hi guys try this place for ripstop its cheap and exellent quality too,never had a problem with them either and they deliver fast too.by the way for battens i allways use the thin plastic stuff you get on cartons ,you know the see through stuff you get on kids toy boxes etc.i cut it to length and attach to the sails using double sided tape.it never lets go even in high winds and rain.in fact i never sew my sails ever i allways use double sided tape for all seems etc any stationers sell the tape.[link]http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Fabrics-n-Stuff_Ripstop-Proofed-Nylon_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm[/link]

Hi multifast,thanks for your tips,all info gratefully received.A book called Frank Bethwaite High Performance Sailing which has reference ISBN 1 85310 757 3 .Try your local library first ,because it is not a cheap book to buy. Ok it is for the high performance 18ft. skiffs which can get up to 35knts,but there is a wealth of information regarding sail, hulls,sailtrimming for different weather and waves.It is a very easy to read book.We have used it to develope our flexy rigs,and in choppy water,do just as Bethwaite says,they flex in and out like mad,and I don't mean dump the wind.In calm weather they behave just like an ordinary sail.The only difference is they are all swing rig,and no rigging except on the top rig,which carries a set back diamond.the reason for this is that in order to increase the very small amount of camber I tighten the diamond up which pulls more bend into the top part of the mast but retains its stiffness to side bend.It is the rig on the videos.Kite shops do a good trade with their carbon fibre and fibreglass tube and rods,the fibreglass rod is only used for the very top of the mast.we find that 8mmc/f tube is ok for all weathers,the 6mm tube slides inside this.So by playing around with them you can find out how much 6mm tube you need to get any bend you need in the mast overall.The pintal for the rig to swivel on is opposite to the standard practice.
It is minimum length of 15cm long and is about 4mm thick piano wire it must fit inside the 8mm c/f tume mast.It must have at least 55mm available for the rig to swivel on,and then enough for the rig to miss fittings on deck.I found for the swivel mounting to the hull use a bit of alu.mast tube[1M class will do],drive some wood dowel down it,drill the centre for your swivel to fit in,this to stop the wood splitting from the strain.[Yes you've guessed right]I learnt from my mistake! If you want any more info just ask,as it is an on-going task at the moment.Regards Scotty

hi scotty i hope you dont mind but i posted a pic of your boat on another site and if your interested im sure they would love to hear more about your ideas heres a link to the site cheers .[link]http://www.rcsailing.net/forum1/showthread.php?p=39092#post39092[/link]

Hi martno1fan,No problems,but they seem to want a multi that looks pretty,as was the reply last time they were shown the foamy floats.So once again I will impress upon people,these are not what my mate and I were doing.We were not interested in how it looks we know a multihull can look superb and work really well and impress with speed,that is what they are about.But we as many other people were looking at ironing out the problems faced by model multihulls if at all possible.If you know the problem you can then attempt to overcome it.I shudder to think of the cost of the number of floats we would have had to make/buy and the time used up doing this,when all we wanted to do is apply more or less rocker.But one thing I know from dingy racing was If you capsized you very rarely won that race,in model multi racing you have no chance at all!We have evolved a fast stable platform[Yes it will if pushed too hard capsize] a lot of which goes away from traditional ideas,some of which, is because we are dealing with models only.Look at the 3D model aircraft electric flight and what fun people get out of them,they look roughly like a real aircraft,but out fly the real thing in what they can do.My message is,get out there and do it in whatever way you can.It is great fun,and you learn a lot,but only if you want to.How fast are our multihulls ??I have not a clue !But I get a great deal of pleasure and upset[pardon the pun]from sailing these magnificant multihulled model yachts.[>:] Scotty

Hi again i think if you check it out Dick Lemke is trying to put together an easy built multi for newbies to try so i think your idea is the way to go.Rather than spending days or weeks making floats i think a few hrs doing it your way makes sense.Now youve solved a few broblems do you plan on putting these ideas into a propper multi ?.

Hi martno1fan,As all our ideas etc. are common to multihulls and sometimes mono hulls,I agree they should be open for all to have a look at,but ongoing ideas are not an option.I agree with Dick
that they are not aesthetically a boat to swoon over,and in England we did find quite a lot of,even agro from some of the rc fraternity sailing monos.Well yeah we did cause havoc at the beggining.
Like failing to complete a tack in front of the fleet,or capsizing at the start line!!!?[:-].Now we just sail clear of them,as we very rarely do that kind of thing.But we still do not have anybody interested
in the simple idea.I think Dick wants a simple multi designed as a multi,that can be raced as well.The only thing I would like to see is, give it every chance of being developed and keep restrictions down to a minimum.When I see rules applied to a rigidly controlled rig,saying things like,
You cannot hook this to the top of mast or mast crane,it must have a proper hole drilled in the mast to take it because it may allow the boat to gain 5mm in fourteen point three years under perfect condition.I weep Just think how much you loose by one bad tack!!'nuff said.Yes I will try and pass on bits of info,but as to designing a multihull of good performance I will leave that to the designers,I don't have any software to help me and I would rather go sailing in summertime.

