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How Do I Get Started?

Old 02-08-2017, 04:42 AM
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skip2a
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Default How Do I Get Started?

Hello all:

I have been looking for about three weeks trying to find local people that are active in the hobby to give me an idea of where to start. I found one person from this list that is 3.5 hours away (I am in State College PA). I was told that a very active person in the hobby lives in State College but my attempts to contact him have gone unanswered. I do not want to jump in and buy the wrong equipment and end up disappointed. I have been reading the modification posts on the forum and really would enjoy doing the work; I am just not sure how to learn what is going on? I really am interested in the 1/6 scale models but there doesn't seem to be any activity with them in the US that I can find.

I paint and modify 15mm and 28mm WWII table top models and really enjoy the work. I am looking forward to putting the same effort into a larger scale project that I can do something with instead of it sitting on a shelf or in a case for months at a time.

Any advice, contacts or feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Skip
Old 02-08-2017, 04:53 AM
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Start by letting us know your budget and what you believe you want to do with your tank( airsoft/IR, occasional backyard runner, daily runner, IR battle once a year, IR battle weekends at Danville, etc.) Also remember in your budget that you may need a hobby grade radio, batteries, charger and some tools unless you already have them.
Old 02-08-2017, 05:16 AM
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skip2a
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I'm not sure of the budget; I really do not have a good grasp on what tanks, radios, spare parts and modifications cost.

I have noticed there are IR battles and also Airsoft options. Can one vehicle run both types of systems with a turret change? I believe the Airsoft would be great for my son and I to use at home and the IR for formal settings such as Danville.

This is something that I can see my son and I doing on weekends at home as well as travelling on occasion so I would not know how to classify home much use they would see (I will need two tanks; neither of us will be happy watching the other run theirs).

I have looked on the for sale section of this site and also on ebay; unfortunately I really do not yet understand what I am looking for when purchasing one.

I was set to order a 1/6 one from England a few years ago and learn as I went with it. Unfortunately my wife at the time had no interest in me spending copious amounts of cash on a hobby. She is gone and I have lots of time to research/build/modify and run. I am hoping it is a way to get my son away from computer games and outside. It should also help to teach him how to do repairs/mods and paint/detail/weather.

Thanks,

Skip
Old 02-08-2017, 05:33 AM
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Hello Skip


My approach to your situation would be:

1. Purchase a basic airsoft version tank ready-to-run (battery, radio, fully assembled out of the box) from say Heng Long

Run it play with it bash it, see if it satisfies the play side of tanking you want

Price from 150 to 300 dollars depending on seller and tank type (HL Pershing usually cheapest)


2. Purchase a Tamiya full option tank with battle system (sold separately) for the building/modeling experience in addition to running in IR battles

This is considered the standard in the RC tank industry as well as a very well made model kit with electronics and metal parts Tamiya is already known for.

Price 450-1200 dollars depending on seller and type of tank chosen, a radio system and battery would also be needed as well. (M4 Sherman usually cheapest)

There are several choices within this range but for the new tanker, these would give a good idea of the range the hobby provides and have the least aftermarket upgrade requirements IMHO
Old 02-08-2017, 06:45 AM
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Budget is important here like everyone has mentioned.

A Heng Long (for example) brand is an inexpensive RTR that looks like a tank and will be the bottom dollar around 150 to 200 and is more toy like in operation and control. It offers a radio and battery in the box.

Taigen is a much more refined RTR, runs about twice what the HL does and will operate and sound more closer to a hobby grade vehicle and does come with the radio.

IF you want to build your own, a Tamiya can set you back starting at about 600... then you need to add the radio, batteries, charger and such. Many hours involved but many different choices to make along the way of assembling it PLUS painting too.

If I knew nothing about these, I would start at the bottom and then decide how expensive you want to go.





