WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

roger on the pic, Rich.

Looks a lot like the other classic 'at speed' pic that was posted here, with a few discrepancies:

Youtube pic has the nose pennant in place, as well as the stern flag, but the stern isn't as visible in the classic shot;
The cockpit canopy looks different, and I'd guess its because in the youtube pic, the side panels weren't mounted, where in the classic pic they are, and rolled up.
The other thing that is missing is the foredeck nav/RDF loop antenna. There appears to be a straight whip in its place though, or ruther forward, hard to tell from the differing angles of the shots.
The radar array ~is~ there, but was caught side-on to the camera, still mounted on the after section of the mast.
You can also see the equipment locker that ~seems~ to be missing in the classic shot, but again, it could be the angle and open forward hatch hiding any view of it.

Any chance of contacting the poster to get a high-res image and data on that picture? Might be good for differentiating minor changes in the craft as she went through her lifetime on the Hudson.

dauntlessfan

Great find Rich! I'm guessing that pic is public domain somewhere out there that the video's author came across? I know I haven't seen it before and regularly scour search engines for Dauntless info. Attached a screen grab from the YouTube video, but that's the best I can do.

12skipper

Hi Rich,
You amaze me with the info that you dig up. Keep it up.

Chuck

Rich404

Hi Whitewolf,

This yacht was constantly changing. Her owner was a very progressive guy that did not settle with her. He was always finding the latest and greatest gadgets to implement and was constantly in contact with her designer to make things happen, so Dauntless was constantly being upgraded and modified.

Dauntless’s captain wrote to a person to perform work on Dauntless to be careful of some of her electronics on board because they were “aviation grade�. Two of her former owner’s also mentioned that Dauntless was fitted more like a WWII military airplane than a boat and that the electronics below deck were “really neat.�
Here are a few things that have me stumped.

•In the main S&S Dauntless picture with her at speed, she has the forecastle hatch opened. It is opened facing forward. I saw an entire set of pictures of her on the East River in NYC with that same hatch open, but it was opened the other way, facing aft. I personally thought it looked better facing aft so I will model it that way. Was the hatch changed to open the other way, or did it have a 2 way feature that allowed it to open in either direction?

•Here is something else that has me really confused and I still do not have the answer. The hatch over the main cabin starboard per Dumas.

All of the blueprints that I have seen do not have the main Cabin hatch drawn in. I CAREFULLY went over all the official blueprints and cannot find it anywhere. When I was looking at actual pictures, a square object was on the roof in that exact location per Dumas. It was a perfect square and about 1-2� tall and about 2’ by 2’ perfect square.

Here is where it gets more confusing; The hatch over the forecastle looks like a hatch, it is not totally square and you can tell it opened with hinges & such. On the main cabin, it was a perfect square and it looked like it was painted and sealed at the seam. It did not give me any indication that it could open and in the many pictures seen, it was never opened. I am wondering if the “hatch thing� was not a hatch but had another purpose. With the above mention of all the electronics & gadgets aboard, perhaps it could have been a cover plate for some electronics relating to the nearby direction finder. The pictures of the square on the roof go back as far as Dauntless sailing without the bridge shelter top in the 1940's therefore, it was not added later on. I sent a query to her former owner & he does not seem to know what I was referring to. I sent him another e-mail with pictures of 2� x 2� piece of plastic in place to resemble the Dumas hatch & I’m still awaiting an answer.

I will keep you posted on the results.

Hi Dauntlessfan,

Thanks for posting this picture!; I had a hard time trying to extract it.

Thanks Chuck,

Just as fun as it is building the boat, I personally find it just as interesting to research and learn new things about this yacht's history. With all of us knowing & understanding the yacht, it makes it even more of an interesting conversation piece when she is on display at home or being sailed in the local lake. [sm=shades_smile.gif]

Hi Captains,

This weekend I will continue on thee Ol' girl. The weather has really messed me up for painting & I still have to find a way to finish it. The grey paint on the cabins and bridge deck really change up the look of her.....Her colors are very cool. (as in cold)

-Rich.

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Rich:

You think any of the S&S guys, or the former owners would remember if it was an access panel, or a personel 'hatch'? And if so, how much less of a thickness it was compared to the foredeck hatch, which almost looks like a plexiglas skylight-type often seen these days (ask about that too?)