I think some things need to be straightened out on here, regarding Hulls and the way some can be made!! There is nothing new about making quick moulds for Multihulls or monohulls. Radio Controlled Model Multihulls, icluding Foilers, have been raced at meetings in this country since the sixties, and I have the photos to prove it!!!!! This whole Forum Thread started by someone asking whether anybody else had or was building Model Multihulls! Yes they have, many of them of all sizes, and been doing so Radio Ciontrolled since the fifties!!
All sorts of things have been used to make Hulls and floats, and all sorts of methods of making GRP quick moulds used! There is nothing 'NEW' about it!! Dick Lemke and I have E mailed each other for some eight or so years, discussing ways of making hulls for The MINI40(F48 in the US), and introducing the M1M or 1M Multi Class of racing using present available products, such as Standard 1M hulls. The use of Foamy floats, originally for 1M Ctamarans was fully developed and continued into M1M Tris by Tricat and Mr X, and also by me!
I also find it somewhat amusing when a particular person on this Forum Thread, is now writing on this other site as 'we' do this, 'we' do that, and yet he has still to build and use any Multihull himself!!! Suddenly picking up information from other people makes him out to be someone who knows all about Multihulls???? Talk about telling others 'how to suck eggs'!! Maybe they should think more that they are just catching up on what has been happening out in the big world out there for DECADES!

wow you really do have a chip on you shoulders dont you? all i did was pass on information to Dick about tris ideas there is nothing wrong with that at all.as for trying to sound like i know everything well maybe you should take a hard look at your self mate.as for building a tri i will be doing so but time and money are a problem for me at the moment hence the reason i plan to do one like scottys.im a fully time served boat builder but i dont claim to know everything about building boats nor would i ever be so pompouse to claim i do.also i have NEVER claimed i did this or that i stated that scotty had built a boat using the pipe insulators and flexi beams.it seems to me you have a bee in your bonnet for some reason .i must say though if you are typical of the people who sail multi classes over here then no wonder no one wants to bother ,your attitude is all wrong mate enough said .ive got far better things to get on with than waste time talking to you thats for sure ,youve posted a handfull of comments on the forum and two have been started by having a dig at me.im done with this thread when i start my build ill be starting a new one feel free not to comment, if you cant say anything nice say nowt as they say.good luck with your boat scotty and above all have fun thats what its all about after all isnt it??.

no but the sound good

Multiman - and others........

just thought I would register and pop in now and then to read of UK News. I used to be kept up-to-date by a multihull oriented friend, but his passing has left a void in knowing what is being done over there.

As mentioned in a post by someone else here, I am in the process of trying to develop an easy and quick way to fabricate hulls - two or three - at minimal cost, effort or required skills and equipment. I probably am also the guy who posted that I like asthetics of a multihull - but a bit of my original response/post was left off - and that specifically was that the idea of using foam for floats, and being able to bend/shape as a "development" tool is a great idea - but somehow I think ("think") may be putting some off. That is what I originally said - and suggested that once the design, rocker, location, etc. were confirmed, it would be nice to see the hulls converted to traditional materials. Mainly to improve looks at the risk of adding a bit of weight.

My general idea is to fabricate slab sides with shaped foam tops and bottoms. In any event, I won't clutter up this forum with duplicate postings, and look forward to the continued ideas and suggestions brought forward here by others. One issue I had was that of battens - and I see where it was asked and answered. Hopefully, down the line I will be able to help in similar fashion with things I have learned or know. I hope that I do not take on the appearances of someone who knows it all. I usually comment from experience and knowledge - and may throw in some "theory" but hopefully that will be identified as such. My postings should also eliminate the need to be partially quoted, or to have my ideas mentioned in an out-of-character manner. I am capable of making my own posts and will respond to questions if at all possible.

In the meantime, I will look forward to information and ideas shared here.

Regards

Hi and welcome Dick L,

Any information that you can add to this Forum is very welcome from the US view point! We have had many years of discussing Multihulls between us, and I know your view points will be welcome here! Both you and I have been making Model Multis for many years in the F48 (US) and MINI40 Class(Europe).