Jeff
Old 02-08-2017, 07:25 AM
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I agree with Heavyaslead, Buy a HL Tank FIRST! They come RTR now and 3 are on this site are For Sale from dgsselkirk, look under Tank Classified, these are 135.00 + ship. great way to start and see if your son moves forward with it, you as well LOL. You can add metal wheels and tracks if you like and paint and mod. as you go along, keep watching this website and learn and research FIRST! THEN if you are still into it you can move up to Tamiya or Taigen. I went backwards myself always wanting the best because my pocketbook can afford it but now I have 2 HL left and found there all I need for want I do. One is Aifsoft (King) and the other is the Challenger with barrel recoil mod. That is the BIGGEST tank HL makes. Check on E-bay or PM me and I'll give you a guy in Calif. that sells HL at a good price once you decide which tanks you like, My advice is to look at the classified on this site first and see the pics from dgsselkirk before spending a lot of money learning.
Old 02-08-2017, 07:41 AM
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Take a look at this. It may help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU5J2vVFks
Old 02-08-2017, 07:58 AM
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skip2a
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Thank you for the replies!

Crius: I can't see what you posted; it is just a black box? Is it a video or link?

I looked at the HL's on the for sale section. I love the KT and it can be painted up very nice. Will the plastic parts warning be an issue? Is it less durable? we will be mostly running these outside. I wish he had a Sherman or TD available also; I would order the pair and start us both off that way. Shipping seems high on these: I guess it is because of the size and weight? I really have not found a good picture that shows the actual size of the 1/16 models. I didn't see is the KT an Airsoft model?

Can I switch from an Airsoft to an IR tank? It is not worth the trouble?

Sorry about all of the questions; watching videos and reading about them isn't the same as interacting with people that actually have them and are familiar with them.

Thanks,

Skip
Old 02-08-2017, 08:03 AM
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It's a video and should have showed up. Anyone else having troubnle with that?

Here's a link to it, that may work better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFU5J2vVFks&t=6s
Old 02-08-2017, 08:08 AM
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I see the vid Gary. Skip, if you go with airsoft as your first tanks you'll then have to buy aftermarket control boards, hobby grade radio's and battle systems(IR emitter and receiver) to get into the IR side. Although some manufacturers sell IR tanks they do not have the same IR code as the tamiya standard that most clubs and Danville battle with hence the aftermarket boards which use the tamiya IR code. So if you bought a Taigen IR tank you could battle other tanks with the Tiagen stock system but not tanks using the tamiya IR code which like I said is the standard amongst most gatherings. It would be possible to then switch your airsoft and IR turrets but you'll have to mess with the control board as well. Most boards will have a dip switch or programmed via a tv remote to tell the board if it needs to be in airsoft or IR mode since the two need different outputs for different functions mainly dealing with the gun firing and recoil.

Last edited by TheBennyB; 02-08-2017 at 08:13 AM.
Old 02-08-2017, 08:11 AM
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phordman
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My Sherman with parts that are no longer available to make IR can do both. once I upgrade to IBU im not sure it will still do both.
Old 02-08-2017, 08:24 AM
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Also skip, wanted to mention that tamiya electronics do NOT support airsoft but you'll be IR compatible to battle out of the box with the additional battle system. The safe bet is to go entry level airsoft so you can have your 2 tanks without getting in too deep with the wallet. If you and your son think IR battling is something you want to explore you can then upgrade and mod together down the road. I've never been a fan of airsoft and only do IR so in my opinion and budget isn't an issue, grab a Tamiya sherman and a Tamiya Tiger 1. 2 Radios, 2 battle systems some batts and a charger and have at it!!
Old 02-08-2017, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by skip2a View Post
Thank you for the replies!

Crius: I can't see what you posted; it is just a black box? Is it a video or link?

I looked at the HL's on the for sale section. I love the KT and it can be painted up very nice. Will the plastic parts warning be an issue? Is it less durable? we will be mostly running these outside. I wish he had a Sherman or TD available also; I would order the pair and start us both off that way. Shipping seems high on these: I guess it is because of the size and weight? I really have not found a good picture that shows the actual size of the 1/16 models. I didn't see is the KT an Airsoft model?

Can I switch from an Airsoft to an IR tank? It is not worth the trouble?

Sorry about all of the questions; watching videos and reading about them isn't the same as interacting with people that actually have them and are familiar with them.

