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MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

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Old 05-23-2011, 07:43 AM
  #1251  
westwind two
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hi Jack,
Glad to see you like radial warbirds also. We are operating four Moki's up here all working fine now. Last year we had 12 Moki powered aircraft flying at Warbirds over Delaware. Hope to see you soon.

Dave Malchione
Old 05-23-2011, 05:37 PM
  #1252  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hey Dave, nice to hear from you.
I do like those engines a lot. They are a great piece of engineering.
I have my Moki 250 on a AW FW-190, and got on the waiting list for a P-47 from Comp-Arf.
A friend has a Corsair with another 250, but he is still waiting for his courage to grow a little more before flying it.

My regards to all your family, and hope to see you guys soon too.

Jack
Old 05-23-2011, 06:27 PM
  #1253  
westwind two
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

We have a pair of CARF Corsairs and a pair of Cactus Bearcats with 215's in the Bearcats. All are running good now. Great job at Top Gun ....

Dave
Old 05-24-2011, 04:26 AM
  #1254  
Detlef Kunkel
 
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: DENTO


G-DAY Detlef
Sorry to impose but had a look at your profile and it went to Everything radial engines, Yet to get into it,Just a question about the APS pump do you need a turbolater with or without the pump to get the same distrubution of fuel to the cylinders .
REGARDS
JOHN

G-Day John

Sorry to have you waiting for an answer.
Both, the fuel pump, and the turbulator, help the engine to run up to its best performance. Not only in terms of rpms, but in smooth, calm operation, avoiding some shortcomings that these engine have.
I do not say everything else is wrong, but due to the construction of these radials and the use of a walbro type carburetor, an uneven mixture for all cylinders is "constructed in".
One carby has a richer medium range mixure, the other more the leaner kind. But you cannot adjust medium range! One customer has another fuel tank setup as the other, and one Moki-Fuelpump works better than the other.
Thats why you cannot tell that one thing is strictly necessary for all engines.
BUT: the construction with the carby in the back of the crankcase is the same with all engines. One suffers more than the other as explained above. But suffer they all do.
There was not one retrofitted engine that did not benefit from the turbulator retrofit (after more than 100 engines (!) there is some experience)
The vibration level decreases, showing that the 5 cylinders begin to develop equal power to the crankshaft, fuel consumption decreases, as unburnt fuel does not longer leave the engine (what a waste od energy and power) , exhaust fumes are much drier ( as a 4-stroke engine should have).
And one thing is there that most people do not see: when there is a rich cylinder, of course there is a lean one , too! That should be the one to be cared for, but nobody recognizes it ( ( it is the No 1cylinder on top, having nothing to do with gravity or so. Turn the carby by 180° and another one will be wet, while another one will be the hottest).

The fuel pump is a great thing, it gets rid of the engines weak fuel supply and allows a correct setup for the carby. No more looking for grease in the pump line, causing problems and a hot engine..

From my experience, the combination of the APS fuelpump and the turbulator is what I call a dream team for the engine. Both of the 2 shortcomings are sorted out. If you have it both on you engine, you will notice how exact and pointed the engines needles can be set now. Gone the days how this felt like stirring a cake mixture. Normally, you hardly can set your moki too rich. Turning out the H-needles by 2 or 3 turns often causesnothing! This tells you much about the fuel supply- it is the weakest point. Not the needle as it was meant to be (!!)
After retrofitting both items, the engine reacts precisely, like a good 2-stroke engine, and anybody can easily find the right setup.

When you go onand use a good baffling to keep the temperatures down, you have one of the most pleasing and reliable engines on the market .
Old 05-25-2011, 03:51 PM
  #1255  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Flew today with the cowling on.
Perfect. No change in performance.
Wonderful engine.