Going down in size and trying to get a pretty boat that works is the challenge using convemtional MINI40 (F48) materilas, as the boats which Tricat and Mr X have using Foamy Floats are pretty damn quick and are so light with it!! At the moment over here, trying to look 'pretty' and more acceptable to the average guy is harder to get to sail as well, and that is the challenge. Once that is overcome, then I think the smaller sized Class will be far more followed by the expensive and time consuming MINI40 (F48) Class. The present M1Ms over here, take no more than a few seconds in putting a fin in, a Rig on and switch the radio gear on and off you go!! A far cry from having to rig three hulls together(if you only had a small vehicle and then rig those prestressed Sails on masts!

You did show me a very good looking 1M Tri that you had come up with. Maybe you could show the others on here a photo what you have been doing across the Pond!

Hi DICK L, and welcome also.I do agree with your project of getting a simple design put together,and using as many GOOD ideas as can be put forward so that they can be sorted out and used or not.As you have no doubt gathered the foamy hulls that my mate came up with are superb for testing,but they can only give variations on an ellipse which has been good for what we wanted.From it all we found we had invented a thing we call a WHEEL !!!!!???? I think this is what progress runs on ?Stability in most weathers,a fair turn of speed,and in the end a good test bed.It cost approx. £100 [not including radio gear]to put together,including a brand new hull with the fin box and rudder tube,[a Dave Cread 1M Slim Chance hull]We used an arm winch for the snappy response and easy of setting up.
We decided the swing rig was ideal,quick to change rigs,we heard reports of them been tricky to use etc.,This I feel that has been disprooved by the fact we use them at all times and have no trouble at all with them.Perhaps this is because we now use dumpy rigs
except for the top rig.The dumpy rig has a masthead jib with a large fully battened mainsail, which has junk style battens[very stiff].
It is too stiff for medium winds unless there are heavy gusts up in the 20knt region.the area of this middle rig is about 830 sq ins.It is not much more than 1metre tall.If you click my gallery you will see photos to give you an idea of what I mean.Also if you go to www.rcuvideo and type in Klingon 5 you will find 2 short videos of my multi with top rig which is roughly 930sq ins.I hope that gives you enough info for now.If you have any questions I will be happy to supply answers especially on our flexy rig or our flexing cross beams which greatly help stability in gusty weather.Regards Scotty

Thank you all for the welcome.

My original (Prototype) 1 Meter trimaran was given to a local home-town friend who wanted to get into multihulls - but didn't want to build. Since it was a prototype for me (first off from my design) and a way to experiment with shaped foam for plugs for main hull and floats - it had pretty much served it's purpose. I removed sails and radio gear and gave it to him. He has since fitted the boat with a rig from an old, 36/600 (inch) monohull and it has a strange looking main. That class - popular here in the US allows a triangle area of up to 600 square inches, but allows unlimited roach up to 2 inches from the triangle which is unmeasured. Thus, it is probably close to 800 sq. inches or so - similar to an older Marblehead. Anyway, he is using my old boat for fun sailing, and I am building a newer design with a bit more buoyancy in the floats. No changes to initial drawings yet - as I want to see how well it works out. As noted - the design was called "IMPULSE" and the idea was to build a trimaran using a main hull and two duplicate floats. OR - if one has such an "impulse"

One other way to make tempory testing Model Floats and hulls, is to have a stiff spar, say of Carbon? Grp tube or a small section of Hardwood, say 18 X 25 which is the support along the top side of a White Foam Float (Polystyreene Foam). This Foam, as used in packaging, is not good against impacts, however for testing different shaped hulls, they can easily be made by carving and sanding, covering again with the infamous Cling Film, and attached to the Spine. These Spaines can be secured easily to Beams, and within a few minutes try a design out. It costs very little if you buy a sheet of it from a DIY Store.
There are two sorts of this Foam I have come across. One is tighter smaller cells and the other larger. The Larger cells that make up the Foam tend to 'break-out' as you sand it. However, by using a coarse grade of Paper, you can sand it down using light brushing strokes. The best is the other closer cell Foam, which you can get some really good finishes on.
When you have decided on a particular shape to your Hull/Float, you can then Divide the lenght up equally, cut through at these stations, and that will give you a profile of that Station. Using these Profiles you can then make Bulkheads say for a Balsa Model or for a GRP Plug.

Hi guys !?? I have just found out that my sailcalc on my broadsheet had a incorrect formulae in it
with the result my top rig had 200 sq.ins to much!!!!The only good thing to come out of this is that the speeds my multihull has been getting has been true to the actual sail but not its calculated area.
I am in the process of checking both my sailcalcs,to make sure they are correct.You see it pays to have a cold as it forces you to do other things in your misery.Like checking sail areas by hand[ie.not using calculator]It's time I asked the spiders to vacate my multihull,or learn to swim!If you read this Idealist ,how is your new multi coming along?Come on guys it's sailing time again !Regards to all
Scotty

sorry to hear about that scotty ,by the way ill be trying out the pipe insulators soon 42 pence in B&Q cant be bad lol.first i need to finnish my gas boat which shouldnt be too long now.