Me, hearing that the gear was top of the line and almost 'experimental (hey, they tested the film cams on the boat, RIGHT?) I'd say it was an access panel, and for the loop RDF antenna due to proximity.

In fact, I'm going to assume Dumas is FUBAR again, that out 'equipment' assumptions are right, its an access panel, and make it HALF thickness (1/16", maybe less) and panel-like, and make the fore-hatch much more hatch-like to differentiate them.

If other Dauntless builders don't like my 'assumption', heck, they can either prove their buiild is right, my assumption wrong, or stuff their opinions, so there!

Rich404

Hi Whitewolf,

I agree with you, this guy was a "gadgeteer" and the odds are is that it may have been an access panel for some cool electrical device.

I am trying to get the final owner to tell me if it was an access panel or a hatch. If he does not know of anything being there, it is easy to guess that it was an access panel covering an electrical device and not a hatch. Then in that case, it could have been removed as it became obsolete or stopped working. Then, just glue a 2x2" 1/8" wood square in place and paint. That should be all...no shaping required.

When Dauntless had the flybridge without the shelter top she had the wind deflector aka (Venturi) I noticed that that hatch/access panel thingy began under the wind deflector which also brought me to question how it would flip up without it hitting the deflector which was directly over part of it.

Also, I think Dumas's location is slightly off, I remember it starting closer to the flybridge, but I will obtain a clear picture and post accurate measurements after I figure out what it was.

For someone looking to make hatches & such functional, the answer should help them proceed on how it opened & such if it were a hatch..

I will push forth to try to get the answer. I also need to know if I am just gluing something there or cutting open the roof.

-Rich.

Rich404

Hi Captains,

I wanted to wait until the white paint was done, but who knows when it will happen. Another snow storn is supposed to hit today.

Yesterday I lightly sanded the grey paint on the decks to get it ready for another coat. I also want to fine tune the depth of the grey paint on the side cabins for the next coat.

Last night I started making the helm from solid mahogany & expect it to be done today. I am now looking to try to find a wooden ships wheel to replace the Dumas cast metal wheel.

Here are the most recent pictures of Dauntless, dressed in grey.

-Rich.

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Rich:

That grey decking with the white side-panels looks really spiffy. I gotta wonder though, wouldn't the decking have been a matt finish, as anti-skid as possible? Then again, 'deck-shoes' back then all had rubber soles or similar, so it dinna matter if the deck was a gloss polish, right? Mebbe a semi-gloss would be a halfway-point?

Just more random thoughts... gotta chase down an insurance quote tomorrow on a car that ain't yet bought, and a parking spot that i canna get until I have the papers! ARRGG!

Rich404

Thanks Whitewolf,

The full sized Dauntless was painted in 2 coates of flat followed by 2 coates of semigloss paint.

I am using satin finish.

-Rich.

Rich404

Hey Whitewolf,

Dauntless also had stain wood trim on the deck as well. It looked like it could be used by the deckhand's foot for leverage while docking the boat. It will be added once the next coat of paint is done on deck.

Yesterday I worked on the helm & polyeurathaned the solid mahogany woodwork. Tonight, I will make up the throttle levers and plexiglass for the helm. Until I find out more, there will be a black background under the plexiglass. This would likely have been Dauntlesses instrument panel. Once I find out more, I can easily go back and detail it. The throttles were chrome on the full sized but I will be using chrome spray paint with red & black accents. Once I finish up these pieces, all I need is a wooden shipswheel & the helm is ready for installation. I lucked out when I originally bought the kit because some of the fittings were broken. I called up dumas & they sent me a full replacement fittings set giving me more fittings to play with. Dumas gave us 2 thrttles for Dauntless whereas it really needed 4 so I am covered. I plan on cutting a 1/2" dowel in half to make part of the throttle unit.

All of the wiring for the forecastle, main cabin and navigation lighting will travel through the helm to various contact plates under the floor.

On another note, I am hoping to take Dauntless to my inlaws wood shop over the weekend to get it painted.

-Rich.

Rich404

Hi Captains,

Today, the wooden ship's wheel for the helm was ordered. This one is 7/8" and should be varnishable. This was one of the few ships wheels I found that was actually wood.

