Insight thread but think about where you do most of your rolls in terms of stick inputs and rates...Then look at your model and see just how much your surfaces are moving you will be very surprised. The end points are not the important values but rather the position you stick them when actually flying a sequence.


I feel you will find a difference in the models performance by maximizing your ATV values and setting up maximum mechanical advantage at the servo neutral not its end points. Again different strokes for different folks.

There is also a discussion we can get into about maximizing speed of the servos output versus the power of the servos output....There are many ways to do it. There is more to a linkage and control setup than the parts wiggle in the right direction let’s go fly it!

Good discussion. I don’t many modelers think about this stuff when setting up their linkages.

Troy Newman

Troy,

Great info...Mike, thanks for starting the new thread...it's a wealth of info others may not have seen.

John,

xmas is over........yeah......I got a new hobby.....my son's N gauge railroad.....should be fun though.

I did get back close enough to the workbench to put in the rear formers and some sheeting. You have to be mindful when sheeting at this stage to keep the still-fragile fusebox straight. I like to sheet the bottom of the forward fusebox first.....giving it more stiffness to work with. I left the aft sheeting off to have access for the deps that I just ordered....might be few days.....

Since I have to wait I will likely sheet some of the aft section, still leaving access to easily put in the deps when it gets here. The top forward 1/16" ply sheet can be done as well.....