Jason,

I'm getting ready to mount the stabilizers. Do you have any feed back on the performance in the rear position?

Chuck

Don't even have my plane yet, but I'm interested in the stab position results as well !

Jim

Chuck,
I'm liking the stabs in the rearward position a bit more than forward. Feels like a slightly longer tail moment. It's been windy so haven't had a chance to really wring it out with some 3D. I can tell that the rear position would be much better for IMAC style flying and the plane feels like it tumbles a bit better when the stab is in the forward locaton. I'm sticking with the rear position for now as it feels a bit better. Time will tell as I get more flights on it... Honestly - it's not a drastic difference between the two, but I'd probably recommend the rearward position as a start and if you want to experiment - try forward later... So far - it hasn't hindered or improved my flying - just a different "feel" to the plane that is subtle.

Jason

Jason,

Thanks, I'm going to start with the rear position.

Chuck

I've got a Venom 45 sitting on the sidelines and was wondering if this would be enough engine for the Sukhoi. According to the specs, this engine puts out 4.8 HP. The DA50 puts out about 5 HP. Any thoughts? I don't plan on any 3D. Basic aerobatics is enough for me.

It should work with somewhat limited vertical. Give it a shot.

If you keep everything else in balance it will do just fine. If you go redundant everything, no, it won't be enough except for "normal" aerobatics. If you keep things light and use good products that are reliable enough to permit singular use, then yes, the engine will do the job and even permit 3D.


Hint; toss any manufacturers H.P. numbers out the window. They were probably developed by using a small prop at very high rpm. A much higher rpm count than our usual propeller sizes will ever permit.

I got my first three flights in today and all I can say is wow I cant wait to fly it again.

In my Wild Hare 50cc Sukette I have a DL50 mounted with a JR 9303 2.4 spread Spektrum radio and Hitec 5955TG all the way around with two 2300 mah A123 batteries and one 1500 mah NiMi ignition battery. AUW of the plane is 17lbs 6 oz.

The DL50 is a perfect match for this airframe. It took only one click of right aileron for the first flight and that was it.

This has to be one of the best flying airplanes I have assembled.

I'm going to ask my wife for the Extra for Christmas.

Jim

Jim,
Congrats on a succssful maiden - glad to hear all went well! I have the 28% Extra that I picked up used that's awaiting x-mas gifts to get her flying. If it flies like the Sukhoi at all - it will be a blast!

Jason

Hello,
I have been following this thread since discovering the Honda Sukhoi in a magazine ad. I've been flying electrics for a while and now I'm preparing to make the jump to a large scale gas plane. To make a long story short I need some guidance in setup of this size of plane. I've got a moderate amount of experience in setting up previous ARFs and such but find myself feeling a bit under educated in the area of large scale airframe set up. Can someone point a young Jedi in the right direction in the matters of ignition and receiver batteries and associated power expanders and regulators? I have found a lot of references to these systems but find myself needing more detail. My objective is to be able to put together an intelligent list of required items and place an order without making repeated orders or runs to the LHS.

Thank you for any assistance.
Obee

Obee:

Do what n57tc did. His plane is exactly the way I would do it. You can get everything from me, even the DL 50.

Your LHS will probably not have anything that you need except maybe the servos and the radio.

The 9303 2.4 is an excellent choice, that's what I am flying now.

TF

Obee,

This was my first 50cc plane and I asked a lot of questions here on RC Universe about the same things you are asking.

As far as batteries go, I have always been hesitante to use li-po's just because I feel I am brain dead when it comes to understanding them and how to charge them correctly. So when I asked about battery setups I got a lot of different ideas and decided to go with Fromeco Li_Io because I could get a charger for it specifically setup for battery challenged dummies that was almost idiot proof.

Then after deciding this and stating it here online, rdb127, Dick Hanson and Josey Wales (all really well respected and knowledgable pilots here on the RCU) really pushed the A123 technology. So I took the time and searched and read everything I could find about the A123 cells and the technology behind them. It sure didn't take long for me to decide they were perfect for what I wanted and needed. The real bonus is the saftey factor for us battery dummies. The only thing I did different from what they said to do was I am running 2 regulators, because I wanted at least four (4) power leads running into my 9 channel receiver.

I wound up buying the A123 Racings starter sets simply because I don't trust my soldering abilities and the charger is idiot proof.

Here is what I am running:

Ignition Battery/smoke: one (1) 1500 mah Ni-Hi
Ignition switch: one (1) Heavy Duty MPI Switch
Engine: DL50 with standoffs and stock muffler and electronic ignition ( http://www.dlusa.net/index.htm )

Radio: JR9303 2.4
Receiver/Servo power: Two (2) 2S1P Hypersonicâ„¢ 2300 6.6V packs ( http://www.a123racing.com/html/starterkits.html )
Recv/Servo switch: one (1) Fromeco wolverine switch ( http://www.fromeco.org/awolverine.htm )
Regulators: two (2) fromeco regulators ( http://www.fromeco.org/aregulators.htm )
Electronic Kill Switch: One (1) http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemId=343295 )
Control surface servos: five (5) Hitec HS-5955TG Servos ( http://www.hitecrcd.com/servos/show?name=HS-5955TG )
Throttle & Choke Servos: two (2) JR DS-821 Servos

All up weight of my SU-26 came out to 17 lbs. 6 oz. (Dry)

I was going to buy my SU-26 from Tom, but fiveoboy01 here on RC universe bought one and needed the money for other projects so I bought his.

