Eindecker EIII
03-09-2013, 05:27 PM
#327
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: Billy Clink
Tim does That mean we all have to dress in cotumes ? It really is for the kids !
Tim does That mean we all have to dress in cotumes ? It really is for the kids !
Well we digress...sorry Art there was a lull in the action.
03-10-2013, 08:03 AM
#330
RE: Eindecker EIII
On second thought, maybe I should post something.......
Ok, after some field testing and lots of discussion, I am replacing the original stab with a new sheeted stab.
I am using 1/8" balsa sheeting top and bottom with an inner structure of 3/8" balsa sticks.
I am using the trailing edge from the original stab - it is hardwood and will add a lot of stiiffnes and strenght to the stab. I will also back up the leading edge with another piece of hardwood stick.
I think the elevators will also be restructured in the same fashion, using only balsa wood.
The first step is to edge glue some sheet stock together.
Ok, after some field testing and lots of discussion, I am replacing the original stab with a new sheeted stab.
I am using 1/8" balsa sheeting top and bottom with an inner structure of 3/8" balsa sticks.
I am using the trailing edge from the original stab - it is hardwood and will add a lot of stiiffnes and strenght to the stab. I will also back up the leading edge with another piece of hardwood stick.
I think the elevators will also be restructured in the same fashion, using only balsa wood.
The first step is to edge glue some sheet stock together.
03-10-2013, 12:53 PM
#332
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: R/C Art
Ok, after some field testing and lots of discussion, I am replacing the original stab with a new sheeted stab.
I am using 1/8'' balsa sheeting top and bottom with an inner structure of 3/8'' balsa sticks.
Ok, after some field testing and lots of discussion, I am replacing the original stab with a new sheeted stab.
I am using 1/8'' balsa sheeting top and bottom with an inner structure of 3/8'' balsa sticks.
And regarding Sir Emerick and the turtle suit.... add a "pocket protector" and he'll be unable to resist.
03-10-2013, 04:19 PM
#335
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: Lucky Dog
Not to second guess the more learned and experienced, but I'm curious as to why the sheeting method won out over perhaps using a carbon fiber tube leading edge (and perhaps spar) on the stab? It seems like it would be lighter.
Not to second guess the more learned and experienced, but I'm curious as to why the sheeting method won out over perhaps using a carbon fiber tube leading edge (and perhaps spar) on the stab? It seems like it would be lighter.
03-10-2013, 06:55 PM
#336
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: abufletcher
I does seem like a bit of a ''quick-fix'' solution to the problem discovered during the first test flight. It was something that could be added immediately to have the model flying again the next week. Going the CF tube route would probably have meant re-designing the entire stab.
ORIGINAL: Lucky Dog
Not to second guess the more learned and experienced, but I'm curious as to why the sheeting method won out over perhaps using a carbon fiber tube leading edge (and perhaps spar) on the stab? It seems like it would be lighter.
Not to second guess the more learned and experienced, but I'm curious as to why the sheeting method won out over perhaps using a carbon fiber tube leading edge (and perhaps spar) on the stab? It seems like it would be lighter.
03-12-2013, 05:25 PM
#337
RE: Eindecker EIII
Turtle Report
I added the interior truss work to the stab and also the top sheet balsa. Then I weighted it down with all the heavy stuff I could put on [>:] ........I forgot to take a picture of the stab before the top sheet was added - so you'll just have to imagine a shot or two showing the balsa sticks arrranged in a multiple triangle type of arrangement.
I'll give it two days for the glue to dry - don't want any warping going on here [8D].
Signed,
The Turtle
I added the interior truss work to the stab and also the top sheet balsa. Then I weighted it down with all the heavy stuff I could put on [>:] ........I forgot to take a picture of the stab before the top sheet was added - so you'll just have to imagine a shot or two showing the balsa sticks arrranged in a multiple triangle type of arrangement.
I'll give it two days for the glue to dry - don't want any warping going on here [8D].
Signed,
The Turtle
03-12-2013, 05:58 PM
#339
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: metaldriver
Mr Turtle are you afraid the stab will fly away on it's own accord?
Mr Turtle are you afraid the stab will fly away on it's own accord?
