Puglsey flew his (now mine) with a Saito 100 - maybe he'll chime in here. Talking with him he said power was decent but could use a tad more. I've seen one fly with a YS 110 on a pipe and it was outta this world.

Currently I have an OS 91 FS II-P on mine - still breaking it in. Does fine for standard patten work. Could use more for 3D. I'm thinking of going to an OS 91FX or Saito 100.

Between the OS91FX and the Saito100, I thing that the OS would be the better of the two choices. Add a power enhancing pipe and it should be respectable. It will not rocket from a hover but it will climb out respectfully and it will be lighter weight than the YS combination. I have seen the 91FX with standard muffler on the airplane and it was quite OK. The YS110 is the killer combo but it comes with the expense of high nitro fuel.

Mark

What would you say was the best prop on the YS110 on the Synergy. I started with the 15 x 8 and it fly’s the plane a little quick for 3d and I had problems slowing it down. I since have tried the 16 x 6 though to 16 x 8. I found that the 16 x 6 is great. Keeps the plane at a nice steady speed and slows fantastily on the prop. But it lacks the speed for some manoeuvres which need speed as well as thrust. The 16 x 7 and 8 seem to load the motor a little too much. Any ideas where to go?

I am thinking of ditching the pipe as I am getting a little feed up with rigging at the field. Think I may uses the standard pipe on an in pipe header. Any thoughts?


Cheers

Kris

Has anyone a flight report on Saito 100??
I know people recommend either YS91/110 or OS91fx but the Saito seems just as capable on paper,
it has almost as much power as the YS91 (1.8hp v 2.0hp) but it is 230g lighter!!!
Not to say the Saito is a better engine ( as in my oppinion it is not ) but for this application 3d/pattern it seems the obvious choice for weight reasons.

My 110 turns the 16x8 at about 9.3k at which speed the engine is quite happy. I am running Wildcat 30% though, on lower nitro it would struggle a bit as I guess it likes to be mid 9ks as the 91 does. I'll be trying out a 15x9 tomorrow though to see if that is an improvement for F3a as I am going to use it as a spare model for competition flying as well as a 3D type plane.

I spoke briefly to Christophe at Sandown this year and he is using a 15x8 on about 23% nitro (I think, I don't recall exactly which fuel he was using). Interestingly, everything on his plane was as standard bar some minor work to get his pipe to fit. I am sure it was trimmed to perfection but it was illuminating to see just what this plane is capable of in the hands of a genius!

I did fly it with the 100. Right up to the dumb thumb......then SWILL brought it back to life.

I flew it in a Pattern contest, cause I broke the gear on my Focus, and was not impressed with it as far as sequence flying. It was fun in KE flight, other than that, I wasn't impressed with the plane. It may have been because it always felt a tad under powered.

Just my opinion.

Pugs

One thing I would say about this plane regarding F3a use is that it is a bit more complex to set up due I am sure to its very large surfaces. You need some quite accurate powerful servos and a reasonable amount of exponential to get it "turned down" and smooth but once you have done this I reckon it's pretty good.

Also useful is a coarser pitch prop than you would fit for 3D, so that the power "flows" more smoothly and you don't get the more dramatic speed differentials with different power settings such as you do with the finer pitch props.

Anybody looking for the tuned exhaust header & muffler for the Synergy 90 3D to fit an OS 91 FX, I have one and am willing to sell for $125.00 delivered conusa... This is what fits in the tunnel and exhausts straight down. Pictures upon request. I will be posting in the marketplace tomorrow, with pictures.

Hi,

I have had a few problems with my Synergy 90 3D lately regarding Tail Flutter...

I completed my Synergy that I brought back from Germany a few weeks ago, On the first test flight I had a serious case of tail flutter when flying straight and level at just over half throttle (OS 91 FX) I slowed down immediatly but one elevator clevis came off and the left elevator settled in the full down position.. I had to switch to full rates to get enough elevator to keep it from flying straight into the dirt, I managed to put it down in the next paddock but unfortunatly the long grass ripped the undercarriage clean out. (I had added tri stock reinforcing as Mark Novack suggested)
On closer inspection the brass pin in the elevator clevis fell out when the tail flutter occured. I had used all the supplied hardware except for the aileron linkages..

I repaired the dammaged undercarriage block and replaced the elevator clevises with du-bro locking clevises.
Next flight had a similar problem. After flying aroung a few circuits at low throttle I decided to push the stick foward to about half throttle, as soon as I did this the tail started fluttering violently and after a quick change of underpants I managed to land safely without damage. I noticed the violent shaking had broken one of my tail struts I had made from aluminium airfoil tube. It was back to the drawing board...

I have since replaced ALL the clevises and control horns with Du-Bro, and replaced both tail struts. I also straightened out a slight warp in one stabiliser side...

The next day I went out for another attempt - SUCCESS!! It flew much better with no sign of tail flutter even at full throttle.

I am still not really sure what the problem was, and if it is going to happen again when I am flying low inverted across the strip? I assume the light control horns were too flexible and allowed enough play in the linkages to cause the flutter...

