2Sunny

So as a beginner Sportsman competitor, I am amazed at the wealth of knowledge I gain each time I fly with a more experienced pilot, and I'm hoping this thread might coax out a few small "gems" from the community at large.

So what insights do you remember as most formative in your years of training? What tricks did you use to teach your thumbs the right moves? Did you plateau ever, and if so how did you "break through".


For me my biggest insight so far has been learning to use rudder while performing a slow roll. I still can't do it right, but the idea of using slight rudder instead of pure elevator never occurred to me. Guess I should start with a good book . . .


Anyways, I'd love to hear from y'all!



Joe

Derek.Koopowitz

My biggest "AHA" was figuring out what "wings' level" truly means... a number of years ago Iwas told of a good trick to figuring out what wings level meant by a good friend. None of the people I'd flown with ever mentioned to me, or told me,a way to figure out what it meant but all it took was this "AHA" moment from a friend while practising for the Australian Nats back in 1998 (or 1999). He noticed that on just about every push/pull Iwas using a lot of rudder to straighten my vertical line and he told me that it was because my wings weren't level. Since then, and using a lot of practise, I've gotten a lot better at not using rudder during those pulls/pushes because my wings are "level".

So what's the trick? Ican't tell you - might have to fly against you one day!

Kidding... the trick/secret is to always look for your outboard wing from underthe plane. If you don't see it then your inboard wing is low and if you see too much of it then your outboard wing is too low. You just need to figure out, based on your own plane, what level really is and then ensure that you only have "so" much of that wing on the outside showing when you fly across the box (left to right, or right to left).

2Sunny

See now that's what I'm talkin' about!!!!!!

I have a problem which my main coach C. Moon pointed out to me of always coming into my two loops off level, but he didn't give me any clues to fix that and your reference is fabulous. Can't wait to try and look for that in my next practice!

By the way . . . nice photo on K-Factor



Joe

flyintexan

My Feedback: (1)

One of those other moments....same idea as Derek here....make certain your wings are not rolled toward you when exiting a box end manuever.  Such as exiting a stall turn at the end of the box.  Some pilots (me[:@]) have a tendency to want to see the entire span of the wing when the plane is on the downline and ready to exit the manuever.  This results in an exit that ends up pointing the nose of plane toward you (coming in).

You are lucky to have Chris M. helping you out.

-mark

Rendegade

MIne recently has been that roll inputs are not always equal, especially with some of the scale aerobats. What am I saying? well, when you do something like a rolling circle with large rudder inputs, you may find that opposite rudder to aileron will SLOW the roll, meaning you need more for a given roll rate. Conversely when rudder is applied  in the same direction as the aileron, the roll will speed up, so if you juast hang on the stick and do a rolling circle it will go slooow-fast!-sllowwww-fast!, so judicious use of the ailerons is needed.

This also applies to up and down line rolls, as the plane speeds up and slows down you need to be on the ailerons less or more depending to get that nice smooth roll rate.

Not that I've managed to perfect any of this mind you, but it was a big AHA moment for me!

Hans Meij

The TBM article was the first that gave me the idea, so this is what it is about.

http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/ns/learn/awesomepilot/

and the following chapters
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/ns/le...x.shtml#rudder

Many aha's are to be found here also. This was my last one:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8756812/tm.htm

jim woodward

Derek andMark hit the nail on the head. Wings level is fundamental #1. A good rule is to pick a baseline where you must see the bottom of the outboard wing to be level. However, wings level on a downline and exit radius, setting up for the next maneuver without the need for corrections, is HUGEagrea of skill growth. If you can do this consistently, you are on the fast track!!

For theadvanced pilot - the key Derek also stated is to "stop" using rudder. How doyou do this? Learn better what"wings-level" looks like in all facets of the maneuvers: top of box, uplines, downlines,over the top of maneuvers, and inverted.Learn tofly the ailerons better...
Thanks,
Jim

MHester

My Feedback: (1)

Another vote for wings level. That's probably one of the bigger "aha" moments that has immediate and noticable results.

There are a lot of small ones. But probably another big one that comes up is learning how much power to use in different conditions, and learning to keep power on a lot more in windy conditions, especially in places you normally wouldn't be comfortable with it. That might depend a lot on the plane, but it's essential in mastering the "other stick".

-Mike

AAbdu

My Feedback: (18)

Wings level has been a problem for me so I hope to adopt Derek's suggestion. In terms of already adopted Ah HAs I have the following:

When I moved up to intermediate the pattern had a triangle non rolling loop. Since I rarely push or pull with the wings level I learned to dread flying inverted over that long top becasue the nose would either be coming in or going out and I would always give wrong rudder! I tried correcting with alierons, but no amount of roll fixes that without making it look horrible. I often just let if fly crooked for fear of making things worse. One day I saw an article on how to determine the correct rudder imput while inverted;

When looking at the plane inverted you want to push the rudder stick the way you want the plane/wing to go. So if you are flying inverted left to right and the nose is coming in, it will look like the inboard wing is further back than it needs to be, just give right rudder and that will move the inboard wing to the right and move the nose out  

Before reading that I was baffled about which direction rudder to give while inverted. After that it became a no brainer! now if I could only master that wings level trick!

Anthony

P.S. I would give credit to the original author if I had any idea who it was.

jonlowe

My Feedback: (12)

The inverted rudder stick trick was my biggest AHA moment, taught to me by the late, great Jim Ivey. He spent about an hour with me after one contest and taught me more about fundamentals in that one session as an intermediate pilot than I have learned before or after in a single session. I wish that I could have spent more time with him before he passed. Whenever I give that trick to a new pilot, I credit Jim for it.

