Gerrie,

Did you take a closer look at the wire to see whether it is separated from the cap? Also, did you secure the plug lead with a plastic tide? Sometime, if there is too much vibration, it can cause the wire to separate from the contact cap.

Adrian

Gerrie,

I agree with Adrian. Pay close attention to how you tie the wire off to the intake. You have ensure it is tied off to provide strain relief and not tied in a way as that it adds strain.

Arch

Adrian and Arch

(Adrian the glowdriver unit that I bought from from you in Portugal came in handy for for the rest of the comp. at that point in time)

Thanks for your inputs, here is what I did -when I swapped the heads I took a piece of exhaust deflector silicone tube and slipped it over the intake manifold pipe of the engine from where it exits the head up to the bracket the secures the fueltubing that goes to the injector.The plug lead was wrapped completely with the spiral wrap and tied down with a zip tie.It lined up nicely without any awkward angles -the silicone is quite thick.

There was some speration ,but not exessive , inside the cap it looked brand new.

Since I figured that warranty wont resolve this I let Walter open it and we saw that the components were secured by epoxy that was poured into the ignition box so nothing could vibrate loose there.

My regulators output is 5volt.(Jaccio)Also the pickup lead and other wires were wrapped with the smaller spiral wrap.

What I noticed was that after a flight, one could detect a slight temp. in crease on the ignition box.

Seems like a mystery doesn`t it?

GERRIE

Gerrie,

Glad to know the glow driver came in handy, it cost me quite a bit more to get a replacement because of the Japanese Yen ...

Anyway, I assume you have tried another spark plug, & also tried putting the plug cap against the cylinder & turn the spinner back & forth to see whether there were any sparks emits? The only other thing you can do now is to install it onto another 170 conversion. If there is still no sparks, then, you know it's the cdi box.

The cdi do runs a bit warmer, board line hotter than the regular 170. However, that should not be the reason why it stopped working. You can send unit to Richard Verano of YS Parts & Service here in the US, he will look into it for you.

Good luck,

Adrian

Gerrie
Can you check the next thing?
First, you can remove an ignition plug from a engine head, and set it in a plug cap of CDI.
Then, turn on the power supply of CDI.
Short-circuit 1,3pin of the sensor input connector of CDI.
And, open it.
At that time, can you confirm electric discharge on an ignition plug?
If it was so, a cause was shown in the following.
1) A hall sensor broke down.
2) An electric wire was open between a hall sensor and CDI. [:-]
kobago

Same thing happened on the worlds to a friend of mine, it was a bad hall sensor, I installed one of mine on his engine(from my spare engine) and was lucky enough Yamada gave me a new replacement unit there to reassemble mine.
If the CDI gets a little warm is because is not discharging, so it looks like the hall sensor is bad, like Kobago said.

Thanks guys,

now we have an indication on what to look for,I was worried that it was me doing something wrong, actually very simple engine to run, -this is a really nice engine,very,very light on fuel and low ideling- I used the special plug that Mr Yamada gave me in Portugal {thinner electrode/pin inside}

THX
Gerrie

I finally got to fly the new engine after running almost a gallon through it on gthe ground. The first few flghts were run with the engine really rich...almost 2 turns out on the HS and the pump at the factory setting. By the last flight I was in to 1and1/4 at the HS and 1/8 out at the pump. Still I only got 7mins out of the 16oz tank...not quite enough for the full P-11 sequence. I got more than 10mins out of 20oz with the non-CDI so I assume this will improve to at least 8mins.

I'm going to switch to Cool Power LS after a few more flights...the 17X12 will also be replaced by an 18.1X11, surely I should get 9-10mins.

Addtionally, the rx current consumption was pretty high at 1100mAhr for 35mins of flying. This is same as what I was getting with the non-CDI engine...not sure if that's beacause of how rich I ran the engine or just a limitation of the AR70 mount.

On the positve side, starts were easy and the engine was quite and smooth with good breaking for a 17X12.

Any comments?

Colin.

Something funny is going on, because with a 16 oz tank and those needle settings you should be getting about 13-14 minutes of flight time, at least. Maybe you have fuel spilling out of your vent during the flight? Somethings not right.

Colin,

You wont see a significant fuel reduction until you start running lower oil content fuel. When the percentage of actual burnable fuel goes up as the oil content goes down you will be able to really lean the needle. While you can lean the needle some because the CDI is more efficient there is still a lot of oil that isn't getting burnt. When running the heli fuel you are going to have a good smoke trail no matter how lean you go on the needle until it is too lean. I can get about 10-11 minutes on a 16oz tank running 30% LS. Changing to the LS fuel definitely helped with this as it wasn't quite as good with that standard Cool Power Heli. When i ran the lower oil content fuel I was able to get that up to 13-14 minutes, but I didn't like running the engine with that little lubricant.

You wont see a major current reduction just by going to the CDI. The engine will run a little smoother, but it still shakes. The AR70 is a good mount, but it doesn't work as well as the AR85 obviously. With my CDI through the RX I'm using about 225-250 mah per 10 minute flight, so you really arent that far off as I would be around 750-800mah for 35 minutes of flying.

Arch

The vent has a check valve on it and it's inside the fuse so I would have noticed the leakage.

