Tom... $20.00 verse $2.00 a gal. for fuel ? My vote goes to a Bi-plane or pattern type. I own four of your 28% lov'm all. I Also have a DV. Chips designs tend to lean towards pattern and he seems to be one of the only ones making 28% pattern planes. I like your 300 spec the best of all your Hare planes. It fits my style of fling best, I think pattern and IMAC are harder to learn than 3D on the same level maybe thats way there is less intrest in pattern and IMAC in the 28% market. Dick Hansen follows your forum. Maybe he would offer some input on a 28% pattern plane. Years past Dick had some of the best pattern planes around. I've just recently got back into the hobby ( jumped in with both feet ) after being gone for 10 years, not sure if I know what I talking about.
Love your product and customer service !!
Greg

I bipe would be great. My votes, in no order, are a Bucker Jungmeister, Weeks Solution or a Pitts Model 12. I've seen to many Ultimates!

Here's part of a post I made last Feb in his forum on a different thread taking about the next offering:

How about another aerobat about the size of the Giles 202. Something for the 3W-75, ZDZ-80 and the coming DA-75 in the 90-96" span. Not much competition with that size verses an increasingly competitive 3.2 market. It's also easier shipping for the importer (Tom) and easier hauling and funding (us!) than the 35% size. There are a few Edges that size, but an Extra would be popular and you won't keep a YAK that size in stock! Of course if it's a bipe, I've always been smitten with a Bucker Jungmeister or a Weeks Solution.....

and now a new 97" Extra Special is close to release.

Speak up, your voices will be heard!

Tom, let me know when your accepting orders on the new E-Special. I saw pictures of the blue and yellow scheme. Any possibility of swapping the positions the blue and yellow and/or changing the blue to red.........

Starting on the plans for that plane now(Double G),for a 50cc DA,ZDZ,BME or a Moki 2.10,should be an interesting project.Will take a few months to complete and i will post pictues as i go on another thread.I am not using a foam wing,all built up construction and i want the finish weight to come in somewhere around 12 to 14 pounds.Everything on this plane will be original,including the wing.The only simalarity to the Giles will be the sweep of the leading edge.I have to decide on the angle of sweep and the wing offset.Lotta homework,hehe,but fun.

Please. A 50cc Pitts model 12 and my money is in the mail.

I own 3 ultimates and I want a 28% ultimate. My favorite is the 120 size Dave Patrick with a Saito 180, it flys awesome! They are the best flying planes I've ever flown. My problem is I do not want to go through the hastle of assembling a biplane, my Patrick fits in my van in one piece. Yeah, you could call me lazy but I'm sure there are many people who after work want to spend their time flying and not setting up and tearing down a plane... or crashing because in your haste forgot that important screw. Yes the Ultimate market is covered by Dave Patrick, Aeroworks, Hanger 9 and Goldberg but show me a easy to transport, fast idiot proof assembaly and I'll show you my credit card number!

Ditto on the S-12. Gorgeous plane. Make it look like the full scale one, and I would buy one in a second. Sure, it probably would be a good bit of work to design it from scratch, but you would sell every one you can make.

The market is saturated with Ultimates. Don't need another, and they're so common at most fields.

Ditto to that. I also have a DP Ultimate with Saito 1.80. I haven't flown it in months and months. It is just to much of a hassle putting it together and taking it apart.. Any bipe needs to incorporate some innovative "at the field" assembly tricks.

In My opinion the specifications and covering scheme sells the plane and the rest is bonus.
If I was in the market for a 50cc Bype I would look at in this order:


weight
wing loading
others opinions from club and rcu
durability
covering scheme
accesibility to radio/tank/etc
portability (2 two peace wings?)

The plane with the best specifications would be in my hanger

OK, here's a tip that my buddy and I just discovered when we had to dissasemble the Pitts, again.
We unhooked the flying wires, and removed the 2 fasteners from the middle cabane. Stood the plane on it's nose, and removed the 2 nylon bolts from the bottom. While one person holds the fuse, the other disconnects the wing servos, rotate the fuse 90 degrees, and slide the wings over the tail feathers, as a complete unit.
Saves removing 8 fasteners, but you need a friend to help. Cut's the time down from 30 to 4 minuets.
Huge difference....
I have recently discussed this with a friend or 2, the guy who comes up with a quick release method on Biplanes will sell a set to every person who owns a bipe, period.

