kahloq

Not sure what you mean. I used two servos. One per elevator half.

snappa

I have decided to ground this plane until I sort the issues of control even though its 95% done, there is alot of energy and weight in this beast, I dont want any mishaps at the feild, and I lost two planes yesterday which has knocked me a bit... one of them is over two years old now and was a beauty ( http://ak-models.com/mm5/merchant.mv...Model_GasPower )

kahloq

What issues of control are you referring to? If you want, I have pictures of the control rod and balck tube installation. I can post them here if you like.

snappa

thats what I meant so two servos sounds like a good idea too have you posted any pics on this thread how you did it? the issues of control I have started off with the "Y" lead to the elevator I have never been very happy with it, then while running some tests I discovered the rudder control had too much flex in it from the wire having a slight zig zag in it to fit, yes I have installed two bulkheads to support the rods but its very crude for such a nice plane

kahloq

here ya go.

The first two pics show the additional servo tray I glued in place since my big batteries sit on the stock servo tray. The two DS821's are the elevator servos. The next few pics show the control rods going through the black fiberglass tubs. I cut a little off one of the tubes to use at the back end where the fairing exit is for the rudder as well because this control rod is run through a metal tub with nylon insert. This makes sure the control rod doesnt bend since the metal/nylon tube wasnt long enough. You can see in one of the pics some of the black tube which is glued inside the fairing rod exits for the elevator halves.

snappa

with pull pull and the two wires going down the center can you get resonance or vibration issues? especially with a big 180 glow thumping away in the front? here is a hybrid of both our ideas?

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

snappa on all my CMP planes I have used a few control options that may help your concern and they have never failed me .
option one
1)4-40 rod -heavey duty connector
2)take a small dowl-channel out a small line for the rod to incert or "lay flat "aprox 2" long .
3), wrap with sting , expoxy and incert into carbon fiber light weight long push rod
4)Do the same thing at the opposite end .
5)WHen exiting the plane you use typical red pushrod tube that allows the 4-40 to escape the fuse in a smooth manner
6)Yuo make sure you have clearance inside the fuse so that the carbon part of the rod is not hitting the fuse
7)This provides a light weight non flexing very strong rod to the control surfaces and the internal servos .
8)WHen approaching the servos or any internal support again its a simple matter of usieng red push rod tube that allows support to the 4-4o rod and allows movemnet .
Also in my seafury I made the Y set up you discussed with two 4-40 rods , and the rest of the set up was the same .
I can achieve no bind movement and no flex at all under load with this method .
Your concerns as you set up are
keep the dowels short as they add weight , plan your 4-40 portions carefully so that you get good smooth no bind exits but yuo also get good support ect .
This menthod has never failed even in very tight appliactions , you just need to plan the exist

Schummie

Hello,

According to the push rods issues. I basicly use the Y setup for the elevators. However I replaced the nylon for carbon rods, for both the long rod, and the Y-split. In the hollow rods I glued 2mm threaded rods on which the metal links are screwed. I'ts very stiff, and has no flexing at all and still very light.

I basicly did the same for the rudder. In this case I glued in a litlle support piece of ply to prevent the piece of metal rod to the horn on the rudder from flexing. Also this connection is flex free. The advantage is in my opinion that one doesn't have to modify a lot.
For the tailwheel I used the Hobbycity one as advised earlier in this forum. I'ts bigger, but much more scale like than the provided one.
If you want I can try to add pictures.

Regards,

Eric Schumacher, Netherlands.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Kahlog (and all others), It looks like you have EZ connectors on your servo for your elevater connections. PLEASE replace those with a Z bend. Those types of connecters can and do fail and ARE NOT legal in many AMA events for that reason. I know, they came with the plane but the manufacturer is WRONG! I wish they would not send those out with these ARFs. Just another aspect of the hardware package that should not be used. After your great test flight, I want to see your 109 around for a while. It is a great looking plane.