Jack
Old 05-25-2011, 05:33 PM
  #1256  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: Detlef Kunkel


ORIGINAL: DENTO


G-DAY Detlef
Sorry to impose but had a look at your profile and it went to Everything radial engines, Yet to get into it,Just a question about the APS pump do you need a turbolater with or without the pump to get the same distrubution of fuel to the cylinders .
REGARDS
JOHN

G-Day John

Sorry to have you waiting for an answer.
Both, the fuel pump, and the turbulator, help the engine to run up to its best performance. Not only in terms of rpms, but in smooth, calm operation, avoiding some shortcomings that these engine have.
I do not say everything else is wrong, but due to the construction of these radials and the use of a walbro type carburetor, an uneven mixture for all cylinders is ''constructed in''.
One carby has a richer medium range mixure, the other more the leaner kind. But you cannot adjust medium range! One customer has another fuel tank setup as the other, and one Moki-Fuelpump works better than the other.
Thats why you cannot tell that one thing is strictly necessary for all engines.
BUT: the construction with the carby in the back of the crankcase is the same with all engines. One suffers more than the other as explained above. But suffer they all do.
There was not one retrofitted engine that did not benefit from the turbulator retrofit (after more than 100 engines (!) there is some experience)
The vibration level decreases, showing that the 5 cylinders begin to develop equal power to the crankshaft, fuel consumption decreases, as unburnt fuel does not longer leave the engine (what a waste od energy and power) , exhaust fumes are much drier ( as a 4-stroke engine should have).
And one thing is there that most people do not see: when there is a rich cylinder, of course there is a lean one , too! That should be the one to be cared for, but nobody recognizes it ( ( it is the No 1cylinder on top, having nothing to do with gravity or so. Turn the carby by 180° and another one will be wet, while another one will be the hottest).

The fuel pump is a great thing, it gets rid of the engines weak fuel supply and allows a correct setup for the carby. No more looking for grease in the pump line, causing problems and a hot engine..

From my experience, the combination of the APS fuelpump and the turbulator is what I call a dream team for the engine. Both of the 2 shortcomings are sorted out. If you have it both on you engine, you will notice how exact and pointed the engines needles can be set now. Gone the days how this felt like stirring a cake mixture. Normally, you hardly can set your moki too rich. Turning out the H-needles by 2 or 3 turns often causesnothing! This tells you much about the fuel supply- it is the weakest point. Not the needle as it was meant to be (!!)
After retrofitting both items, the engine reacts precisely, like a good 2-stroke engine, and anybody can easily find the right setup.

When you go on and use a good baffling to keep the temperatures down, you have one of the most pleasing and reliable engines on the market .
HI DETLEF
Thanks for your responce,I think you have explained it the way that I have seen it in this forum,Your thermal shot shows that the turbolator improves the flow of fuel to the cylinders and with the pump at constant flow one could not get it better,Thanks again.
REGARDS
JOHN
Old 05-28-2011, 05:10 AM
  #1257  
tony67
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hi all
Scott thank you for starting this great source of information and to all who have contributed.
I am on final stage of detailing and painting my Don Smith P-47. It's been a couple of yearson and off . I am using a moki 215 yah would of prefered a 250 but this is what I have. The plane will come out at 63lbs. I would like to know if the 13" long 3/4" flex tube will cause any exhaust ristriction or maybe it would help in going up to 1"
Thank's
Tony
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Old 05-28-2011, 07:10 AM
  #1258  
Detlef Kunkel
 
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: tony67

Hi all
Scott thank you for starting this great source of information and to all who have contributed.
I am on final stage of detailing and painting my Don Smith P-47. It's been a couple of yearson and off . I am using a moki 215 yah would of prefered a 250 but this is what I have. The plane will come out at 63lbs. I would like to know if the 13" long 3/4" flex tube will cause any exhaust ristriction or maybe it would help in going up to 1"
Thank's
Tony

Tony,
I would strongly recommend 1" dia (if not even more)
The engine will increase its inner temperatures when you have restrictions in your exhaust system.
Old 05-28-2011, 07:45 AM
  #1259  
samparfitt
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Tony,
When I installed my cyclone dust collector in my workshop, not only the size of the duct but also how many turns make a big difference (the length is also critical as all that surface area creates friction). Also, the interior of that flex pipe has all kinds of ridges so that also creates air resistance. As for size, the volume created is not linear when increasing size: example, going from a 2" square to a 4" square increases volume by four times (2x2=4 versus 4X4=16).
The 3/4" piping may be just fine, but keep in mind the above, should you have any problems.

