Greg....are you sure about that?

.....can't quite get behind this penetrating thought of this being a whole lot of wrong.

there are exceptions to every rule Tony. I cant help it if those idiots at OCC went and F%^&$# everything all up.

 I don't need a fighter and I'm not worried about putting it together myself. Just need to find time to do it.
 The bigger the better. 
 

lol! Ain't that the truth Greg, !

Despotes, you want bigger, get the KT...you want the biggest, get the Leopard. But, I'd say get the Leo second if you ever get more than one tank.....the Leo will mess up your entire expectations of most tanks in the market. I'm not talking it up either. No mainstream market tank is as fast as this tank and aren't supposed to be. Most tanks are set for low gear ratio or close to, so it'll be a realistic drive. The leo of course is a modern tank which has some serious speed behind it(for a tank.) Anyway, I'm with Greg, just choose you're weapon and have fun with it. What ever you choose, you can't go wrong......unless you bought an HL expecting a Tamiya, or bought a Tamiya expecting metal tracks and cheap replacement parts and a radio....which I know you don't.

If it were me, and I knew I could only choose one. It would have to be the Leo (and I really, really, really don't care for modern armor.) Runner up is the Pershing.
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 How long is the Leo not including the barrel?<br type="_moz"/>

19 exact inches from tip of the front fender to the edge of the rear engine deck. Not exactly sure about the KT, but I know it's taller....but not the longest according to the measurements of both the KT and Leo on the box stats.

Well look on E-bay for a 1:9 th scale Century 21 Abrams. there out there just got too look. It's just as I thought you just want the biggest tank you can find. That does not necessarily mean you will get what you are after. You could wind up very disappointed and a lot less solvent with your finances.

No. Idon't just want the biggest tank Ican find that's why I said it's between the Tamiya King Tiger and the Leopard.

no offense but I dont get you guys with the whole tamiya electronics Drove a tiger and wasnt impressed what so ever. Granted I could give a rats ass about the sounds. I was expecting this amazing machine bcause all you tamiya fools hype em up so much, there isnt much to hype up imo. Frankly, I doubt I will ver buy a tamiya, if I gotta build it to begin with I might as well customize it.

I think there is too much of this brand name tamiya bs going on on this forum. a tank si a tank. Everytime someone asks about which hl tank they should buym, you get a bunch fo guys who must have deep poclets saying get a tamiya. I have 3 hl tanks with no freaken mods. Had a few issues, but now lets see..1200 dollars worth of issues?

The fact is you pay for the name. The engineering is better, but 900 for a kit? come on....These gears dont cost jack and shiot to make... It;'s much cheaper to sell a kit in pieces than to pay someone to assemble it and others to paint it. Tamiya has always been pretty spendy though.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However, please do not call me a 'Tamiya fool'. The usual term is 'Tamiya snob', although I have been called once a 'Tamiya idiot'. Cried myself to sleep that night. You have your opinion, others have theirs. However, instead of denigrating what we are urging him to get, how about some constructive comments on what you have?

I personally have Tamiya, Heng Long, and Wasan. All my tanks are fighters, built to romp and stomp in any field condition and virtually any weather. Have I busted things? Yup. Rummage around through old threads about what happens when you jam tracks in our local acc gumbo that they call mud, and you'll see a very heavy duty competition transmission with a hardened steel gear stripped to the nubs.

That being said, my 16 years of experience in the tank hobby has proven to me who is and who isn't the best on the market place. Any time you want to wander on over for a little combat (tongue in cheek..it's a long wander for you), just let me know. However, the Tamiya Battle System protocol is the standard of the industry and hobby, so get yourself some battle system that is compatible. Here is what you may come up against. And by the by this old boy (the King) is my oldest, 16 years, soon to be 17....and still running strong. Back then there were no electroniks as we know today, but he was retrofitted with all the Tam goodies on '02.

City Hunter.....
Please don't take this the wrong way, and I say this with the deepest respect. You couldn't recognize genuine quality if you were asked to pick out a 10 karat diamond from a heap of cornflakes.

It has nothing to do with brand name, just quality and experience. It's simple math and it all depends on your needs and wants. You like building models? You like building in general? You want a machine that'll last and has impressive detail out the box? Can you recognize the detail? There's plenty of reasons, but you can't deny the fact that most will upgrade their tank to improve the functionality and sound of an HL.......why is that? Simply not just because.........Well, take an HL, factor the average cost for those running these after market upgrades and guess what?

You have the cost of a Tamiya!!

Why should people not recommend a Tamiya or at least point out the possible scenario toinquirers? Why the hell would anyone say, forget buying a Tamiya...an HL is the same thing. That's a load of bull.

I must also mention that I don't really appreciate the implication that I'm associated to a brand fan boy and that I would simply recommend something to someone due to brand loyalty.....cause that's complete hogwash as I own an equal amount of HL tanks to Tamiya. I still recommend HL's as well. So when I say there's a difference, it's not because of an opinion I basedsolelyoff of an experience from when I drove it one time.

