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Old 06-30-2008, 08:20 AM
  #1601  
Rip n Bank
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build


ORIGINAL: 334755

Do you guys think that Futaba s3003 servos would work on the ailerons on the mustang.
I'd recommend you spend money on servos proportionate with the investment cost of the airplane.

3003's, at the low end of the Futaba servo line, do not fall into that category. You'd hate to have a ~$1500 Mustang auger in because a $15 servo failed!

In general, invest in a good quality 50-60 oz/in. torque servo. I use HiTec 545BB's (everywhere but flaps), but they've been discontinued. I think the 625BB's are close to those.

Especially, invest some money on the servos for Frankie's flaps. It takes a lot of torque, and strong set of gears, to handle defecting those large surfaces into a ~1/2 throttle airstream! For these, I use HiTec's 645MG metal gear servos. These same servos also have to be able to resist the upward deflection of the flaps when they are in the retracted position, and you pull a lot of positive G's in a high-speed climb or turn.

Rip
Old 06-30-2008, 10:21 AM
  #1602  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

hi guys, will be building a new frankie (long story, after total loss of model due to RX failure, long fight with Horizon, free replacement) and the FG36. couple questions on 2nd built, is it possible to keep it two piece wing? instead of one piee large surfboard? easier to trasnsport
appreciate any other build tips....
Old 06-30-2008, 10:34 AM
  #1603  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

Ive changed the prop from a 16x10x3 MAS to an 18x12 Menzjlik composite prop to see how it will fly the plane. On the ground, im getting 7500-7600 rpms.
Took it to the field to test fly and couldnt get the motor started. I think the onboard glow unit took a dive. I had hooked it up to charge overnight and the red led light that indicates charging never came on so i think its dead. Will call horizon and get replacement....althoguh I do have two of them here in the house already so i can swap them out without any delay.
I have developed another problem though...for some reason, i cant drain the fuel tank anymore so now I gotta pull all that out and investigate.

Anyhow..heres a pic with the new prop on it.
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Old 06-30-2008, 10:49 AM
  #1604  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build


ORIGINAL: kiosk

hi guys, will be building a new frankie (long story, after total loss of model due to RX failure, long fight with Horizon, free replacement) and the FG36. couple questions on 2nd built, is it possible to keep it two piece wing? instead of one piee large surfboard? easier to trasnsport
appreciate any other build tips....
Hi Kiosk,

I would guess that, due to Frankie's design, that's not really an option.

As you undoubtedly noticed on your first build, the wing spar is rather short, so as with most of these "short spar" designs, it is important that the load be transferred evenly across the entire "spar-receiving-box" built into the wing. Coating the spar, on all sides, with epoxy before insertion permits these loads to be evenly distributed across all four sides, and length, of that box.

Making it a 2-piece wing would cause the significant flying and landing loads, to which the wing is subjected, to be mechanically concentrated on the upper, centerline end-point, and the lower outer-most point, of this box only, like a lever would do.

This is why large RC aircraft designed with removable wings typically have long tubular spars so as to better transfer the loads over a greater distance.

Rip
Old 06-30-2008, 11:26 AM
  #1605  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

My last six or eight flights have been with the 16x12 APC. The 220 turns it at 8,800 on the ground. It does take a bit more runway on take-off, but at the same time, seems to be not so quick to veer left; much easier to keep straight on take-off. This plane really smokes with this prop. It even makes a whistle sound on low passes. I guess it's the air moving through the bombs mounted on the wings. Even everyone sitting back watching comments on the speed. Have had no problems with overheating and it still has great vertical.

Nick
Old 06-30-2008, 12:59 PM
  #1606  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

Here is video of friends electric H9 P-51 on 12s....shot the video yesterday. It was hard to keep the plane in focus some of the time cuz of how fast it was moving, but I think its a pretty good video.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showa...mentid=1941938
Old 06-30-2008, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

For all you guys running a Saito 180 in your Mustang what RPMS are you getting with what prop. I am breaking in this engine for my Mustang on the bench. The best it does is 8,300 with a 16x10 2 blade prop. I am using wildcat 20% and 15 Nitro per the manual. I have almost a gallon thru it now. It is also seem to be putting out a ton of smoke. I am just curious what experience others have had with this engine.
Old 06-30-2008, 02:52 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

thats nice, but way to quiet for a warbird for my taste.....
Old 06-30-2008, 03:07 PM
  #1609  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

Rip n Bank Date 6/30/2008 11:49:26 AM
I would guess that, due to Frankie's design, that's not really an option.
I agree with Rip. I think that would be a decision you'd regret. With my airplane all packed to go in my GMC Safari, (that I commandeered last year from the wife for a plane transport vehicle ) if you can get the fuse and transport cradle, with an 18-20" prop parked, you can probably fit the wing in too. If you can't, you may need a bigger vehicle, not smaller planes.