Well forget that Giles airfoil and wing.I did some research here last night and alot of complaints about it tipstalling.Good aerobatics but slow flight wasn't anything to write home to mom about.Might start looking at pattern plane type airfoils and wings.do some experimenting.

Hey that Pitts S12 would be cool Tom,not to many people doing that plane right now.You are right Mike,a quick release setup would sell like HOTCAKES!I would buy at least 6 of them myself.

Does anyone make an S12 right now? I haven't been able to find anyone who offers one...[&:]

Yep,they are out there,here is a 49% S12,little big.hehe

http://www.aircraftinternational.com...9pitts_s12.htm

I know there is a smaller version out there,,i'll do a little digging.....Slade

Here ya go,,,another S12



http://www.bigairplanes.com/

Yeah I found the bigairplanes site. Those are pretty big, anyone know of anything smaller?

Rctom...I think you have something good to work with. One thing i might do is move the wings forward a little. Just looks too far back. I would also make the wings a little deeper. Looks too skinny. Can you take the standard edge wings and just cut the tips off a little. That would make it look a little more proportional. Just an idea and if it works i want half price on the one i am gonna buy...

Smokey

i personally would want a ultimate i would have an ultimate if Wild hare came out with one wich flew 3d with a da50

Here's a thought. Take a Skybolt and increase the span to between 65 and 70 inches. Square the wingtips to assist the roll rate. Increase the depth of the ailerons and bring them into the fuselage sides to increase the high angle of attack effectiveness. Also double bevel them for more range of motion. Reduce the size of the horizontal stab by increasing the size of the elevators and add a double bevel. Slightly increase the height of the vertical stab while increasing the depth of the rudder marginally. Again, add double beveling. Use the method of "I" strut attachment that was used on the Great Planes Skybolt.

Darn, this is sounding good enough that I might drag out an old kit I have in the shed to try out the fuselage changes. I would have to get another set of wings, though. Used them on another Skybolt.

Another great flying bipe is an Ultimate Pitts. Properly set up and designed, it will outfly both the Pitts and the Ultimate. Just ask Sean Tucker and Jim Leroy. You could always bring back the Weeks Solution with a few modifications for 3D. If you can't already tell, I have a love affair with aerobatic biplanes.

Tom

As per usual I enjoy the read on the Wild Hare support site. I've got one of the Giles 202's in construction now and would support the position of Ernie 58 that something similar in size where we could utilise the ZDZ 80 again would be ideal.

From my preliminary read, it would seem that the 97" Extra Special should fill the bill perfectly.

Could you please advise the other dimensions ie wing area etc please.

Cheers

Phil

Tom,

How about an Ultimate where the fusalage can be sparated into two pieces right behind the trailing edges of the wings? Pull two pieces from your van, hook up your front end electronics and insert 4 bolts... tada, your flyin!

Just a thought!

Alan

if that happens and its reliable count me in

That MIGHT be true with full size, but with models, the roll coupling on a Pitts or an Ultimate Pitts is severe enough that it makes flying knife edge all but impossible! I don't know how you could ask Sean Tucker or Jim Leroy to compare an Ultimate to them, since it's pretty unlikely that either of them have flown an Ultimate! There was only ONE Ultimate 10-300 ever built!

The reason you see so many as models is that they fly fantastic especially in our size range. I've flown a LOT of different planes over 30 plus years of flying, and the best flying plane I've ever had was my Dave Patrick Ultimate! I've had lots of Pitts' over the years, but they are anything but precise, and always a handful on the ground!

Jim

Gotta disagree with you, Jim.

The Ultimate Pitts, properly set up, has as little roll coupling as my Extra, and that's not very much. I'm only talking about models in this case, though. Having an Ultimate Pitts, Extra 230, Extra 300, Pitts, and Christen Eagle (Pilot Models), and had (2) Skybolts and an Edge, I have a pretty fair basis for comparisons.

I'm thinking that a few modifications to the flight surfaces to make them more useful for 3D, something that was never even thought of when they were designed, could make for a real interesting biplane. Tom's idea of the "Double Edge" is a good one, I think, but it does have, IMO, a little problem with visuals.

Anyway, since I already have another Ultimate Pitts fuselage framed up, I'm really considering building the other wing set I have here just to see how it would work out with the modifications. The construction would be no big deal, just finding the time.

I am still voting for a YAK!

i like the yak also second choice would be a katanna

I wouldnt mind a Katana either. The GSP/CM Pro/Chief Katana flies very well with a Moki 1.80

Cheers

Phil