Hey Folks,

This Poll is proving to provide some good info for those that care to look into the problems pattern has had in the past and present.

Its also bringing in several new members to RCU from the pattern email list NSRCA handles. Bob has did a great job of getting the word out on the poll via that email list. Thanks Bob.

I also think its very important to know where our problems lie.
I myself took a break from flying precision for 4 yrs to begin raising my 2 small children ( ages 4 and 6 now). Reentered the hobby just this past season. Alot changed in those 4 yrs. Some good, some bad. Some still to be decided on.

I am going to make this post a sticky for a while,(keep it on top) so the folks that are hearing about the RCU poll from other sources will have an easy time finding it. I will unstick when it runs its course.

Thanks to all who put some time and effort into this poll, and for spreading the word. We(as pattern fliers and competitors) need to know where we are making error, so as not to repeat it, and hopefully gain the knowledge needed to make the pattern masses grow.

Gerald

There was another thread a while back about trying to make a 'cheap' pattern event. Maybe we need to dig that one up again, and brainstorm with it a little.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/showthread...849&forumid=31

There it is..

TOYMAKER,

I agree to an extent on your views of a novice pattern class. I think thaqt there should be a separate class for people who fly smaller airplanes, so they are on the same playing field. I do not agree with the CD that would give people a bonus for flying a non pattern type airplane. If I flew better with my Hydeout than a guy that was flying a 4Star, I think that it is unfair that he should be given an adjustment in his flight score. Sure, my airplane will have a better power to weight ratio, and will be a lot easier to fly through the patterns than his airplane, but he could have chosen an airplane that is easier to fly like a Venus. Just my opinion, if I am missing something, please let me know because I seem to be having an off week with comprehending stuff.

Acroman,

The handicap... as I would call it was just an internal fix at some contests. I'm sure the C.D.'s where looking out for the interest of those trying to get started with lesser equipment in the hopes that they would continue with the pattern experience. At least that was my PERCEPTION.

Golfer's and kegler's do it all the time. I don't hear the better ones complaining about the handicap system.

Guys,

My problem is little to no interest in Pattern at the local field. On any given weekend, we have everything from electric old timers to 40% Carden Edge's, but I'm not aware of anyone who has flown pattern.

One point which has been brought out in this thread, what is a good pattern trainer/motor combination for someone interested in learning pattern? It shouldn't break the bank, but it should teach some basics of setting up a pattern plane and should fly similar.

There has been talk about Cubs, 40 and 60 size sticks, Kaos' and others. What is the best entry level plane/motor for getting your feet wet?

Latch, there is no "best". There are a lot of planes that will fill the need. Although the closer you get to a 2 meter pattern plane, the better it fills it =)

Anybody that wants to do this can come up with a good starting set up pretty cheap. A .60 sized King Kobra will work. A .40-.60 sized Tai Ji works great. A .40 sized Aresti works fine. A Daddy Rabbit. Look for a low wing design with aerobatic lines, and just add power. Then trim it out and pour the fuel. That's all there is to it.

Some basic guidelines: It must be straight, light, and have plenty of power. Rudder authority helps. if you can fly a straight line, do rolls without changing heading or altitude, and make round loops, you can be competetive in sportsman. Learning to correct lines with the rudder instead of the ailerons is a must.

And from there, practice practice practice. There really isn't a magic formula or a perfect plane. Even the best 2 meter Euro kit isn't perfect, just very good =)

The answer is in the amount of fuel you burn practicing, not the plane itself. The plane does help though, and the more you feel like investing in it, the better. Just ask yourself what you're willing to spend and then go do it. But remember this: if you CHOOSE to compete with a smaller plane, don't be SUPRISED or intimidated when the guy next to you shows up with a $4000 Synergy. You can beat him if you practice enough. But you have to understand that you will have to practice twice as hard as he does IF you want to beat him. If you have the drive though, it can be done. I saw it done on numerous occasions this season.

-Mike

Anything you have that's currently in your hanger. Seriously. You can start practicing the pattern with a worn out Kadet if you want. Even with such an airframe, you will learn what you need to improve and what it's all about. If you have decided you want to fly pattern, and want to build a plane for it but are on a budget, I'd build a Kaos. Either 40 or 60, it doesn't matter. But, since everyone and their neighbor has a 40 and are comfortable with that size, then make it the 40 size. If you're looking for an ARF, the Aresti 40 has gotten nothing but rave reviews.

John

I watched a guy in Florida whoop 2 meter planes with a .40 sized Arresti and a YS 63. It's a clean little plane.

-Mike

http://www.davesmithmodels.com/website1004.htm
I just found these models. They are almost ARTC, and are dirt cheap.
http://www.davesmithmodels.com/website1009.htm

Just like any hobby, you can take it to any extreme you want. I expect my electrified Venus to be able to take me pretty far for a fairly low cost. Having a decked out plane is wonderful, but it isn't required until you reach the most competitive echelons.

How many people are really being held back by their gear? I have a feeling practice time is probably much more of a handicap, but it's one you can't easily solve with money.