Have fun with the FG36. It's a blast on the 51! Well worth the firewall mods you will be facing. If you haven't already seen it, Horizon has some templates for the mods on their website. If you use them, you do need to make some adjustments, but man are they a time saver!

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Old 06-30-2008, 04:03 PM
  #1610  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

thanks reincarnate....this is second one....I built first one with FG36 but lost it to a RX failure (horizon replaced everything no charge luckily). FG36 is great motor but want to make it louder, any header pipe or the like for this?

the wing in one piece will be ok, I can put it in my car now since back seats fold down....it barely fits....but now def need get a wing bag, is hangar rash waiting to happen w/o it!

Old 07-01-2008, 02:52 PM
  #1611  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

u ever try that 4-blade Bolly? I want to try it out if it worked out for someone
Old 07-01-2008, 09:33 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

Got her out to the field today With the new 18x12 prop, I was nervous on how she'd taxi and how much p-factor might increase on the roll out. To my utter surprise...she just wanted to go completely straight down the runway. I didnt use much rudder at all. Honest. I also didnt have the gyro on. It was the best take off of any warbird Ive ever done.
Now, once in the air...she flew pretty well. Faster then the 16x10x3 prop and the motor seemed yo hum along a little better even at lower rpm's(about 7200 on the ground). She still was not as fast as ythe Electric P-51 shown in the video even though we are using the same size and pitch props, but I would say she was faster then Rips plane. However, I might be misjudging it as well. Without his in the air, its only subjective at this point.
Maybe Mikes APC prop on his electric is more efficient at speed then the Menz prop, but thats kinda backwards since the Menzlik is composite and costs $40.

Anyhow....after about 5 mins..I decided to come in for landing. The motror started sounding a little odd so it got me worried. The first landing attempt I got caught by some cross wind I wasnt expecting and was bouncing the plane around. I had to throttle up and go around, but for some reason the throttle response was sluggish and I really thought it might cutout.....sounded like it was gonna so I was carefully raised the throttle gently to get back to flying speed. Motor didnt seem to want to run as well, so maybe I have it too rich...dunno.
Anyhow....came around again and lined up and slowed down pretty decent, but think I hit the runway with the wheels too soon and she bounced back up. Once that happened, it was hard to keep it level and she bounced a few more times before dropping the tail. Unfortunately, for some reason, she nosed over a little and caught the prop and tore up the tips. Will have to replace the prop, but otherwise everything is OK on the plane.
Old 07-02-2008, 09:37 AM
  #1613  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build


ORIGINAL: kahloq

Got her out to the field today With the new 18x12 prop, I was nervous on how she'd taxi and how much p-factor might increase on the roll out. To my utter surprise...she just wanted to go completely straight down the runway. I didnt use much rudder at all. Honest. I also didnt have the gyro on. It was the best take off of any warbird Ive ever done.
Now, once in the air...she flew pretty well. Faster then the 16x10x3 prop and the motor seemed yo hum along a little better even at lower rpm's(about 7200 on the ground). She still was not as fast as ythe Electric P-51 shown in the video even though we are using the same size and pitch props, but I would say she was faster then Rips plane. However, I might be misjudging it as well. Without his in the air, its only subjective at this point.
Maybe Mikes APC prop on his electric is more efficient at speed then the Menz prop, but thats kinda backwards since the Menzlik is composite and costs $40.

Anyhow....after about 5 mins..I decided to come in for landing. The motror started sounding a little odd so it got me worried. The first landing attempt I got caught by some cross wind I wasnt expecting and was bouncing the plane around. I had to throttle up and go around, but for some reason the throttle response was sluggish and I really thought it might cutout.....sounded like it was gonna so I was carefully raised the throttle gently to get back to flying speed. Motor didnt seem to want to run as well, so maybe I have it too rich...dunno.
Anyhow....came around again and lined up and slowed down pretty decent, but think I hit the runway with the wheels too soon and she bounced back up. Once that happened, it was hard to keep it level and she bounced a few more times before dropping the tail. Unfortunately, for some reason, she nosed over a little and caught the prop and tore up the tips. Will have to replace the prop, but otherwise everything is OK on the plane.
Kahloq,

Looking forward to putting them up "side by side" for some speed comparisons. Soon, I also intend to switch my MAS 18x8 to a MAS 18x10 prop to see what relative change, if any, in speed that provides. Figure I'm a bit over 4 gallons total run thru Frankie, so I'm looking forward to the proverbial "loosening" the 220 goes thru at the 5-gallon (or so) point.