Thanks,

Skip

Hey Skip, the video i posted is about two years old but I still stand by it. The main point of the video is to get your feet wet as cheap as you can and it will tell you more than you can imagine. IR tanks are great, and I have several (two Tammy compatible) but for you and your son I still think you should just try out a couple of proven cheap tanks and see where it leads you. If you later go big money and lots of metal and battle systems you'll still have the original two to detail and play with. I still have my Tauchpanzer and drove it yesterday.

So ... take a look at these ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16-2-4G-RC...-/201695444929

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16-2-4G-US...-/201695466728

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16-2-4G-T3...-/201695482331

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-16-2-4G-RC...-/182349029827

Those are all great entry level, but be advised, the Sherman has gone WAY up and I only paid $60 for mine. But it does have the very latest HL electronics, as does the Tiger (99% sure on the tiger). The other two, the T34 and the M26, should have the next to latest electronics so you get proportional rotation but the main gun still cycles through (don't worry, I know that doesn't make sense now but it will).

I have personally used this ebay seller and you'll get free shipping to PA and I haven't had any trouble with them at all. I've purchased two tanks from them.

Also, I recently got a super score on an M1 Abrams that I got for $39.99 with free shipping and I've been waiting for someone like you to pass that deal along to. If you're interested in an Abrams you can PM me and we'll see what we can see. The tank does have a small issue but I believe i could fix that before shipping. Anyway, that's for later.

For right now, many other members here have also used toolsempire and they have good prices so if I were in your position i would get a couple of cheap tanks, maybe a T34 and a Tiger? for me and the sprout to mess about with. You can both be blazin' away with the BBs for right about $200 delivered so I hope all this stuff helps.
Old 02-08-2017, 10:39 AM
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I checked and the Tiger in the link I posted does come with the very latest HL electronics. I would recommend the Sherman and the Tiger to start, as they will both have exactly the same controls. Of course, you'll want to mark one controller so they don't get mixed up!
Old 02-08-2017, 10:49 AM
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Plastic is fine to start, you can always upgrade to metal, yes plastic won't last long, if your running outside you'll be replacing the sprocket and Idler wheels right away along with metal tracks, $$$. shipping is 20-40 depending where you live because the box is big and heavy, your playing with the big boys now! All HL tanks are Air Soft only now. Air Soft to IR, that's going to cost, you have to mod them, would wait till you get to know these tanks first. The tanks are about a foot long and weigh 8-10 lbs depending on what to do to them I. E. metal parts. The British challenger I love because it's the BIGGEST HL.
Old 02-08-2017, 11:10 AM
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sgtparker01
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Gary,
thats a great deal on a M1. I thought I got a great deal when I got mine for 139.00. Guess I need to keep my eyes open more often. Im waiting for my T-34 from RC tanks of OKC. Then its time for a Sherman.
Old 02-08-2017, 12:13 PM
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skip2a
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Once again thank you for all of the information and the links.

Reading the auction links they state that those tanks have a 30 minute run time and a 4 hour charge time: is this correct and the normal for these? If so how hard is it to purchase spare batteries in order to continue operating the vehicles?

How hard are the metal road wheels and sprockets/tracks to install on the HL models? Are they easily purchased? I have been looking at vendors all day and it is very confusing to know what is good quality and what is junk.

Are the 6mm Airsoft pellets easy to get? Are they the standard ones that the guns use or are they a different size?

It is looking like two HL's to start; I need to find something I like (I really want to eventually finish a jagdtiger; I like the assault guns and how they adapted to fill a role as a tank instead of just infantry support).

Sorry about all of the questions; I am trying to make an informed decision and your input is very helpful!

Skip
Old 02-08-2017, 12:58 PM
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Batteries are a different story. The new tanks come with Li-Ion batteries and need a lipo style charger, or the wall charger that comes with the tank. Most guys quickly upgrade to a decent charger and better batteries. I use both Nimh and lipo but a lot of guys are a bit shy about lipos. For what you're doing, you'll want a decent charger, which can be had at Hobby king for about $20, and probably two spare batteries. On a decent charger a 2000 mah nimh will come to full charge in about 30 to 45 minutes, and you'll get about a half hour run time with an all plastic tank. Your local hobby shop should have batteries, or you can get them online. At my LHS they have the Onyx 3000 mah nimh for about $22 each, but they can be had cheaper online. For now don't look for anything over 3000 mah as the price increases drastically above that. You can get a 3000 nimh for about $22, but a 5000 mah nimh will cost more than $50. Doesn't make sense to me either, but that's the way it is. At first you'll be able to charge the batteries fully and play for about 30 minutes, but once you add a good charger and a couple extra batteries you'll be able to play for much longer.