You may also want to consider using plumber's copper tubing, at least on the straight runs, to eliminate some of the flexible pipe.
Old 05-28-2011, 08:01 AM
  #1260  
tony67
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Thank's for the suggestions I will try to use a 1 1/4" tube to better my chances. Is anyone using extended exhaust on there moki and if so any issues.
Old 05-28-2011, 12:07 PM
  #1261  
Detlef Kunkel
 
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ORIGINAL: tony67

Is anyone using extended exhaust on there moki and if so any issues.
Me.



Made from stainless 28 mm tube ( Krumscheid elbow tube with a long cutout and then silver soldered together. Gives a long cone and improves your sound.



Be sure, flex tubing kills deep frequencies, the end ofany nice four stroke sound (!!)

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Old 05-28-2011, 04:55 PM
  #1262  
tony67
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You are absolutly right about killing low frequencies I have a DLE 111 on a Nosen P-47 WITH 12" long 1" diameter flex tube and the sound changed to a higher metalic pitchy sound if that makes any sence. In other words the sound from the stock mufflers sounded a lot thicker and low tone to it. I will try running the engine with and with out the flex pipes and compare both results.
Old 05-29-2011, 11:16 AM
  #1263  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hello,

I've heart Gerhard Reinch did many flights with a four stroke boxer Valach. But suddenly the engine was broken. As far as I understand ( but I'm not 100 % sure ) the fuel was Aspen premixed. The oil was burnt in combustion so pure, that there is too litle amount left for greasing the cylinders properly, that should be the explanation.
So as I use the same fuel, together with many others, will there be the same problem with the Moki radial ?

fg


koen
Old 05-29-2011, 12:28 PM
  #1264  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: Detlef Kunkel




ORIGINAL: tony67

Is anyone using extended exhaust on there moki and if so any issues.
Me.



Made from stainless 28 mm tube ( Krumscheid elbow tube with a long cutout and then silver soldered together. Gives a long cone and improves your sound.



Be sure, flex tubing kills deep frequencies, the end ofany nice four stroke sound (!!)

These are exactly the kind of thing I had in mind for my Meister P-47 and Moki 150... I doubt I could do such a nice job though..

Old 06-05-2011, 09:22 AM
  #1265  
jairaksinen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Hello from Finland

Thank you very much for starting such a helpfull thread.

I have a question about Moki 250cc. More specifically about the first start of the day.

The only way I can get it running is the inject some gasoline straight into top cylinder. After that it starts wiht couple of flips.

Can anyone point me how to fix this?

It looks like that the carburator does not suck the at all when I try to flip it. All the line are thight. The tank is couple centimeters above the center line. However the line to the carb has first a filter and then the line goes to bottom of the plane and there is a fill port. The the line goes to the carb. The line the the engine is some 20 centimeters alltogether. Could the lenght of the line cause this?

Otherwice the engine is great. It is mounted on a 1/4 scale Corsair with folding wings. Built from Don Smith plans. It turns 30"x16" three blade SOLOprop at about 4300-4500 RPM.

Moreover, I do not have a gas pump nor turbulator or velocity stack.

EDIT: Also it does not help if I fill the line with gasoline. It will not start until I have given the "jump start".

Old 06-05-2011, 09:51 AM
  #1266  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Try this:
-Choke closed, full throttle, ignition ON.
-Grab the props firmly with both hands, and start turning them slowly until you feel a strong kick. (it may take up to 10 turns)
-Open the choke, throttle to idle, half throttle trim.
-Another couple of turns while firmly grabbing the prop (with both hands). You will feel the explosions on your hands.
-Flip the prop to start.

This works for me every time flawlessly.

Jack
Old 06-05-2011, 10:15 AM
  #1267  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

While doing routine maintenance on my 250, I put my finger into the exhaust extension tubes to check for carbon residues. BTW, this is a great source for weathering material !!! I use it a lot.
I felt a strange restriction in the tube, and took it apart.
As exhaust extensions I used pieces of Helicopter tail boom.
Pictures below show what I found ..... not good at all.
I made them from HD aluminum wing tube now.

If someone invents an exhaust turbulator, you guys know that I did it first


Jack
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Old 06-05-2011, 10:59 AM
  #1268  
jairaksinen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: Jack Diaz

Try this:
-Choke closed, full throttle, ignition ON.
-Grab the props firmly with both hands, and start turning them slowly until you feel a strong kick. (it may take up to 10 turns)
-Open the choke, throttle to idle, half throttle trim.
-Another couple of turns while firmly grabbing the prop (with both hands). You will feel the explosions on your hands.
-Flip the prop to start.