Nick's success with the 16x12 prop is also quite intriguing! Glanced back thru the posts but didn't see a 17x12 mentioned anywhere. Does anyone even make one?

Rip
Old 07-02-2008, 10:57 AM
  #1614  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

I've posted my results on a fist-full of different props. The 16x12 is the best I've run so far. APC makes a 16x14 that I might try just for fun, but the 16x12 is the best combo I've found for keeping the 220 in a good RPM range plus the high speed I want.

Nick
Old 07-02-2008, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build


ORIGINAL: kahloq

I have a pair of 705RS robart retracts Im using in the KMP B-25. These would fit the H9 P-51, but not the bolt pattern. It would require simply drilling new holes and installing some new blind nuts.
Robart makes a drop in set for the H-9 P-51 #631HA9P51 , $239.20. There is no picture on their website of them. They say it take 4 weeks to produce them.
My guess is they are a 630 series modified to fit the H-9 pattern with a straight 1/2" strut.

I have an H9 P-51 and H9 P-47 that I have yet to fly either but I am going to use the factory gear with a Shindin strut. If that doesn't work out I will use the Robarts as they make drop ins for both.
Old 07-02-2008, 02:19 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

I have been reading this forum since I bought my Frankie months ago (have not flown it to date), at the field yesterday a friend was flying his and made two approaches to land on the third approach with flaps down made his turn to start lining up with the field at about 100 feet the mustang snapped straight into the runway. To date he had at least 35 flights that we could count together. The speed looked good similar to the prior two approaches the wind was head on at 8-10mph. Not sure what happened, minimal damage to the fuse and the wing is in tact. Has anyone else had any strange tendencies to note.
Old 07-02-2008, 02:24 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

No strange tendancies at 25+ flights.
Nick
Old 07-02-2008, 04:14 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

mdishinger,

This airplane will snap for one reason and one reason only other than a major failure of one of the 51's flying surfaces or radio failure. THAT IS! SLOWING HER DOWN TOO MUCH WHILE TURNING FROM BASE TO FINAL OR ON THE ACTUAL FINAL APPROACH. It's called an approach to landing stall. Same with real airplanes. IF your final approach to landing with this airplane is kept at a steeper than normal decent, but obviously not straight down, you keep her speed up, full flaps, she's flying with authority and not walloring in close to a stall, SHE WILL NOT SNAP!!!!
There is no strange tendencies in this mustang unless the strange tendency is how the airplane was built. However, you said your friend already had approx. 35 flights on her so it would seem that it was built right. SO! I am only left with one conclusion, He must have got the nose up too high while turning from base to final which would cause the airspeed to bleed off dramatically. Once that happens, you have two choices before you die. Full power NOW! to get airspeed back at once, or lower the nose if you've got enough altitude to pick flying speed that way. You have to FLY this airplane all the way to the touch down. Only after you've cleared the threshold of the active runway, can you really pull off all power and let her settle, and even then she will let you know when she's ready to quite flying. I've actually got less than a dozen flghts on mine and she's rock solid.


DANG! I LOVE TIS HOBBY............................................. ...............CAPTAIN RON.
Old 07-03-2008, 09:29 AM
  #1619  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

Kahloq, I was reading in the earlier posts and saw a picture of the cockpit inside of your kmp me 109. I was wondering where you were able to acquire those instruments.
Old 07-03-2008, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

I put those isntruments in the ME-109 as well as my version of Frankie....ala "One Bad *****".
They can be bought from either www.kmp.ca or www.hobby-lobby.com
Old 07-06-2008, 06:20 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