03-14-2013, 12:34 PM
#340
RE: Eindecker EIII
Still waiting for the glue to dry on the stab...........
Meanwhile I am working on the tail skid. I choose half inch oak from which to cut the blank.
I think I will experiment with the router and see if I can get the edges rounded - might try a quarter inch round over.
If that doesn't work I will cut another blank and run it throught the planer to reduce the thickness.......
Meanwhile I am working on the tail skid. I choose half inch oak from which to cut the blank.
I think I will experiment with the router and see if I can get the edges rounded - might try a quarter inch round over.
If that doesn't work I will cut another blank and run it throught the planer to reduce the thickness.......
03-16-2013, 10:21 AM
#341
RE: Eindecker EIII
A decision to modify the wing and aileron tips has been made. The aileron tip will be cut off as well as the next bay (at least on mine). The tip will be glued to the wing trailing edge and the wing tip. This should make for a more pleasant look and provide more efficient lift at the tip.
This is but one man's modification........the designer is working on a new tip design which will be different than mine. Paul is also working on one of his own making.
Mine will have reduced aileron area and some might say will be much less effective.......it will be a little less effective, but I don't think the overall design will suffer much in the roll department. An Eindecker won't roll well anyway no matter how you ask it to........soooooooo -
This is but one man's modification........the designer is working on a new tip design which will be different than mine. Paul is also working on one of his own making.
Mine will have reduced aileron area and some might say will be much less effective.......it will be a little less effective, but I don't think the overall design will suffer much in the roll department. An Eindecker won't roll well anyway no matter how you ask it to........soooooooo -
03-16-2013, 06:50 PM
#342
RE: Eindecker EIII
Aileron tip is now cut off - no turning back now!
Chuck Cunningham's articles of design that were published in Radio Control Modeler back in 1976 or so called for an aileron area of 12% of the wing's total area for a sport plane. I haven't measured but it looks like this aileron is about 6 to 8 % of the total wing area.
I think with this plane a lot of rudder will be used for most of the maneuvering along with the ailerons..........I base this on how my old third scale E1 with wing warping flew and also on my observations of Paul's model. I think I'm gonna like it!
Chuck Cunningham's articles of design that were published in Radio Control Modeler back in 1976 or so called for an aileron area of 12% of the wing's total area for a sport plane. I haven't measured but it looks like this aileron is about 6 to 8 % of the total wing area.
I think with this plane a lot of rudder will be used for most of the maneuvering along with the ailerons..........I base this on how my old third scale E1 with wing warping flew and also on my observations of Paul's model. I think I'm gonna like it!
03-16-2013, 07:49 PM
#343
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RE: Eindecker EIII
Good evening, just discovered your build, I am an old Eindecker builder.
If I may, I have an observation; as you are building a plane with a big wing, it has a lot of the same stresses that the full size jobs did. In looking at your wing, the two spars are some distance apart, which even with the shear webs will allow the wing to twist; when you have 40+ pounds hanging from it.
It is correct that the full sized planes used a goodly number of flying wires but they also internally braced the wings with diagonal struts that went from the top of each rib to the bottom of its adjoining ribs. From front to back, their were four of these X pattern braces between each set of ribs; this added a lot of internal stiffness to the wing. If when flying your prototype, it still allows the wing to twist, you might think about adding sets of X braces between the front spars and the ply sub spars and again between the sub spars and the rear spars.
My complements of your building skills
John
If I may, I have an observation; as you are building a plane with a big wing, it has a lot of the same stresses that the full size jobs did. In looking at your wing, the two spars are some distance apart, which even with the shear webs will allow the wing to twist; when you have 40+ pounds hanging from it.
It is correct that the full sized planes used a goodly number of flying wires but they also internally braced the wings with diagonal struts that went from the top of each rib to the bottom of its adjoining ribs. From front to back, their were four of these X pattern braces between each set of ribs; this added a lot of internal stiffness to the wing. If when flying your prototype, it still allows the wing to twist, you might think about adding sets of X braces between the front spars and the ply sub spars and again between the sub spars and the rear spars.
