Agreed. It will take attention to detail with the ducting to keep the entire system cool, but it's all achievable.

Best of luck to all of you with your YS's. I'm going to give the gas engine approach a try since I'm looking for a user-friendly engine right from the start and am a long ways from needing tons of power for F3A sequences.

Don't get the wrong impression from the YS, usually a 170 rarely needs adjustment, and it is usually done only once if needed, also, the needle valve is almost always in the same position, you can change field and no touch it at all, it is one of the most maintenance free engine available in my opinion.

But yes, gas is cheaper, and has it's advantages, even though is not written, I know that a lot of people is hoping a good gas engine will come out soon.

Regards

Hi

Pics of installation of YS CDI in my plane Harmonie
Thanks to Ryan to have put pics of installation of his Partner equiped with CDI. Theses pics helped me to install mine.

Papaone, is it necessary to do big hole for plug socket ?
Or you can unscrew this socket ?

Hi Christian Voldos

The 20 mm diameter hole already exists in the frame. I did it to put a tube to support the fuse when I painted it.
The socket is not movable.
Regards

Hello Papaone,

Very nice plane!!!

Please, let me suggest the following, secure the ignition spark plug cable to the cylinder intake tube with a ty-rap, and prevent the ignition cable to touch the carbon fiber ring on the inner hole of your mount.
The first will damage the spark plug connector, the second if the braid is chaffed or broken it might emit RF noise.

Happy flights.

Alejandro

I definitely concur with alejandro on this. It doesn't take much to chaff that wire and you will begin seeing some unique engine problems.

Arch

Hi Alejandro and Arch

Thanks for yours advices. I did modifications. In the box of CDI, there were plastic cordons for wrapping wires, so I used them for that and I put a tie-rap to fix socket plug.
I did 3 flights next week end with APC 18,1x11, fuel with 10 % oil and 20 % nitro for break in.
For the others flights I'll use fuel with 6 % oil and 20 % nitro. Very easy to start, I just set up by turning speed needle valve.
http://www.yspower.co.jp/en/data/pdf/DZ170cdi.pdf
Regards

<span id="result_box" class="long_text"><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Ol&aacute; caros amigos!" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">Hello dear friends!

</span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Estou desesperado com meu problema e para variar eu j&aacute; mexi em todo o motor tentando consertar o problema e n&atilde;o resolveu nada." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">I'm desperate about my problem and I have trying to fix the problem and solved nothing. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Meu problema &eacute; o seguinte e gostaria de saber se voc&ecirc;s poderiam me ajudar:" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">My problem is this and I wonder if you could help me:

</span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Comprei meu 170 cdi e abri duas voltas e meia a agulha de alta e pronto." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">I bought my 170 cdi and opened two and a halfturn the needle valve and ready. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Meu combustivel que utilizo &eacute; o Cool Power 30/24 Heli." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">My fuel I use is the 30% Nitro and 24% oilHeli Cool Power. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="E j&aacute; queimei 1 gal&atilde;o do mesmo." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">And it burned 1 gallon of it. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Metade amaciando o motor e a outra metade em voo." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">Half in Break-IN the engine and the other half in flight.
</span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Porem, estou com problemas s&eacute;rios para o motor funcionar ap&oacute;s o primeiro voo do dia." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">However, I have serious problems to the engine running after the first flight of the day. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="A primeira vez que ligo esta tudo perfeito, mas na segunda vez ele n&atilde;o pega mais." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">The first fly is perfect, but the second flythe engine not start. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="E um detalhe importante &eacute; que ele para de puxar o combustivel." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">And one important detail is the engine notpull the fuel. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Eu coloco o starter nele e deixo girando e nada de puxar combustivel." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">I put the starter and leave it spinning and nothing to pull the fuel. </span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Alguem sabe o que pode ser isso?" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">Someone knows what can that be?
</span></span></p>

<span class="long_text"><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Alguem sabe o que pode ser isso?" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">How many turns of the regulator?

</span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Estou usando uma bateria Futaba de 600ma somente para a igni&ccedil;&atilde;o." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">I'm using a Futaba 600mha battery only for ignition.

</span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Fico no aguardo de uma boa alma que me ajude com isto." onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">I am wait for a good soul to help me with this.
Regards,
</span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Abra&ccedil;os!" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'">
</span><span onmouseover="this.style.backgroundColor='#ebeff9'" title="Douglas" onmouseout="this.style.backgroundColor='#fff'" style="background-color: #fff">Douglas</span></span></p>

Douglas,

Use a bigger battery for the ignition. Better still, if you use a 2.4 radio, use dual batteries and draw power from the receiver. That balances everything out and this works well for many people. I have three of these engines are they all start flawlessly. Your problem is most likely a low battery.

About the fuel being sucked in, just use an "injection syringe" (I use the one from JETT : the bubble JETT fuel tanker; this is actually used to fuel bubbleless tanks but works great for the 170 CDI 'starting problem') to force the air into the fuel tank vent. This pressurizes the fuel and you can then see the fuel go all the way up the piple into the injector. As soon as this happens, stop the 'air injection' and start the engine. Starts every single time.

Atul

Atul's method will work. The other thing that is important is to let the engine cool 15-20 minutes at least between flights. The engine does not like to start when hot. Your 600mah battery should be more than enough as I'm drawing only 160mah per flight directly through my receiver including all my servos on a 10 minute flight.

How long are you letting the engine sit between flights? Sounds to me like it is just hot,

Arch

Bryan,

Look at Chief Aircraft's web site for XOAR E-props in wood. I've purchased several of these and have laminated a couple with carbon cloth. The plan is to use the E version of the XOAR props, strengthened with carbon. Extremely light weight. The 19x10 finished prop (wood and carbon) comes in at 63 grams.