At any event, $900 bucks for a Leopard....worth it. $450-$550 for the other four-worth it. $680-$750 for the other five....not so sure.<br type="_moz" />

I have several Tamiya tanks and several HL and WSN tanks
the Tamiya ones are more expensive than the HL one is because they have put a lot of time and effort into reasearching the tanks they make and HL are as far as I can work out are copys of the tamiya article
My hl tiger has cost me several hundred Pounds to get it to a decent running standard where the tracks don't come off, the idlers don't break their shafts and all of  the running gear is aligned properly. you do not have to do this with a Tamiya kit
the only copmplaint I have about tamiya tanks is that they do not put proper bearings in them for the susspension and road wheels
also the return rollers on the Leopard model are crap and for the money invested in the kit they could have been a lot betterwith proper bearings in them.

I'm always surprised with the remarks that surface whenever a thread even tangentially touches the Tamiya vs HL ( and the like)
subject. I've been in the rc armor hobby a pretty long time. My oldest Tamiya model, the original $99 Sherman is what, 35 years
old ? And it still is running like a champ. I also have a number of HL/Matorro models. They are ok enjoyable models but the quality and extensive engineering found in a Tamiya just isn't there, there no other way to say it. As I have both types of models I feel that is a accurate statement.

As Sevo well said, everyone is entitled to their opinion just don't refer to people who recognize Tamiya's value as fools. That appellation only serves to paint a unflattering image of the writer; simply revel in your models in silence is the better course.

The Leo II is an advanced model for the 1/16 range. It has many features and a unique transmission not found in other Tamiya
kits. Among 1/16 models it may be expensive but isn't the most expensive tank model by a very wide margin.

If you base your purchase decision on the Tamiya line you can't choose badly with any of them, I find the Pershing annoying to
fit everything into but that's just me. The King Tiger as well as the Leo II are huge so few space issues there. The one thing you can be certain of with all the Tamiya line is consistent quality. With Heng Long and the others like it you are at the whim of variables such as whether or not it was National Glue Day in China when your example was assembled. Based on the tools you mentioned the original poster doesn't appear to be ready to tear a Heng Long apart to customize it.

Whatever you buy just go out and enjoy it.

Jerry

Hunter, here's a simple test. Look inside and photo the interior of your Heng Longs. (and don't get me wrong, I have several HL's too, albeit all with Tamiya electronics). The attached photos will show what you get with Tamiya. Now post yours and lets see the difference. Mine are of course painted in side, but just with the suspension of the JT, which is the same in the King Tiger, Tiger 1, and Panther. look at it. Then be reminded that the hulls for these particular tanks are aluminium, the torsion bars are steel, the orifice for the suspension arm is cast metal, the idler rides on metal and is metal, and of course the drive sprocket is metal.

The suspensions you see are not stock, simply because as stated my tanks are very strong fighters and built to be so. Same with the transmissions. Stock will do well and hold up for years, but for all out 'I'm gonna clean yer clock' fighting, I use my own transmissions and after market suspensions, although the suspensions are a combination of stock and after market, for scale off road speed, handling, and power.

As for stating 'a tank is a tank', that's like saying 'a car is a car'. Using the same analogy, I don't know what you drive, but I'll be more than willing to swap you even up one of the local Lada's for whatever you drive. After all, it's the same, isn't it?

Anyhow, lets have a comfortable and polite discussion on this if you so desire. No name calling etc. It makes me loose sleep.

The King Tiger measures 64cm total length and 23cm width

One thing I've noticed about people who comments in these HL vs Tamiya debates is this:

People who own Tamiya Tanks: Love them!!!!
People who owns both Tamiya and HL tanks: Loves both of them, but sees and understands why Tamiya is better than HL.

People who owns only Heng Longs: Oddly fanatical about their Heng Longs, and love to bash Tamiya about how they are so expensive, and how Heng Long is equal to a Tamiya.

On a positively unrelated note, I also don't see why the 2010 Dodge Viper is so much more expensive than my 2000 Toyota Corolla. They both have four wheels and go vroom vroom when I push the gas pedal! I drove a friend's Viper once. Wasn't impressed with it. It drives the same in a 35mph zone the same way my Corolla does. Those Dodge Viper fools think their car is all that!

the king tiger need only one upgrade, better idlers and maybe metaltracks, the other upgrades are <span style="color: #800000"><u>wanted and not needed</u><span style="color: #000000"> its at your minds will. These tamiya tanks are great runners as they are i own four tam Kt's two of them are in originaly state and 12y old, no isseus, no metaltracks its amezing to get them come with the tamiya digital sounds realy beasty

No matter the other guy's said you don't to do any steel upgrades, the gearbox of the FOKT in more then adequade to his task, there are guy's who spend easily to 500&euro; on upgrades thats not needed, most tamiyaparts are very good of quality and you have lifetime garanty on DMD and MFmodules when PROPER connected</span></span>

Well said you guys!