This works for me every time flawlessly.

Jack
So the key is to turn slowly. I will give it a go. Now that I remember, it was mentioned in the manual.
I suppose that the ignition is on just the let you know when you have turned it enough?
Thank you very much for help.

Does the turning slowly give a better pulse for the carb or what is the secret of turning slowly?

Old 06-05-2011, 11:47 AM
  #1269  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

You cannot turn it fast if you are grabbing the props with both hands. You are not flipping the prop. You are just turning it while holding. Be careful though ... it kicks real hard.
Besides, this method saves a lot of shoulder pain.

Here is a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQdH5n5Cao8

Jack
Old 06-05-2011, 12:30 PM
  #1270  
dos007
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

I am ready to buy a warbird with radial but I have a couple of questions before I place the order.

Is there any difference between the Moki 250 and the RCS 250 by TBM?

I have narrowed by choice of airframes down to 3. Do any of these have any bad habits or are they not a good fit for a 250 radial... the Scale Wings LA7, the Fischer Wildcat or the Comp ARF Corsair?
Old 06-05-2011, 01:50 PM
  #1271  
RichardGee
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Jack,

Just wondering if you are still enjoying good performance from your 250 since switching to the 50:1 synthetic mix?

Despite all the calls for pumps and percolators, sometimes it's the simplest things that get the job done...
Old 06-05-2011, 02:37 PM
  #1272  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

007,

The RSC 250, AMR 250, & Moki 250 are all the same engine. The different names has to do with distribution rights. Vogelsang is the only distributor in the US authorized to use the "Moki" name.

As far as warbirds are concerned, you have made three excellent choices. My personal preference is for the Scale Wings La-7 @ 1:3.5 scale. However, any of them would make a excellent project.

Good luck,
Old 06-05-2011, 03:45 PM
  #1273  
Jack Diaz
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

Richard: Yes.
It is working perfect.
Almost two gallons of 50/1 fuel burnt already, without a single misfire.

I am not thinking about the engine anymore while I fly. Just enjoying it !!!

This was yesterday:

jack
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:24 AM
  #1274  
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence


ORIGINAL: jairaksinen

Hello from Finland

Thank you very much for starting such a helpfull thread.

I have a question about Moki 250cc. More specifically about the first start of the day.

The only way I can get it running is the inject some gasoline straight into top cylinder. After that it starts wiht couple of flips.

Can anyone point me how to fix this?

It looks like that the carburator does not suck the at all when I try to flip it. All the line are thight. The tank is couple centimeters above the center line. However the line to the carb has first a filter and then the line goes to bottom of the plane and there is a fill port. The the line goes to the carb. The line the the engine is some 20 centimeters alltogether. Could the lenght of the line cause this?

Otherwice the engine is great. It is mounted on a 1/4 scale Corsair with folding wings. Built from Don Smith plans. It turns 30''x16'' three blade SOLOprop at about 4300-4500 RPM.

Moreover, I do not have a gas pump nor turbulator or velocity stack.

EDIT: Also it does not help if I fill the line with gasoline. It will not start until I have given the ''jump start''.

Hello Finland!

I had the same problem. I solved it by installing a brass tube that pointed directly into the carb(removing choke) When injecting the exact right amount of fuel through this tube,the engine starts on the first flip EVERY time!!

/Straigthleg
Old 06-06-2011, 08:11 AM
  #1275  
jairaksinen
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Default RE: MOKI RADIAL Care and Maintenence

[/quote]

Hello Finland!

I had the same problem. I solved it by installing a brass tube that pointed directly into the carb(removing choke) When injecting the exact right amount of fuel through this tube,the engine starts on the first flip EVERY time!!

/Straigthleg

[/quote]

Well I suppose thats one way to go.

Today I inspected all once again around the engine... And as usual first thing one should look for is a user error. This was not any different. I have servo controlled choke and as funny it is the servo did not fully close the choke plate. it was about 1 mm open which seems to be enough. I could have flipped to the end of days, slow or fast without starting the engine.

When I closed the choke, it took some 5 flips and the line was full of gas(did not start it because I tried it inside).



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