Metal parts are easily obtainable from a wide variety of sources, like Imex/Taigen in Florida or Matomart in Canada. Of course, shipping from US vendors will be cheaper. Installation is not difficult and there are lots of threads and videos to guide you.

6mm airsoft BBs can be had at Walmart, but you want to keep an eye on quality. The BBs that come with the tanks are junk and I have thousands of them that I'll never use. When shopping for BBs the most important word to look for is "seamless". I usually get mine online, and I always look for seamless double polished in a .12 or .15 gram weight. The .2 are good also, but once you start getting up to .25 they get a bit heavy for tank cannons. They're the same airsoft BBs they use in the rifle and pistols you can buy.

As far as I know the cheapest Jagdtiger you'll find (and you'll have to wait for another sale) is $399 US. I don't think that comes in an all plastic version, and as far as I know Torro is the only company making an RC RTR Jagdtiger.
Old 02-08-2017, 01:11 PM
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For what you need, a battery like this would be fine

https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...ries-nimh.html
Old 02-08-2017, 01:36 PM
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Amazon also sells 1/16 tanks, parts and batteries. You will pay a bit more, but you can look at a lot of models just to see what is out there. Also look at the Imex-Taigen on line catalog (www.taigentanks.com) and Tamiya's web site. 1/16 scale is a nice manageable size that can weigh up to 15+ pounds with tons of detail parts available. I have tried a few of the smaller scale tanks and to my mind they just look like toys. There is not much available in 1/6 and what is available is very expensive . You will not find much help solving problems with 1/6 tanks while I don't think there is a question or problem with a 1/16 tank that can't be answered or solved by the members of this site. You are forewarned that if you try this that no one stops at just one or two tanks (I have 11) and each new one tends to cost more then the last one. Best of luck. jot
Old 02-09-2017, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by skip2a View Post
Once again thank you for all of the information and the links.

Reading the auction links they state that those tanks have a 30 minute run time and a 4 hour charge time: is this correct and the normal for these? If so how hard is it to purchase spare batteries in order to continue operating the vehicles?

How hard are the metal road wheels and sprockets/tracks to install on the HL models? Are they easily purchased? I have been looking at vendors all day and it is very confusing to know what is good quality and what is junk.

Are the 6mm Airsoft pellets easy to get? Are they the standard ones that the guns use or are they a different size?

It is looking like two HL's to start; I need to find something I like (I really want to eventually finish a jagdtiger; I like the assault guns and how they adapted to fill a role as a tank instead of just infantry support).

Sorry about all of the questions; I am trying to make an informed decision and your input is very helpful!

Skip

One thing to keep in mind about aftermarket parts, just because it's 1/16 it MAY NOT FIT unless specifically meant for your brand of RC. Now that doesn't mean it's impossible but just may not be a direct replacement and will need some modifications. Things like metal tracks... not all brands will fit and may need further parts and or modifications.




Jeff

Last edited by Panther F; 02-09-2017 at 04:22 AM.
Old 02-09-2017, 08:15 AM
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That's a very good point. And not all brands are interchangeable. I've heard of several guys that tired to mix brands of tracks and sprockets and had trouble. If possible I always try to get the same brand tracks and sprockets, since a mato sprocket might not mate properly with a Taigen track, or vice versa.
Old 02-09-2017, 11:25 AM
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Hi Skip,

I got into this hobby a year or so ago. All my experience is with Heng Long tanks.

I started out with a Heng Long Panzer III that had very old electronics in it, and no smoke and no sound, for about $80. I just went looking on Amazon and ebay and could not find those anymore.

There are three kinds of radios out there, and if you are going to run multiple tanks simultaneously you will need to know about this.

With the earliest radio (what was in my PIII above), there is no replaceable crystal. You have 3 channels to choose from, A, B, and C. So you can run up to 3 tanks simultaneously if you put them on separate channels.