Has anyone else had this problem?? The last thing I want is to loose my model because of something stupid like tail flutter...

Attached is a pic of my synergy right before the first flight (Note the long grass that is good for ripping wheels out..)

NZ Scythe

I was not happy with the supplied accessories. I replaced the pinned hinges with CA hinges. The horns looked flexible and the footprint on the surface was very small. These were replaced for MK rudder horns (0812). The links were replaced for carbon push rods with titanium inserts. Then ball links screwed on the servo arm and metal clevises to the horns. For the ailerons ball links on the servo arm and clevises on the horn. These required approx 2� of 3mm rod for the link. Again I used MK rudder horns on the ailerons. I did how ever use the supplied closed loop set-up for the rudder as the surface will pushed and pulled so halving the load on each horn. But the rudder horns were moved up to the top of the tri reinforcement on the rudder and the closed loop exit moved up the fuz to just above the blue colour on the fuz, this was so the wire would miss the elevator on its 60-degree up movement. I used sheathing along the length of the closed loop, just in case a servo extension lead contacts the closed loop wire in flight. I have also braced the tail with ali tube and the tail seems very stiff. The only other thing I have done is to close all the gaps on all surfaces. I used diamond tape for this. So far I have not had problems with the control surfaces.

As far as tri stock on the UC, I have cross-laminated two sheets of 1/16� balsa to fill the lighting holes on the fuz between F1 and F2. Then I could fit the tri stock to the UC plate and it contacts directly to the firewall, wing mount and fuz side, making it all very stiff. I also lined the Fuz back to the rear wing mounting with 1/16�. The fuz was a little flexible and now the firewall is directly connected to rear wing mount and is all very stiff.

This is my second synergy as I killed the first one. I think with these mods it does work better and the oz or two of increased weight a penalty worth paying.

Any way cheers

Kris

Scythe.
I test flew a clubmates Synergy 90 3D a few weeks ago (YS 110) and also suffered from tail flutter. Engine at about half throttle. Cut the engine straight away and landed quickly. Once on the ground we could see that the tailplane on both sides had cracked about half span. Photos have been sent to the distributor here in the UK, and he is awaiting a reply / explanation.

I'm very surprised that a $600 ARF from ZNline need still reinforcement that sejested from Mark. I would think that after spending this kind of money(which i have to)you would not have to go to any trouble. Guys, correct me if i'm wrong. I own two of ZNline airplanes without any special instructions. My problem is that after all this money on ARF i still need to built her, reinforced there. For that i could by a kit, which i didn't wanted.

Isaac

PS: Guys i love ZNline, i just have a problem with this airplane only. So please don't get your boxing gloves.

Matirx, Hope your friend gets his Synergy sorted out...

I got a reply from Alvin Braeckman in Germany just before with some very usefull information regarding the Synergy 90 3D Tail Flutter issue, I have copied it here fo all to see:

----------------------------------

Patrick

Hello - hope your fine and your Synergy is still living.

I have read about your problems reg. the tail flutter. It took me a very long time to understand what was happening on a few kits.

Here as the modifications we introduced since you bought your plane

1) full, plain Balsa stab - this to avoid the problem with Balsa quality (I have seen that a few stabs were up to 30% lighter than the other ones - this could be one reason for flutter

2) introduction of 2mm carbon bracing for the stab (even if the stab is plain, we feel that there is a need for bracing as we do not want the fuselage to break)

3) introduction of carbon rods to slide over the elevator linkages

4) we now build into the fuselage some light ply reinforcments into the fuselage (we have seen that the 3x3 mm Balsa reinforcments are not enough to resist modelers abuses

5) servo recommendation - do not use cheap standard servos as the quality of the plastic case is very soft.

to resume : it is VERY important that the linkage to the elevator is very stiff - so please slip some carbon tubing on the 2 mm steel linkage - brace the elevator with carbon rod - and install if yet not done good quality servos. (if you do not have carbon tubes or rods or even want a plain stab - just tell me I send you everything by letter)

The basi problem is that Cristophe decided to have very efficient elevators. Therefor he decided to keep the surface straigt with a very thick trailing edge. This configuration is very prone to flutter (especially with the size of the movable parts) - therefor we must insist on extremely stiff linkage (replacing the horns and other parts of the kit is NOT the issue)

Best regards
Alvin

----------------------------------

I agree with Alvin that the tail linkages must have NO play and particular attention should be paid to ensure this. I feel this is the number one reason for tail flutter on this design.

I also agree that the problem is not with the supplied linkages, but I still feel happier knowing I have some slightly stronger horns with bigger bases.

I am running JR DS-811 Servos on the elevators which have a small ammount of movement in the gear train, I am guessing this will get worse in time so I am looking at upgrading to a better servo.

Thanks again Alvin for the ongoing support.

I had another successful day of flying my synergy without incident today so hopefully this will be the start of a trend.

Happy Flying
Patrick

I have read a few posts about how people have attached the canopy to their Synergy 90 3D and and I think that screws are a bad idea...