Matt

Well, this engine appears to have raised the bar a bit closer to the YS for a 2 stroke..... and gas at that.
It turned the 18.1x10 apc on my overweight and oversized pattern test bed adequately on the ground with excellent performance in the air. I am very encouraged and looking forward to more experiments with different props.

The sound quality is the same or better than most 2 stroke set-ups I've used and /or witnessed.

I agree that pretty much all other gas set-ups are not desired in pattern for all the commonly expressed reasons. This new engine is a show changer in my opinion. About the only thing we want to overcome is the gasoline smell. Need to find a reliable source that will supply us 100LL Avgas

MattK

Thanks Atul and Rcpattern,

I&acute;m waiting more than 3 hours and the engine not start. Just in another day the engine work and just one fly and the problem starts. Do you know if the Cool Power 30/24 have a excess of oil for this engine? If the excess of oil make the diaphragm in the regulator stops and only after hours when the oilflow andthe engine work again? Its proceed?
Is normal use in this engine a injection syringe to force the fuel to engine?

I ran the 30/24 for a while in mine with no problems. That is a really strange issue that it runs fine the next day. Try the syringe method and see if that can help at all? If it does, I'll check with Richard at YS and see if gives us an answer.

Arch

Is the air can go IN the tank ? problem with one-way neeple ?

have you a picture of the tank manifold ?

I dont use a check valve on my vent line. Always created more problems than not. Never had an issue with fuel draining out. All the check valve on the vent line ever did was make the engine flood if the tank was full and it was warm outside as the tank would expand and force fuel into the engine. Since I pulled the check valve out I never had to clamp the fuel line at the end of a flight. Stopped all flooding issues.

I have had to "prime" the engine before by blowing into the vent line to force fuel to the pump if the engine has been sitting a while, but not on a regular basis.

Normally I can just open the throttle, turn off the igniton and put the starter on it and it will draw fuel immediately. It doesnt draw fuel very well at low throttle when dry, so I always open up the throttle and it will suck fuel immediately.


When you charge the battery on the ignition, how many mah are you putting back in after that 1 flight?

Arch

Bryan, both you and Matt K. mention that you stiffen the prop with CF. Would you mind expanding on that a bit? Is it woven cloth or plain straight fibers and what side of the prop do u apply the cloth?

Gas runs very clean, that’s for sure.... could even take out a spacer, to raise the compression to compensate for the lack of nitro....

Also...
It is time for the F3A to UPDATE there rules, instead of making a engine and aircraft manufactures comforming to
RIDICULUSS weight and size rules to which Gas engines and many aircrafts cannotCONFORM to!!!....
THIS is FAR from the f1 of aircrafts as F3A was once thought to be...
If they wanted to change with technology then they need to be WITH the TIMES and NOt running
against them!

Increase the SIZE limit of the plane, and Increase the weight limit....
This would benefit EVERYONE.... instead of chasing newcomers away...

Mark,

I believe Bryan does it on the apc nylon props just like dave Lockhart does. Dave discussed what he does with me a few months ago on his electric plastic props. He uses a combination of cloth on bias and mat nonwoven carbon. He only applied it on one side but to me there is even more benefit to apply the material on both sides.

I work with wood but laminated one plastic prop for Lochowski. My wood technique is straight forward....I buy XOAR electric wood props from Chief Aircraft and remove the finish. Then I epoxy a double layer of cloth, bias cut, to both sides. The layers are stretched a bit to increase the longetudinal component. Then I trim the cloth and get the balance close by removing some epoxy.

The assembly is then inserted into a top and bottom coccon made of 010" mylar sheet, the edges are taped closed and the whole thing inserted into a vacuum bag. After curing, trim and balance as necessary. Very sprty outcome.

The wood electric props are required to save me trimming and shaping of the thicker glow/gas props. The XOAR prop has an outstanding shape very similar to apc, which to me are the best there is. The electric laminated woodies are being used in glow/gas applications. Weight wise the outcome is unequaled...a 19x8 is 60 grams and a 19x10 just 3 grams more. A 20x10 is only 80 grams and a 19x13, 75grams

After I've run some props for a few hundred flights with a little help from my friends, eventually I will write an article for Model Aviation when I get some time.

MattK

Kochj,

As is being stated/reviewed in this thread, the reason people run glow instead of gas is because glow has a better power to weight ratio. It is physics, plain and simple. Changing the rules of the event will not change the physics. Increase the allowable size and weight, and the best performing planes will still be glow (or electric), just bigger and more expensive than they are now. Bigger and more expensive is certainly not going to attract new interest.

Regards,

Dave

Matt,

What I've been doing is a single layer of 3.5 oz CF cloth on 45 bias on BOTH sides of the blade. The torsional is greatly improved, and the spanwise strength is minimally improved (but I don't think greater spanwise strength is needed). I've not played with vacuum bagging, so I am using thick CA adher the cloth to prop. No doubt vacuum bagging would produce a nicer quality finish with less effort.

Regards,

Dave

I wish people would get off of the weight/size increase bandwagon. I can't afford to go bigger, both monitarily and due to space constraints as you can see in the attached photo. If you want to fly a large, gas powered airplane, fly IMAC.

As far as a bandwagon, I had just thought of this...
and wasn't aware of others wanting the change...

I think you are missing the point I was trying to make....
Weight can be offset by the increase in WS..

YOur airframes run over two GRAND.!.... and it's only 2Meters WS...?
A small increase in ws could easily be handled by a range of engines and electrics...

CHANGE YOUR PLANES? No....
The rules would let you run what you already had.... and keep running it....

That way, you would still keep your unwillingness to change...
and others that wanted to change COULD....