The next generation has a replaceable crystal on the tank and in the transmitter. You can swap these out to make sure tanks are on different freqs for co-play.

The latest generation are the 2.4 Ghz systems. They slave to their tank and there are no interference issues to worry about.

Another nice thing about the 2.4 Ghz systems is that you can control the sound volume and the smoke on/off from the transmitter, not on the tank manually. That is nice. I think the 2.4 systems also give you better speed control and better turning than previous generations.

So I recommend going with a 2.4 Ghz system. Most of the newer tanks seem to be.

The cheapest all-plastic tanks run about $120 - $200 or so.

https://www.amazon.com/German-Panthe...heng+long+tank

https://www.amazon.com/German-Tiger-...heng+long+tank

https://www.amazon.com/Remote-Contro...heng+long+tank

The all-plastic tanks generally come with plastic gears in their transmissions, and have built-in slip clutches to prevent stripping the gears. Heavier tanks, like the Jagdpanther, will bog in heavy grass and dirt and you will get clutch slippage and the tank won't go. So a metal transmission is superior. If you buy a tank with metal tracks and metal drive and idler wheels it usually comes with a metal transmission.

Lighter tanks like the Sherman seem to do fine with the plastic transmission and do not clutch-slip much.

Metal tracks hang more heavily along the wheels and look more realistic. Plus they are just cool.

A "problem" with the metal tracks and wheels is you will have to paint them to match as they come bare.

So, you can get a fun-running, all-plastic tank for casual play for less than $200. If you want to upgrade to metal tracks, drive/idler wheels, and transmission, then the tanks cost about $250+. I think the metal is worth it. I have an all-plastic Jagdpanther and a metal-upgrade Jagdpanther and I would hesitate to buy a non-metal-upgrade tank again.

A word on the Airsoft / IR stuff.

I bought the Airsoft because I thought it would be cool to have a tank that really shot. Let me tell you, the airsoft guns in these tanks are no joke. They will shoot through 3 pieces of computer paper with ease. They will probably injure an eye if you got shot in the eye. And they will absolutely blast pieces off of other tanks if you shoot them. So if you are planning Airsoft tank battles be aware you will be smashing up your $200 tank.

You can buy airsoft BBs either online or at sporting goods stores.

Heng Long as stepped out of the IR battle arena as far as I know - all their tanks are now Airsoft I think. And even if you find a Heng Long IR tank, they may not be compatible with the Tamiya stuff, but I'm not sure on that. If you are just fighting at home, get matching IR setups. If you are planning on going to tank battles, make sure you get something commonly compatible.

Also I find the Airsoft guns are fragile/flaky and prone to quit working.

The smoker units in Heng Long tanks are also very flaky and fragile and all of mine quit working in short order. There is a tutorial around here on how to rebuild them with a real resistor inside instead of the coiled wire but I have not tried it yet. I think I will instead buy a drop-in replacement smoker eventually.

I think the Heng Long tanks are a good bang for the buck, but you will probably spend money on them on top of what you pay plus you will be doing a lot of tweaking/fixing on them.

I take mine out about once a week and just drive over stuff in the back yard and shoot myself with Airsoft bbs.

Steve
Old 02-09-2017, 11:32 AM
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Also my 2.4 Ghz Sherman has trim on the turning stick, which means you can trim the tank if it pulls to the left or right.

Here is a nice metal-upgrade Heng Long Tiger I 2.4 GHz for only $180:

https://www.amazon.com/German-Battle...ong+tank+metal

I'm tempted to grab one myself.

Steve
Old 02-09-2017, 01:18 PM
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Maillemaker, if you check the Tiger one in the link I provided to Skip above, you'll see a heng long tiger for under $90, with the very latest electronics and free shipping. I understand you're only trying to help but you might have cost that man quite a bit of money if he had bought the tank that you recommended. The one in your link is about $50 more and doesn't show the TX or say it's 2.4 GHz so it might even be 27 MHz.

I really hesitated before posting this because I don't want to rag on anyone, but this is something to give some thought to. (IMHO)

Last edited by Crius; 02-09-2017 at 01:22 PM.

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