You can contact this [email protected] as they have built the modern catamaran Lagoon 500 Model. Their website www.qualitymodelboats.com[link=http://www.gianhien.net/retail/all/galleryp.htm]http://www.gianhien.net/retail/all/galleryp.htm[/link]

did i miss something? what did you link that site for? or you just trying to sell something?.

Hi Martno1fan,I have got some sketches for fitting foam floats to hulls.It may look flimsy but I think up to two years of hard sailing speaks for it's self. I have put them on my gallery.

cheers mate ill check them out but im in the middle of building this boat from scratch for a 28 cc weedy engine.so it will have to wait a while .

Anything new on the multihull front - designs, plans, new builds, etc. ?

MultiFast -

stopped by to see you this past weekend. How are you doing with the refurb of my old trimaran? Hope you get it tuned up and ready for some summer action on the water. In the meantime, thought I would advise what is going on:

Not sure if any of you guys from the U.K. have noticed, but there is a move afoot to start a new class on an international basis - tentatively called the "1/10 Scale" class. Originally it is a French monohull class with most of the boats being scale of the VOR 60 and 70 monohull boats, or scale models of some of the newer crop of sportsboats like a Farr 40 - although in the rules we kind have informally agreed to, nothing prohibits a 1/10 scale of an existing trimaran or catamaran. We have confirmation of Canada, US, Aussie and perhaps a New Zealand building effort taking place. Thought I would get the word out to some who haven't heard about the class, boats, etc. and maybe tie in multihulls as well.

Basically, the rules "suggest" the class is for scale builders first, and racers secondary. Making the boat look like it's big brother or sister is the effort. Several 1/10 scale hardware suppliers are already on-board. Unfortunately ( or fortunately) I have decided on a VOR 60 for my initial build effort, which gives me an (arrgh) monohull boat of about 72 inches in length and having a beam of about 21 inches.

Perhaps there is one or more of you interested in doing an ORMA 60 (or bigger) scale of your favorite trimaran? Groupama seems to be often imitated, so at this size and scale, it would produce one huge and possibly beautiful model. This is not a class for everyone - in fact it may be a reserved class for experienced builders only, since these are all scratch-built boats.

Just thought those of you who love multihulls might have an interest in this class. Maximum size is limited to a scale model of a boat no larger than 100 feet (although there is an exception for a J Boat) and really no small end scale - except for what is practical. Perhaps the 40 foot in-shore cats from recent VOR race might make a good (and much smaller) choice. Or a scale model of the 60 foot catamaran, Stars & Stripes wingsail America's Cup defender? Nothing prohibits a Hobie 16 or a NACRA Formula 18 either. Just so they are 1/10 scale of the original boat. The idea is that boats in this class "LOOK" like a real boat - not a one-design looking IOM, so if interested, I invite you to consider.

Hi Dick -

wife got to door just as you backed out of the driveway and said you had stopped by. I am away on business, so am answering via hotel network. VERY SLOW !

If I can ever return home and stay long enough, I want to get the tri done and back on the water. May need your help if inishing up the raido equipment.

As I read your post, it looks like you might be contemplating one of those 1/10 scale monsters. If it is a multihull it would be awesome. In fact, even a monohull would create quite a stir on the pond. Remember to stay under 12 feet, or the DNR will require a registration sticker for the boat !

We need to get together when I get back to discuss the cedar strip project too. Stay well. MultiFAST

Hello again.

I was reading your post, and I have seen people talking about 'FOAMY' hulls. You say these are cheap and good. I have built a Ghost train rig and main hull, really neatly and smoothly, and installed the RC equipment. However, the sponsons are a different story. I made a mould out of foam, covered it in tin foil, glasses it, removed the foam, and glasses another. I then filled the hull it expanded foam, and cut off the tp, giving a neat, flat top. I covered this in glass fibre, then filled in all the gaps in silicone. Hower, this is still a bit messy. What are these 'FOAMY' hulls, and would these be appropriate? I know that I should have a curved top on the top of the sponsons (I do on the main hull), but I couldn't work out how to do this quickly, easily and cheaply. I am doing this on a very low budget. My plan to stop it pitchpoling is to put all the wight right at the back - batteries, rudder servo, and ossibly a small amount of ballast, to make the boat sit in the water with the bow out of the water.


Another area that I am unsure about is the rudder wing. I have made the rudder as the plans say, but it does not clearly show what the wing is or where it goes. It says it should be set to -1. Is this -1 degree?

Many thanks for your help,

Andrew Cowan

two words for you mate pipe insulators from B&Q !!.