My complements of your building skills
John
03-17-2013, 04:38 AM
#344
RE: Eindecker EIII
Hey John
Welcome to the thread. Thanks for the compliments. You are correct in your observations - design is a compromise and when one is working toward a sport flying type of model but using a scale outline and trying to work in as many scale features as possible - well, irregularities always pop up.
To control wing twist a D tube wing section and some trailing edge sheeting would have been the solution, but (and there's always a but) the decision was to preserve the flavor of the original Eindecker and sheeting would have spoiled the look so the deviations from scale begins.
Where does it stop? I guess where ever the designer or builder choses to stop.
It is definitely an entertaining excursion - the trip down the road of design. Designing for one's self and a "one of" model just about anything is acceptable. But when designing with the long range goal of kit production many factors need to be considered - time and money being the most important to production........and ease of building and flying being the most important to the consumer.
A good friend and I are in the beginning stages of a half scale Eindecker EIII project and much of what you mentioned will probably be incorporated into that design/build.
I have run on far too long........thanks for stopping in and I hope you stay with us.
Cheers,
Art
Welcome to the thread. Thanks for the compliments. You are correct in your observations - design is a compromise and when one is working toward a sport flying type of model but using a scale outline and trying to work in as many scale features as possible - well, irregularities always pop up.
To control wing twist a D tube wing section and some trailing edge sheeting would have been the solution, but (and there's always a but) the decision was to preserve the flavor of the original Eindecker and sheeting would have spoiled the look so the deviations from scale begins.
Where does it stop? I guess where ever the designer or builder choses to stop.
It is definitely an entertaining excursion - the trip down the road of design. Designing for one's self and a "one of" model just about anything is acceptable. But when designing with the long range goal of kit production many factors need to be considered - time and money being the most important to production........and ease of building and flying being the most important to the consumer.
A good friend and I are in the beginning stages of a half scale Eindecker EIII project and much of what you mentioned will probably be incorporated into that design/build.
I have run on far too long........thanks for stopping in and I hope you stay with us.
Cheers,
Art
03-17-2013, 05:12 AM
#345
RE: Eindecker EIII
ORIGINAL: bugle3
It is correct that the full sized planes used a goodly number of flying wires but they also internally braced the wings with diagonal struts that went from the top of each rib to the bottom of its adjoining ribs. From front to back, their were four of these X pattern braces between each set of ribs; this added a lot of internal stiffness to the wing.
It is correct that the full sized planes used a goodly number of flying wires but they also internally braced the wings with diagonal struts that went from the top of each rib to the bottom of its adjoining ribs. From front to back, their were four of these X pattern braces between each set of ribs; this added a lot of internal stiffness to the wing.
As you can see in this photo, there were however, diagonal cable bracings that spanned several rib bays.
03-17-2013, 06:17 AM
#346
RE: Eindecker EIII
One wing tip on and awaiting final sanding.
Second wing tip fitted, fill in pieces rough cut.......tip & bottom sheeting glued and secured. When this is dry I will add the other pieces and ribs and cap strips.
Then I will cut and fit the aileron to the new space.
Second wing tip fitted, fill in pieces rough cut.......tip & bottom sheeting glued and secured. When this is dry I will add the other pieces and ribs and cap strips.
Then I will cut and fit the aileron to the new space.
03-17-2013, 06:37 AM
#348
03-17-2013, 06:37 AM
#349
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RE: Eindecker EIII
Here are some of my "quick fix" up grades that Art and Larry discussed down at our last R&D fly-in last weekend.......
These 2 pics show the wind tip I made and bolted on......I think I still have a middle triangle brace to install[&:]
HPA
These 2 pics show the wind tip I made and bolted on......I think I still have a middle triangle brace to install[&:]
HPA
03-17-2013, 06:46 AM
#350
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RE: Eindecker EIII
These 2 pcs show ONE of the ways you can make the tail cage assy.
This is kinda Arts and Larrys ideas rolled into one.........
I like this construction because it is EASY, inexpensive, STRONG........and did I say EASY???
HPA
This is kinda Arts and Larrys ideas rolled into one.........
I like this construction because it is EASY, inexpensive, STRONG........and did I say EASY???
HPA