Then, (2) 2" life buoy rings, one for each side of the outer cabin wall was ordered along with a cloth (US) yacht ensign flag for the stern.

Tonight the helm will be wrapped up minus the ships wheel & off to the next adjenda item. The helm will be posted shortly.

-Rich.

Rich404

Hi Captains,

Here are some pictures of Dauntless’s helm. These are pictures of the varnished box but some of the other details are already made up and ready for installation. (not shown)

I salvaged 2 big cardboard boxes that close up tight for painting. With the use of these boxes, I was able to poly the helm & spray paint the throttle assembly unit without stinking up the room too badly. The pieces then cure on a tray inside the sealed box rather than cure out in the open where it will smell up the room. As long as you are quick to spray the items in the box and seal it shut, it will significantly reduce the potential odors. Every little bit helps, but stealth and a good sealable box are key if spraying or curing small parts indoors.

I will use those boxes for painting/staining small miscellaneous pieces going forward.

Last night I looked at the Dumas Throttles. They don’t really match the ones used on Dauntless but they will work fine. (Until something better comes along) I sanded them with 320grit followed by 1000grit sandpaper to bring out the shine and they now look better. Rather than painting them, I just used some poly to protect the shine. Unless something comes up, tonight it should be installed on the helm.

-Rich.

12skipper

Hello Rich,
She is looking better with every post. Keep up the good work.

Chuck

Rich404

Thanks Chuck!

Last night I continued on the helm. In my last post I mentioned that I was going to use the Dumas throttles until something better came along. After fitting them on the throttle unit, they looked like bicycle handlebars so I was reluctant to use them. After looking at them some more I came up with a plan. I decided to clip the bottom part throttle that stuck out and mighty putty the throttle arms to the side of the unit. It worked.

After using mighty putty on them, they had to be re painted so it was done as well.

For reference, here is the helm of another commuter yacht. Although not as high tech as Dauntless, they shared the chrome throttles and the large chrome unit behind the helm. I think it was for the compass, but am still unsure. I have seen plastic items that look like that chrome thing, so the next time I find one, I will pick one up and paint it chrome.

Next is a picture of Herc standing beside the helm. Note how tall the helm is compared to a 6’ tall man. There was a platform on the floor up front of the helm that was about 1’ tall that the captain would stand on. I have seen the platform that Dauntless had in scale. As a matter of fact, I have seen it at Loyalhanna. It is a wooden grate style platform. On Dauntless, it was stained mahogany. (The picture of Herc next to the helm is before I repainted it)


Here are some pictures I took this morning with the painted “chrome� controls on the helm. Tonight they will be epoxied in place.

After I was done with the helm I began working on the direction finder. (No photos yet.)

-Rich.

Rich404

Some miscellanious notes on the helm,

The throttles shown above are from the Dumas Dauntless kit. The dowel used was one of the 1/2" dowels from the small white box that the lifeboat comes in. I think it was supposed to be for the capstan, but who knows. It was cut down the middle to form the half round throttle unit. The throttles are the stock Dumas + 2 additional that were slightlly modified by me.

I still have a little more work to do to the helm before I declare it complete. There were a few metal plates on it with knobs that still have to be made followed by installation..... I cannot wait for the wooden steering wheel to come in....I hope it is big enough for me to use...

Does anyone know where I can find a WOODEN ships wheel with spokes about 2" round?

-Rich.

Rich404

Hi Captains,

Here is the humble beginnings of the direction finder. The loop is gold plated which is a shame because it is going to be painted red. The internal rod is 1/8� steel rod which is really strong and was a real pain to cut. The external sleeve is strong metal as well.

I used mighty putty to put the circular loop & the internal rod together. Then, it is shaping the mighty putty to look presentable. So far, it seems pretty strong and durable.

The external sleeve will be permanently mounted on Dauntless’s deckhouse on the starboard side & painted grey. The direction finder loop unit will be easily removable and is able to be positioned without being loose because I slightly crimped the bottom of the external sleeve just enough so that it is not too loose.. The mighty putty bracket will be painted grey & the circular loop will be painted red. I still have some minor shaping to do.

Here are some pictures.