Had a Kahloq (sorry, couldn't resist ) day at the field with Frankie today. Field problems too numerous to list have kept mine grounded for the year, and the new FG36 was begging to be run and flown. Well my "No hanger queens" mindset kicked in and I loaded her up and took her to the field. The Saito fired and and ran great, generating some interest from those who hadn't heard it run, but when I lifted off and started on the low level passes with the big four stroke, nearly everyone was listening.
After about 5 minutes of so, I thought the engine started sounding different so I called for landing, dropped the gear, and after bleeding a little speed, full flaps. No sooner than I turned final, I lost all power to the engine, and although it was running, I couldn't get any power. Barley broke the threshold before I touched too hot and flat and bounced once before nosing over hard.
No damage at all, luckily except for slightly bent struts (already fixed) and bruised pride. The prop didn't even break, since the engine had quit and the prop was at 9 and 3. The gear didn't break out, and probably should have, so the reinforcements were worth the effort.
Why did the engine cut?? Low voltage on ignition battery, I load checked it before flight and got 5.6V (4.8 v nicad) and after about 6 minutes in the air it drained to 4.4v. I;ll need to check for more problems with ignition tomorrow, but hopefully it's just a bad pack, and I can get some more time on her this week, since I have the whole week off!
Old 07-06-2008, 11:32 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

hate those type of days. Might consider a slightly larger battery for the ignition? A fellow club member has one of the Fg36's and he's seen the same issue. I forgot what size battery he's using, but the motor does seem to burn through the amps pretty quick.
Old 07-07-2008, 12:39 PM
  #1623  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

a lot folks at my field are running those new A123 batteries for the 50cc and 100cc ignitions....suppose be really good batteries, same as lipo w/o the side effects
Old 07-07-2008, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

The engine issue has resolved itself with the replacement of the pack, and a slight richening of the HS needle. However a new and repetitive problem has surfaced yet again. Flew two flights this morning, one with chin cowl removed, and one with it back on, just to ensure temp wasn't a big problem. On landing the second time, after a smooth touchdown and taxi back, I brought it back in to check and refuel. As is my habit with the retracts, I lifted the nose and cycled them once, to insure they had not bent on landing. All good there, but when I dropped them back down I noticed that one side had slightly more toe in than normal. Upon inspection, I found that the weld that attaches the scissor to the strut had cracked, and a hard wiggle on the wheel finished the job. The weld simply separated from the strut. There was no adhesion of steel to steel. This is the second set of gear that I've had this problem on, and in the same place. A call to HH service found that evidently I am the only person that has ever bought this airplane that this has happened to. They have offered to inspect the gear and send me new set, but I think I'll fix it myself. I'm sure of my welding abilities. Heck, a JB weld probably would have more strength than this had.

Check your gear, and include this in your pre and thru flight checks. Mine wasn't a hard landing at all, in fact it was as smooth as any I ever done.
Old 07-07-2008, 03:07 PM
  #1625  
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Default RE: New Hangar 9 1.50 P-51 Build

REIN,
Good to see you piping back in again on the old Frankie forum that our good friend RIP N BANK started so many moons ago. I had an outstanding day yesterday with my Frankie. HOWEVER! I did hear from two of the old timers in the pits that Frankie's Big Saito was over revving ALOT! Now, I had not heard this before so I was quite mistified. She is really starting to break in and come around but it didn't seem to me that the big motor was over revving. A bad tach battery kept me from doing a static on the ground. I'm swinging an 18x8 Master Screw as is RIP n BANK and I think Kahloq. She just seems to be really unloading as I swing out of altitude for a nice long dive to a WOT pass down the runway. Just lookin for some thoughts here. Ordered a Zoar 18x10 from Chief Aircraft this AM. The 10 pitch should load her up a bit more. I'll lose some RPM'S but gain some speed. I just hope I don't lose that beautiful sound. Sorry to hear of your continued gear problems. Mine have been trouble free and solid. Knoch on wood, she's only got 10 flghts on her. We'll see how she's doing at 20 and 30 and so on. I also check them before and after each fight for looseness and trouble spots. Trust me, my landings with Frankie are just now starting to look like a mustang's suppose to land. They've seen some rough times. Are you using Kelvin's inverted exhaust on the Saito gasser? I'm looking at the FG36 for the new KMP Corsair 74.5 incher they have coming out in this month. There calling for a 1.50 to a 1.80, so I thought the Saito FG 36 would be perfect for this altitude.
Fiberglass fuse, and built up wing. Comes covered and then painted with that Navy flat Corsair bue. DEcals applied and then cleared with a flat clear. It looks awesome on the web site.



DANG! I LOVE THIS HOBBY............................................. ..........................CAPTAIN RON.


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