Vert

kahloq

I honestly dont like Z-bends. I had a pair of the z-bend pliers but they were no good for 4-40. In fact, I tried making z-bends for this plane and it bent the pliers instead of correctly forming the z-bend. As for the EZ connectors, while they may not be AMA legal in certain events, ive had no problems with them on either the KMP or CMP planes. I did flat spot the control rod for the setscrew hex bolt and also locktited it down. Hopefully it'll hold. They are also Dubro brand. The ones on the elvator did not come with the planes hardware package, but the ones for the flaps and ailerons did.

That being said, I will consider other options down the road since the current setup is already in place. I have a spare plane, so if something does happen and its the fault of the EZ connectors, ill build the 2nd one differently.

BQuartucy

OK guys here's myTCW. I have a shock absorbing retractable tail wheel. The retract mechanism is a HITEK #82MG servo slaved to the retract channel. The rudder and tailwheel dirrection are controled by the same servo and pull-pull cables. The elevator halves are connected by a 1/8 dia steel rod with a control horn made from a wheel collar with a brass arm soldered to the collar. the steel rod is bent in an L shape and inserted through holes made in the fuselage just aft of the stab mounts in the verticle stab. The control arm is put on the straight end of the arm and then the arm pushed thru the other side. The second bend is then made for the other elevator half. (Thanks Steve) You should have ground a flat in the rod to hold the control arm in place. You can tighten the set screw thru the middle hole for the rudder hinge. The elevator control rod is positoned such that the pull is up and the push is down. The control rod has a 4-40 carbon fiber center and a clear outer shell which is attached to formers at both ends to prevent buckeling.
I'll add some pics with comments.
Pic 1 shows the pull pull cables for the rudder and the steel rod and control arm for the elevator.
Pic 2 shows the servo that controls the rudder and tailwheel with the 4 cables.
Pic 3 shows the control arm for the tailwheel and the mechnism for centering the tailwheel when retracted.
Pic 4 shows the wheel retracted and the mount for the tailwheel.
Pic 5 shows the tailwheel when retracted.
Pic 6 shows the extended positon

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I have used the easy connectors as well with zero problems , in my opinion there called easy connectros because they allow easy set up , then from that point you need to make them secure .
So I do the following , set my servo end with easy connectors , my control surface end with normal heavy duty clevases that have some type of lock .
Once set I only make my adjustments at the flight surface end manually and at the radio .
My easy connector will have the push rod grinded flat at the set screw position , then locked as tight as possible then I use J-B weld on the entire connection.
WHen you reuse the servos in other planes , simply change the wheel out .
Now some one will read this and skip the part where I stated how I make my adjustments and say why are you jb welding them ???? its simple it works and its easy , remember I like them for the set up stage , then I lock them in , they have never failed ever in 5 years of warbird flying and my set up is very easy

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Where they fail is popping off the servo horn. (not slipping on the set screw) You would be much better off taking a threaded end and soldering it together, wrapping it with wire. Then you would have a clevis on both ends. Z bends are no problem with a good pair of needle nose pliers, I will show you one day at the field.
Even though no personal failures have been experienced, The reason why such rules exist in the rule book, is because they do fail. I have had it happen to me twice on throttles.
Kahlog, being one of my flying partners, knows how little problems I have with losing aircraft. These little details add up to making your planes last longer. I would not trust thousands of dollars to saving a few minutes and a few cents to a control surface termination that is known to be sub standard.
Please do not think I am being condescending, I would just hate to see anyone lose a plne because of this.

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

BQ

Nice to see your back. And nice job on the tail wheel.

Steve

kahloq

vert g. I dont think your being condescending at all. Your just sharing your concerns.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

I agree I can see them failing at that part of the assembly , its a tight hammer type assembly , not really the best for RC .
I understand your concern and will note it and try to see what I can come up with that still works and is safe .
Perhaps even sodering as you stated , thanks for the tip

snappa

I assume when you say "easy connectors" you mean the ones a rod slides through? I have never felt comfortable with these compared to other methods there is alot of vibration on a throttle, I may change mine out yet

snappa

Actually after looking at BQuartucy's setup I am seriously considering pulling off my elevator and starting again....... must admit I really like the retractable wheel idea Just not sure how easy it will be to remove the elevator halves

snappa

BQuartucy is that tail whell fully home made?