$2500 a plane seems like a lot, until you realize that it's less than what people spend on many other hobbies like snowmobiles, jet skis, doll collections, motorcycles, stamp collections or a competitive mountain bike. Pick your level of insanity and smile every time you're on the sticks.

Great Poll -

I fly IMAC although I have several friends who fly pattern. Our club even hosts a major pattern contest every year. The competiotrs are a great bunch of people who love to fly and have fun.

I have flown a friends VERY nice pattern plane a few times. It flys great and really grooves. My reasoning behind flying IMAC instead of Pattern are simple:

1. I have a hard time visually orienting the pattern plane. I am sure this would go away with practice, but when you are used to flying a big 40% plane with huge gear hanging down and then go to a smaller - very symetrical plane with retracts, it can be disorienting. I doubt many other people have this issue, but it is something which makes me more hesitant to fly Pattern on a regular basis.

2. Freestyle! I love the end of an IMAC contest and people get out there and cut loose. I notice that freestyle participation gets more popular at the end of a season and people tend to take more risks - still , it is always fun to watch. It also tends to get a lot of people to come out and watch who normally would stay at hime.

3. - And probably the biggest reason - Unknowns ! They are very challenging and a lot of fun. Unknowns are by far my favorite part of flying IMAC contests. If they ever add unknowns to pattern, I would be much more inclined to try it.

Artistic Aerobatics...

Is a form a free style that has been introduced to the pattern scheme of things. They flew it at the Nats and I'm sure its going to become more popular as it grows. They can fly thier routine to music like the guys do at the TOC.

Not sure if its open to any participant but its in the works.

An unkown in the pattern classes would definetely stir things up.
I like that idea!

Thanks for the info. guys.

I'll start practicing with what I have now. I'll see just how good and precise I can get with that. I'll also download the info. on Pattern from the AMA. Possibly this upcoming spring look at what kind of "pattern trainer" will work with my current budget.

Then we'll see what the future might hold.

You never know!

When I was first learning to fly R/C my goal was to be able to compete in Pattern and go to the Nats. I loved the precise beauty of the events, the discipline of the flyer's, and the helpfulness of the local group I was involved with. Pattern was the inspiration for my spending every extra cent I had as a high school student, I loved it so much.

But the ugliness of subjective judgment and personality plays turned me away from the event. What was a pretty plane would help to forgive a less than stellar performance. A reputation could overshadow a mistake. And goodness help the person who was from another club that challenged the local guru. It was a sad thing for me to realize that the best wasn't necessarily the one who could most properly execute the maneuvers. e

Dick Hanson has it exactly right. Pattern could improve if the rules would allow the use of gas motors DH was able to build a sub 11 lb pattern plane with a 40cc gasser. If the rules allowed a slightly bigger wingspan and length, and raised or removed the weight limit, it would lower the cost and open up the options for plane design. A 40cc gasser costs less than the typical pattern motor, is much less expensive to operate, and develops more power. Just say no to glow!

What is the obsession with putting big gassers in everything over there?
The gas engine prices will go up when they go into pattern, as new advancements will be made. The 3W 50i QS is 610 Euro. Can you imagine how expensive it will be if it becomes the pattern norm?

Diablo
In one respect I think you or correct. The weight limit ( Which in my openion is a useliss rule.) eliminates the option to use many of the low cost ARF airplanes which other than weight are Patteren legal. Raising the limit would also afford the ability to use gas engines.
I do not agree with increasing the size limit. That would open up a whole new can of worms , namely it would prompt design changes throughout the entire pattern community which will result in increased cost in the long run, and since cost in this survey is one of the major reasons people don't fly pattern I dont think it would be in the best intrest of pattern to increase the size limit.
But I am personally 100% convinced that the weight limit should be raised. My airplanes all meet the current limit but I know of many that don't. The weight rule is like having a rule in Track & Field events that outlaw's the use of lead shoes by sprinters. It makes no sence.
Buddy

Diablo wrote:

"Dick Hanson has it exactly right. Pattern could improve if the rules would allow the use of gas motors DH was able to build a sub 11 lb pattern plane with a 40cc gasser. If the rules allowed a slightly bigger wingspan and length, and raised or removed the weight limit,".....


Sure Pattern could change the rules to allow larger and heavier planes, they could also raise the sound rules and alter the schedules....but I would strongly question if that would be an improvment.

I am not aware of any rule that prohibits the use of gas engines in pattern per se.

Heck we could just throw out all the rules in pattern and in imac and have a fun fly.

Dan

Rules are rules. If you change the weight limit, then you could put a YS 320 in there. That wouldn't do much for cost would it?

That has been done, its called IMAC.

Robert
No It wouldn't do much for cost and it wouldn't do much for performance either.
Good Performance is achieved by making sure the design utalizes proper wing loading. not excess power, Assumeing however that power is adequate, more of it only makes you use the throttle control stick more. Current engines have plenty of power. to fly a properly designed two meter pattern plane.
And until the size changes larger engines are not required.
I know some FAI pilots who have had to add weight to get their very light airplanes to fly properly. You see the very light or heavy really don't count but the proper weight does.

My point is that you can't have a perfect sport where everyone likes the rules, and the rules are perfect for every aspect of the sport.

Remember, 'theres no such thing as a free lunch!'