Enjoy!

-Rich.

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Rich:

Can you mail me a high-res copy of that deck image? And your guestimates of the mast height and loop diameter pls? I'll probably makwe mine from brass rod/tube, as thats what I have handy.

Looking good... I'm slowly working on finishing the hull, and assembling the main cabin. I've decided to try to make the forward assembly two pieces... one the foredeck cabin, the other one the main cabin and cockpit, and as by design, the aft cabin and rear deck will be a third piece.

How did you 'locate' the door leading into the forward cabion, Rich? I don't remember seeing any measurements on the plans, even if there were ones for the aft cabin openings.

WhiteWolf
- still waiting anxiously for his vehicle registration... wanna be able to get the big-babies to the pond!

12skipper

Hi Rich,
The throttle and transmission levers are usually mounted close together so they can be manipulated with one hand. This is to facilitate manuvering in close quarters. The thumb and first finger on one lever and the little finger around the other. This makes it easier to jockey from forward to reverse while throttleing the engine. You may want to cut quadrant slots in your half round dowels and mount the levers in the slots. Just a thought!! Having been following this thread gives one the feeling that we are part of your project. I hope you dont mind the "kabitzing."

Chuck

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Rich:

I agree 100%, given the image you showed of a comparable yacht's controls. Dumas doesn't even show a complete console column, just a half-height support panel, and goofy controls.

And you're right on the chome dome. Thats where the compass would be, and the chrome container is apparently called a 'binnacle'. It had a see-thru window in it so the driver could see his heading easily, while the instrument was protected.
[link=http://www.yachtsupplydepot.com/images/uploads/14412.jpg]Here is a modern one[/link], I'm trying to find a comparable vintage one...

http://www.worthpoint.com/pmimages/i...1de5b57cee.jpg

And [link=http://1969chris-craftconstellation.blogspot.com/]here is a later Chris-Craft[/link] with what appears to be a similar console, and a binnacle-compass in a quite similar fitting.

PS: Here is a modern one VERY similar in looks: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=110468184890

Rich404

Hi Whitewolf,

I think you have a copy of that picture, but I don’t have a high resolution copy to share.

I tackled the direction finder all by guestimates. I looked & zoomed in on the pictures to come up with some kind of a reasonable measurement.

As soon as I get a chance, I will post the measurements for you. I have them written down but forgot to bring them with me. I will post them soon.

I also agree, Dumas did a lousy job at recreating the helm amongst many, many other things. It does not look anything like the one on Dauntless. Dumas dropped the ball so many times on this model that I don’t know what to call it… In many ways the boat is scale and in many ways it is not…. It is crazy trying to keep up, figure out and fix all the inconsistencies and missing details, but I guess that is the difference between the Dumas Dauntless & the S&S Dauntless.

Ah yes, binnacle, thank you for that clarification!

Hi Chuck,

You are absolutely right and thank you for pointing that out!! You are a huge part of this project and all “kabitzing� is welcome!
This also goes for all of the regulars that chime in here, all suggestions are welcome and with everyone’s help, suggestions and constructive criticism, this boat will really shape up and it will be worth it in the end.

Here is what I will do: Looking at “Ragtime’s� throttle above, I can cut up and shape a dowel to create the horizontal lever section for each the throttle/transmission levers. Then drill into the dowel to fix the horizontal section to each vertical lever and paint them chrome. I will leave a small space (1/8� or less) between the levers so that they aren’t connected. Hopefully, this will do the trick.

Thanks again for your insight!

Dauntless captains;

Last night I continued with the direction finder. I drilled into the deck and epoxied the vertical external shaft in place. The shaft is set in the deck just a touch more than 1/8� to make it stable and strong. It will be reinforced under the deck with another coat of epoxy, but it will be hidden by the planked ceiling. I will have a small epoxy base on deck to further support it. The direction finder itself is durable and just lifts out of the sleeve and can be stored inside the boat during travel. It will likely be stored inside the bridge deck seating compartment along with flags & such during transport to and from the lake.

Now that the general shape and strength of the direction finder is established, I can go back and shorten the mighty putty base to resemble the one in the picture.

I am hoping to have the boat ready for paint this Sunday..

Here are those pictures.

-Rich.