Jon

jrpav1

My Feedback: (17)

I learned that technique (let's not call it a "trick" - that sounds so "unprofessional" - LOL) from Scott Smith. Works great and it's easy to train yourself to do it.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

wagen017

Joe, this is a great thread! Keep them coming please!!!! [8D]

Volkert

wattsup

My Feedback: (1)

Jon, Thanks for giving Jim Ivey credit. Jim had a positive impact on a large number of pattern flyers here in District III.___TNWalker

mikehannah

Hi
Ilike the stuff on Troybuilt but i do kind of object to the three years bit between steps 1 and 2 could put people off trying pattern.


M

2Sunny

Great input! Without a doubt I have yet to master wings level and I will be working hard on that from now on.


I love talking to more experienced pattern folk because everyone seems to have a wealth of knowledge that they're willing to share.


I only hope I can speed up the "three year" learning curve, but I'm sure with the help of my Awesome Coach and all the great learning to be had here on RCU I'll beat that by a mile



Joe

1bwana1

The rudder is the devils own surface, sorting out which way to push it causes dyslexia in most people. It was driving me nuts, so one day I spent some time on the simulator and developed a simpleset of rulesfor determining the right way to push my rudder stick. It seems to be a variation of the one mentioned earlier. Here are my rules.

Top Rudder:

1.) If I am looking at the canopy, Top Rudder is moving the stick towards the tail of the plane.

2.) If I am looking at the gear, Top Rudder is moving the stick toward the nose.

No matter which way the plane is flying, no matter whether you are starting the roll from upright, or inverted, these two rules solve the Top Rudder direction. Really simple, and becomes natural very quickly.

Correcting my line:

1.) If the plane is upright going away, watch the nose of the plane. Push the rudder stick the way you want the nose to go.

2.) if the plane is inverted going away, watch the tail of the plane. Push the rudder stick the way you want the tail to go.

3.) If the plane is comming towards you, upright watch thetail, inverted watch the nose. In all cases, push the stick the way the end you are watching needs to go.

Again, all you end up doing is changing which end of the plane you are watching( directing) and push the stick the way you want it to move. It quickly becomes natural, and you end up doing it without even thinking.

Jim Grunt

The first time for me was flying the intermediate sequence with no zeros. This is an extremely fun but addicting hobby that keeps throwing you curveballs but with practice you learn to hit them. I can tell you straight and level is the most important thing, emphasis on level. Practice a lot but have fun doing it even if it means taking abeater plane to the field to fly between sequences. P. S. Having awesome pilots around you to fly would helps also. Jim

Rendegade

Also a good traing trick for the rudder (we all know which way to swing it when you're upright, RIGHT?) is fly inverted flat ciruits and 8's untill the rudder inputs become natural. It'll also help you get your rudder and ailerons co-ordinated for flat turns, which will help in knife edge flying.

It's something I do on the last flight of the day, just a few circuits and 8's to keep those neurons fresh.

guille2006

I had two "AHA" opportunities in my life:

1- Futaba U8 manual tells how to setup setup a plane and how to "read" this setup while you see it in flight (CoG position, rigth commands throw and so on).
2- My wife gave me for christmass the "Aerobatics for everyone" dave patick's book. It's old and far from the actual pattern but, who cares? IT'S FULL OF TRICKS AND TEACHeS A LOT!!!!!

Besides the specific learnings i had from those two books, they open my mind to new ways of understanding the plane and its maneuvering.

regards!!

Guille

snaproll4

I also received the "push the plane away system" from Buff Miller in 1997.  It made a huge difference in my scores and it is instinctive today.

I was flying in a contest in 1996 in Columbus, OH in intermediate class.  During the 3 loops my heading got a little skewed and my caller, Arch Stafford,  whispered "right rudder".  I could tell from his voice he didn't want a lot, just a little.  Right rudder went in and the plane straightened out.  AHA !!!

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Today was one of them - I tried flying a couple of the intermediate maneuvers (I forget if there's a humpty bump in intermediate) and realized "Aha! I really do suck at this!"

Rendegade

Hahaha!!!

Guess what, when we all started we sucked at it. Now most of us suck a little less.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Yes there is a humpy bump in Intermediate,gaRCfield.

I'm practicing and waiting on the "Ah Ha!" moment for rudder control. Ihave it down in normal flight, but inverted I still screw up most of the time. Troy says it will just suddenly click when Ifinally "get it", but its a frustrating road. All the tricks mean nothing when your brain just tells your fingers wrong. :-)

can773

My Feedback: (1)

I think for me a couple of the most important things has been

- Quality of practice (ie: having a coach) is far more important that the quantity of practice.  Otherwise you will get very good at not flying properly!
and
- Sometimes the best practice is not practicing at all.....in other words flying too much is as big a disservice as flying too little is, you need to learn your limit.

2Sunny

Now that is funny!But like the man said . . . I gotta believe we all start to suck a little less each day




My latest minor "Aha" came when I copied my Angel settings to my new Inspire 90 settings and when I tried the flap setting the plane went into a perfect landing pitch attitude and flew at an unbelievable slow speed, but when I got the plane on the ground I found that the ailerons were acting as spoilers and NOT flaps, but somehow the combination of high pitch attitude and lift destruction made for a great landing configuration. Then after talking to other pattern pros I found out that this is commonly used by some of the best. Who knew . . .



Joe