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

snappa , yes that is the type .
I first used them on a VQ P40 , I also only fly 4 strokes and they tend to vibrate . I learned in my early stages with 4 strokes that everything on the engines better be set and set solid or it will vibrate loose and you loose pressure on the engine .
With that I tried the VQ easy connections , they were slighty differant vs Dubro becasue the botton part that goes thru the servo wheel was actually a machine screw .While this may semm better the small bolt would simply come loose with normal servo turns in normal use .
So I look at pics of RCU members that were flying the VQ p40 with success and noticed that everyone used JB weld on the bolt and on the push rod and around the set screw .
Most were making the adjustments at the radio end or clevis end .
I like VG comments on how to make them better or why we should not use them at all , its a good concern that makes me want to think twice about even useing soder on them .
I know vibration is a killer of planes and I do take major precautions at every possible turn from JB weld to plumbers tabe on sleeves , to solder and to Z42 thread lock .
I remember my first cub having the set screws come loose on the wheel retainers from vibration lol , and my first Duro plane the entire engine came loose [X(].
I rather learn from others then loose my planes

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

as a follower of this thread I felt compelled to note this inaccuracy with EZ conenecors, I also have several of these EZ connectors on a few planes, firstly if you tighten them and use loctite on the set screw there not coming loose,the use of a small flat on the pushrod also insures that there is almost no way that the pushrod will slip, or move.
I need to try the JB Weld idea,I like that.

secondly there is no way that a Dubro EZ connector is coming off when using the metal permanent clip that comes with it unless you destroy the clip and the connector, the amount of stress needed is way more than a control surface is capable of producing under even extreme flight conditions,I know this from destroying several of the EZ connectors trying to remove them from servo horns, and then trying to reuse them unsucsessfully afterwords.

if your using the rubber removable retainer, then there is a chance the EZ connector can come loose from the servo horn under stress, and should be used only for throttle or accessory type uses, its why they come with the 2 types of retainer clips.

if you have had trouble with them coming off then you should use the metal retainer then they won't come loose for sure.

I have also used the Hangar-9 connectors, savaged from discarded retracts, that use C clips,and a washer, for the retainers with no problems.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I am sure you do not care, but try entering an AMA Q-500 event with an EZ connector on a major control surface. You would not be allowed to fly.
Even with the metal clip, it may not come completely off, but the slop that is created when those things slide up and down is undesirable as well. You are not speaking to a novice here. I have been there and done that with just about anything you can throw this way. Over 25 years and 20 in competition.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

I don't do contests so it doesn't really matter to me, I am not into competition,obviously you take yourself way to seriously, I just have fun with this hobby.

when people have one opinion they seem to want to propagate as the one end all fact of the matter,when others don't feel the same you need to pound your chest and brag on your accomplishments good for you, if it makes you feel better good on ya.

I have been doing this hobby for a long time my self, started flying control line at about age 8, flew my first RC plane at 14 at 45 its been a while for me as well, even after a long break from model building I know how they work and what makes a part function and how to properly install it and operate it.

as for the clips loosening up it takes some doing,I have planes 5years old the EZ connectors are as good as the day I installed them.

I am comfortable with my opinion, as you should be with yours you need to relax and fly your own planes the way you want them .

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

big tim I 100% use the medal clips , and yes they dont come off , but JB weld will make me sleep better on the medal clip end as well

HW50

When I had my CMP Giles 202 140 model on the building table I followed a dedicated thread for the model with great enthusiasm. It seems now to have flattened out at post #908.

Now with the BF109F on the table I look up this thread several times each day. I have now stopped worrying if it will outlast the before mentioned thread.

Looking forward to many interesting posts in 2009.

Thank you and a happy new year to all !

Helge.