There's really no debate about it, honestly. His opinion or anyone who thinks buying a Tamiya is a foolish purchase has a right to their opinion. But one should not down people who choose or recommend a Tamiya. Sometimes I wonder if the negative opinions are based off ofjealousy, envy, the lack of funds, or choices to purchase these machines. It seems to always boil down to the cost of a tank.....but you don't see one person downing someone who spent or recommend $500-$1000 to have a fully upgraded HL tank with an asiatam set up and elmod and upgrades to correct flaws......not one person.

I suppose it's due to the simple fact that an HL owner can choose how far he/she wants to take it.....and Tamiya forces quality down thepurchasersthroat, as if Tamiya knows what's good for me!

Naturally, I would have never commented to City hunters opinion as he has a right to it, but because his statement is very broad and basically includes me and all those who recognize the quality of a Tamiya....well, it's offensive. Especially since I've made recommendations in this thread. Regardless.....there was really no warrant to bash Tamiya in this thread or feel the need to bash those who do buy and recommend them. I stand corrected if there were someone in here that said Heng Longs were a foolish purchase and Tamiya was the only way.

Any way, you fools who actually buy Coca cola for $1.75 are ridiculous and pure fanboys at it's best. My can of Sams club cola for 25 centsquenchesjust as well and taste just as good!..............NOT,lol

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I agree, Jerry does have a way with words. Shows his education, far superior to mine for sure.

However, we should not beat up on Hunter too much. Granted, he caught me in an exhausted mode, and as a result I was probably a little insulting in a subtle way, for which I apologize, but that being said, we should be patient with Hunter...sooner or later he will come to the Dark Side.... If he doesn't, well we'll still help him as much as possible when he needs assistance with his tanks. After all, this is a hobby, and should be fun and enjoyable for all.

Agreed Bob. I don't have any hard feelings. At the end of the day, nothing anyone could possibly say to make me regret or refute what I have ultimately is.....that is, unless someone says..."Hey, I just found a place that sells the Leopard for $700 bucks shipped and Oh, look...they also just marked down the Panther G and Jagd to $570!".....that, my friend would make me reek of resentment and regret! lol

This guy just really doesn't get it. Some of the people who have made advances for "Your" belovedHL tanks are those very Tamiya Fools you like too call them. There is a difference and a big one. So you dont care about how it sounds, thats fine. You are missing out on a huge percentage of what battle was. There sure as heck was a lot of noise. And, Sir, I do take offense to your comment. I have both brands, I will continue to buy both brands. they each have their place. You are one of the ones pissed off at your self because you must have put YOURSELF in the position to not be able to afford a Tamiya. If you want to get down right nasty about it. which You Sir did.. If this guy came in here and asked which HL tank to buy we would have happily told him our opinions. Yes, there are those that want to jump wright on the Tamiya bandwagon, but they usually are HL converters who just cant get over their new found joy. We do not immediately imply that they should forego all brands other than Tamiya . It just doesn't happen that way city slicker.

yes is my opinion too Panther G and tony

Well Bob i dont see it that way. Being he is fromOregonhe ismost likelyWaaaYY LEEFTTTTT of the way most of us think. What he stands for is anything against the Large Established Topdog. He thinks we should all be down in the gutters muddling around with our inferior tanks as he has forced upon himself. They dont want to see any body have some thing better than what they have. that is it plain and simple. And yes I will go down to that level, Here in NJ. it is a way of life. You fight your battles in the trenches, then you crawl out and find your way home.

he ever knows when got his hands onto a tamiya some day

I drove last year a jaguar X type Estate, was a wonderful expierence when i was going after the 3hour ride into my Peugeot 307 SW it was like riding with Heng Longs, not bad but far from the quality of a top brand like jaguar ... that's the case between tamiya ad HL ... just a real fact ... no hard feelings ... one advice expierence it ... then talk about it ...

Ahhhh, Gregg...I"ve mellowed in my old age. Was a time I was ready to take umbrage and fight over most anything. One thing I learned though, over the years. Kindness, forgiveness, patience, generosity, a helping hand...they come from strength, not weakness. Having or not having money has nothing to do with it.

That being said, it would not be a good idea to take advantage of what some would perceive as weakness shown in the above mentioned traits...far from it. However, in this situation I think rather a softer approach is warranted.

Now, time for this old guy to have a cool one, and visit down stairs. Reason VCO and I are exhausted is we are now 'grandparents' as of this morning. One of our dogs, the Champion Plyushya, had her puppies this morning, two strapping lads and one tiny delicate girl. All are doing OK now, vet just left the house after pronouncing all is fine. However, she kept us up all night, hence the cool one...or five.