I have used strips of black SolarTrim Self Adhesive trim sheet and taped the canopy along the bottom on both sides and this was a very quick and easy way of attaching it. I also used a couple of thinner (4mm) strips of solar trim and wrapped them around the front and back of the canopy to give it a more finished look. It works great, no ugly screws or glue marks, and in the event of a crash, it can easily be removed or replaced.

Just thought I'd share my idea.

Patrick

Scythe.
Thanks for sharing your response from Alvin. My friend will be VERY interested to see this. He's not on email so I've printed it for him. He's not heard anything yet from the UK supplier, but this might get some sort of reply from them!
BTW. He used the clevises that come with the kit, but sheathed all the rods with carbon tubing. He didn't brace the tail though.

Matrix
(Ian)

Hallo

bracing is of paramount importance on all these planes that are on the edge of weight. Strong linkages and good servos are very important too, especially on the tail of this plane.
We are also thinking to switch to other horns (not that the actual ones are bad) but only to make life easier. We will for sure go to MK 811 horns for the elevator and use special aluminum ones (to be available in around four weeks) for the ailerons.

Re: Canopy - screwing is not a good idea (at least it doesn't last too long, as the fuselage sides are quite soft) better is a strip of tape but my very preference goes to Canopy Glue from ZAP (don't shoot at me this is the only one I know)

Best regards
Alvin

My Synergy, purchased July this year, also had massive elevator flutter. Both elevators were snapped completely across the chord, and the flutter went on to snap both sides of the tailplane. Only the covering held it together long enough to land safely. I made a new tail and elevators from solid 1/2 inch balsa with holes cut out to lighten them but th holes are unecessary since even with a YS90 up front and 3 servos in the tail I am still adding lead to the tail.

All my pushrods were c/f tube epoxied over the steel rod and there is no slop at all in the linkage.

The elevators and tail supplied were totally inadequate for the job, the balsa was so thin that it was suitable for a free flight model. Both elevators snapped at the junction with the forward aerodynamic balance which is clearly the main stress point. I am not impressed by that on such an expensive model, the resulting flutter might have led to a crash causing a death in which case I would have pointed the finger of blame straight at ZN Line.

H

I've also witnessed the weakness of the Synergy's elevator... here's a buddy of mine's (Hammbone's). He managed to get it down safely. He was using the quality servos (8411's) with very stong and stiff linkages. We think it broke during a snapping maneuver.

Mine hasn't shown any signs of wear yet. However, I did get an up close look at the rudder structure and beefed that up a bit as I thought the balsa was a little weak in some spots.

I am always relieved when I get a plane with the wings already joined so I don't end up with them warped and having to correct with aileron deflection, but my Synergy needs a fair bit of left aileron to fly level although the wings look like they were joined straight. I have dual servos on the elevators but they are set straight. Anyone else have ailerons offset? My stab and elevators seem really strong with no signs of flutter but I am using powerful digital servos maybe I had better brace them though?

I have a little left trim in my aileron.

Mine has left trim also! Hmmmm....

funny, Mine has about 6 clicks of right aileron...

I found a warp in the tail after my first couple of flights, I straightened it out but it still requires about 3mm deflection on the ailerons towards the right.

Who knows? it seems to track pretty good and vertical is vertical. Did everybosy use the supplied side/down thrust blocks for the engine mount? I did and I haven't had to adjust anything else apart from a couple of clicks of down elevator trim and a few right aileron.

I agree, normally if you need to trim out a wing warp with aileron you get the plane going out of trim at different speeds like at the top and bottom of loops or on landing but my plane tracks better than any other I have had at all speeds and does climb absolutely vertical and rolls vertical too. I did use the offset supplied on the motor mount and its perfect for my OS 91FX with genesis pipe, tracks like an arrow on take off. Incidently I can prop hang at 1/3 throttle, with 10% nitro and a 15x8 prop. Never had a plane that accellerates vertically like this one does either, most get slowed down by weight and drag.

Would it be worthwile to mass balance the surfaces? That ought to kill any chance of flutter................................ One could put some lead into the mass balances on the elevator for example. Just a thought, all have a good day.

I believe that mass balancing would improve the situation - it would probably solve it all together! But who wants to add lead to an aircraft?
as it turns out, I think most people are ending up slightly nose heavy with a YS 110 up front, so this might not be a bad idea.. I however have an OS 91FX which is a little lighter and it balances right on the money.

I had a thought that possibly the elevators could be stretched to make the chord about 5 - 10 mm longer. This should improve the flutter situation allowing more airflow over the tail, behind the hinge point. I have read about jet pilots moving the hinge point on all moving control surfaces to eliminate tail flutter.

The other suggestion is that the trailing edge of the elevators should be rounded not square like they are. Isn't this creating unnecessary turbulance?

I don't know if these suggestions would make any difference, I design Highways for a living, not aircraft! (only during my lunchbreaks!)

Alvin, Do the new Synergy kits come with sheet balsa Stabs and Elevators? or are the elevators still built up like the original kit? I Notice on Swill's Synergy, it was the elevator that failed - the stab seems to be ok.