Rich404

Hi captains,

Sooo, did a search on direction finders and I found a site that had a whole bunch of vintage ones. Here is one that looks just like the loop found on Dauntless. It looks like they just created a base for the loop antennae and ran the wires to the box at the helm.

Here is what it looked like, a good ol' fashioned American RCA unit.

So now, I just need to print the picture to a color printer, reduce it a bunch of times to the size I want, print the face in color and cut it out. Then, create a wood box to the size of the unit, shape the box corners, color match the grey paint and glue on the face. Then I have the direction finder unit beside the helm. Done.

-Rich.

Rich404

Dauntless Captains,

Finally, there is an answer to the old question of whether or not there was a hatch over the starboard side of the main cabin.

The answer is actually surprising: [sm=49_49.gif]

To the right of the helm is the door and a hatch leading into the main cabin. I was under the impression that the hatch would simply flip up because it would not be able to open all the way if it slid forward because the bridge shelter would be in the way. Easy, right? [sm=49_49.gif]

To my surprise, the hatch DID slide forward, through the bridge shelter and into a box on deck over the main cabin where it would be out of the way and out of sight when open. [sm=eek.gif]

When viewing the yacht, If you did not know better, you would think that there was an opening hatch over the main cabin, but it was just a box structure that housed the hatch leading into the main cabin. Wicked, huh? Dumas was even fooled by that one!

It would have been so easy to just write it off as a simple flip hatch over the main cabin, but the S&S blueprints would have indicated a hatch there but never did. There was no way that S&S would forget to draw in such a detail. This along with the main cabin sketch sparked me to question the existence of that hatch. The archive center pics then blew me away when I saw that structure on the roof in Dauntless's early days before the shelter top was added. Again, I had to get to the bottom of it because the structure still did not convince me that it could easily be opened.

Special thanX to Dauntless's owner on this one because there was no way I would have been able to figure that one out.

So, last night I cut the slot into the shelter to make way for a sliding hatch.

-Rich.

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Rich:

Its surprising but logical... And part of why we missed it is that article showed a side-view of the hatchway stairs going down, but the top view showed a cut-away of the deck beneath, and dinna show the deck above the main cabin. It ~clearly~ would have made the positioning, and proper 'function' of that so-called 'hatch' quite clear. Ah well, and bets Dumas NEVER corrects their plans/instructions, as usual?

If you're going to use those brass C-rails with the 'captive' aluminum natch, why not use a thin sheet of brass over top and soldered to the rails to make the 'roof' of the former 'hatchcover', hmmm? I'll probably do mine the same way as yours (using C-rails to hold the hatch cative) and use a thin brass sheet for the top.

Now doing the detaile on the radar array is going to be challenging. If I thought I could do home-made photo-etch, I would. Beats a soldered assembly for that small an item anyday.

WhiteWolf

Rich404

Hi Whitewolf,

Yeah, if there was no cut out, we would have known about the sliding hatch extension. I think it is fine that Dumas left out so many details because the goosechase for all these missing details has been some adventure.

The Dumas Dauntless and the original vessel have many small differences & there is no need for Dumas to know about my discoveries. The way that the yacht is being customized in these pages gives everyone the "option" to add this or that to their yacht and the builder can use their own skill to tackle the detail.. If Dumas included everything that I am doing to the kit, very few would ever finish it, so it is good that certain things were left out to save building time. These pages are good to give the builders different options or ideas without doing it all, unless there was a strong desire to do it. So with all that mentioned, Dumas doesn't have to do anything and they are still making money in kit sales.

The aluminum hatches seen in the pictures will not be used. Those were old doors that I made up a while ago but did not use. They were 1 1/2" wide so I used them as spacers while I tried to get the rails to go through the shelter.

Good luck on that radar, & post it when possible. I have been eyeing it but am not quite there yet. Recently, I did make up the pieces to the air intake funnel that the main radar mast goes through. It is part of the mast foundation on deck seen in the side profile drawing. I can't wait to dedicate some more time to put it together and build it up.

-Rich.

Rich404

Hi Captains,

It's always nice to see a Dauntless on the water. Here is one from youtube.

[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeppfdewYsU&feature=related[/link]

Enjoy!

-Rich.