I'm going to continue to lean the HS to 1 turn out over the next 5-10 flights, then switch to the LS fuel and the bigger prop. If I'm not getting 10 mins or more I'll have to re-evaluate the smaller tank.

Colin.

Is any of you guys using just 1 battery for Rx and ignition?
I need to eliminate 1 battery to get under 11lb. I fabricated a "Y' connector en order to plug both switches, one for Rx and other for ignition. I have not test fly yet. How do you connect yours? I'm flying with a JR9303 on 2.4 Mghz.

Any comments/suggestions will be welcome.

Rene Grebe

I run straight from the receiver.. 2600mah ion and alt regulator. no issues, 1gal of fuel per charge for me about 8-10 flights using on average 1800mah for those flights.

The type of fuel, prop selection, throttle management & rpm all affects the fuel consumption.

I'm using Coolpower 20% nitro heli with 18.5x12 wpn at 7,200 to 7,300 rpm, & I hardly go over 3/4 throttle on P, a few burst of 3/4 throttle for F, and I can easily get 13 minutes out of the 16 oz tank. My high needle is about 1-3/4.

As for battery, one 4.8V, 2,000 mAh ni-mh, good for at least 3 flights before recharging.

Adrian

I'm fairly new to the 170 CDI application, but so far I I've been using an 18.1x10 for break-in and after about 18 flights, have it leaned to 1 1/4 turns, using a little over 1/2 of a 16 oz tank for 1 trip through the Masters sequence. This is with a 50-50 mix of 30% and 15% Cool Power Heli fuel.

To power the CDI unit, I have a dual Tech-Aero regulator setup to the receiver with an 850 mAH pack for each, and then a Tech-Aero IBEC to run the CDI. I get 5 flights and still have about 40% capacity left in each battery. It's a JR 2.4 setup, dual elevator servos and so forth in a Prestige.

Some more issues to resolve with the new CDI 170...I've got 25 flights now, switched to the 18.1X11 and have been gradually turning in the HS needle to 1 1/4 turns. Now however, I seemed to lost the speed and authority on up-lines and have had to fly WOT...never was close to that on my old 170.

On the ground it's turning 7600 rpm on 30% LS, 18.1X11, pump 1/4 turn out from flush and HS at 1 to 1 1/4 turns.

The engine is pretty cool so I don't think it's lean. Going in past 1 turn did'nt yeld much more rpm (7700 peak). Right now I don't have enough power to fly in the wind and need help quick as I have a contest this weekend.

The engine starts super easy and runs up with no issues, no fuel leaking, engine is cool upon landing...it just does'nt have the torque. I get the impression it already has 400 flights.

Any ideas? I'm going to check valve clearances now.

Colin.

Valves would be my first suspicion. Also, check the line that runs down the front of the engine from the crank case to the pump. Sometimes if that gets a tiny hole in it it will create a lack of power, but then other symptoms will start, but at first it just doesn't turn up like it should.

Arch

Valve clearances are Ok. However, there was quite a bit of fuel in under the valve cover. Additionally, compression is not very impressive for a new motor.

Colin

Does the engine actually have over 400 flights, or, it feels like an engine with over 400 flights? If it's over 400 flights, it's time to think bearings & piston ring changes.

Have you also check the screws on the cylinder head & the back plate? What about the spark plug, the spark plug wire & the connector between the cdi & the rx? If you have 7,600 to 7,700, you should have more than enough power for even the F sequence, unless your plane is grossly over weight. I'm only turning 7,300 to 7,400 on 20% heli, with power to spare.

You should also get one of those temperature gauge, and measure the temp after your flight. Mine reads about 145 F right after landing, shot up to about 165 a minute later. Then, backs down rapidly.

If your engine is operating correctly, then, may be it's a ventilation problem.

Adrian

No, it's a new motor with just 25 flights on it. It's replacing a standard 170 that I ran in the Integral for 320 flights so I have a good idea what the power should feel like. This motor started out well but the power has faded over the last 5 flights.

I also just started running the LS fuel...1 gallon through it.

7600 seems ok on the ground but if others are getting 7500 with 19X11 then I would be expecting closer to 8K with 18.1X11.

Colin

Colin,

Another thing to check is make sure there are no air leaks. You can get a bolt loose on the backplate that will hurt your top end power, but wont change the rest a great deal. A lot of times after 20-30 flights things will start working their way loose and its a good idea to go back and check all the bolts. One loose one can give you all kinds of fits.

Archie

And Arch knows all about having a screw loose.....

I checked the head bolts so far...I'll remove the motor and check the back plate next. Should there be alot of fuel under the rocker cover?

Is it possible that I'm still running it too rich?

It idles very rough if I try to go lower than 1900...many have stated smooth idles at 1400.

On the uplines, if it were a simple 2-stroke, I would say it was lean as the rpm just fades but there is quite a bit of smoke even with the 30% LS. I have always had difficulty determining if a 170 is running too lean or too rich.

I also had problems with this motor during the break and found some swarf under the pump...I guess I'll check there again.

Any more advise is appreciated.

Colin.

You could be still rich on the bottom and that would account for the idle, but it sounds like it might be sucking air somewhere on the long verticals, which makes me think of a backplate bolt being loose.

Common points to have air leaks are:

Pushrod o-rings
valve cover
back plate
intake pipe o-rings (although you don't see this very often)