It included the Wild Hare Hardware package which I have to say was very complete and full of high quality hardware.

I would have bought everything from Tom had I known he had the DL50 available. Now the only thing I have left to order from Tom besides the 50cc Extra is I am going to go with the Carbon Fiber wing tube.

Hope this helps,

Jim

Regulators on A123 cells? Thats like going backwards.

No it was going for consistant voltage throughout the flights

But thats the beauty of those cells. Very little voltage drop between flights. Buy adding regulators you just upped the failure points and added a financial and electrical burden to the system.
Don't get me wrong, to each his own and I realize you just wanted to stabilize the voltages

But for me thats like buying a wildhare 50cc plane and trying to add a glow engine for power, Its just not necessary

Tom and n57tc,

Thank you for the much needed jump start, I can now continue to research and get a basic knowledge base for my winter project. I'll post when I start.
Thanks again
Obee.

I take it back. Do what n57tc did but don't use the regulators.

TF

I don't know but I did a bunch of question asking before I bought this equipment. So just for your information per my conversation with Hitec support, Hitec doesn't recommend over 6.0 volts in there HS5955 servo or any of their other servo for that matter.

http://www.hitecrcd.com/product_file...IFICATION..pdf

I have burnt up 5 Hitec digital servos running non regulated 5 cell packs. The last two destroyed the airplanes because they locked up the control surface at full throws. After talking to Hitec support, I started using 6.0 volt regulators and I have not lost any servos.

So that is the other reason I am running regulators.

I have had a couple of switches go bad, but never a regulator not to say a regulator won't go out. However I do think the chances of something going down inline is probable so that is why I run a redundant battery system. The added weight is negligable for this size airplane and the advantages far out weigh my flying abilities, my wallet and my free time to repair and or build a new airplane just because I got to cheap to put in a backup power source.

Just my thinking on this matter and my prefernce.

Jim

Well like I said to each his own, I have been assembling giant scale planes using hitec servos for some time know and i have never had a servo problem due to the use of 6 volt packs, and all I ever used was 6 volt packs. This was with digital and none digital servos.

Hitec has also been rating servos for 4.8 to 6.0 volts way before regulators were so popular so I can't see what the proplems would be unless using lipos which put out over 8 volts fully charged.

Yes, I agree to each his own. I just wasn't 100% sure so I opted for the regulators.

With this being my first larger airplane I didn't want to go out and have a problem because if I was to wreck this one my wife might put a tigter knot on the purse strings.

On the next one I will try it without the regulators, but since I paid for them I might as well use I guess.

Jim

I just talked to Hitec customer support about this, here is what they had to say.

Hitec rates their servo for 6 volts, they mean for use with a 6 volt pack which is usually around 7 volts when fully charged. Their reasoning is that the batteries will quickly discharge down to something less than 7 volts. OF course they have no way of knowing this for sure.

This area between 6 and 7 volts is kind of a gray area, since the voltage actually being provided to the servo under load is pretty difficult to ascertain, at least it was until I used my data recorder to track what is happening.

If you look at the graph below you will see that a 6v Nimh pack varies between 5.6 and 6.6 volts under load (Nimh is the first half of the graph, the second half is Liion).

Now, looking at it from Hitec engineer's point of view, they cannot really depend on the voltage depression, I could be running just one 5955 on 2 fully charged 2700 nimh packs (like when doing a knife edge) and the packs would certainly remain at around 6.5 volts.

So even though Hitec says 6 volts, they know we are using more and either did, or should have, designed for 7.

Their official story on using more than 6 volts is that it will work fine and cause no immediate problems but over time the more power you put into a servo the faster it will wear out. This again is kind of a non-answer. The bigger problem happens if they get into a bind or overlaoded, in that case higher voltage will rapidly shorten their lives.

I have been using Hitec servos on 6v packs for many years without any failures that could be attributed to over-voltage. Some guys even run Lipos without regulators and claim they have had no trouble. I feel that the 6.6 volts of an A123 is well within the admittedly inferred design limits of these servos.

There can be a lot of reasons for a servo failure, most of the time it comes down to being in a bind. If the motor can move and do what it's supposed to do failure is not normal even at over-voltage.

I lost two servos a few weeks ago when I was changing from the DX7 to my new 9303 in a plane that had been flying for many flights.

When I changed to the new transmitter I began with no setup, just starting from scratch. I worked on the rudder and elevators first, then the ailerons. All this took me about a half hour to read the manual and learn how it all worked. What I had forgotten was that both the throttle and choke servos were set up on the old transmitter with limits on their travel, and with the default settings of the new transmitter they were sitting there commanded at full throw and binding against the travel limitations.

By the time I got around to setting up the throttle and choke servos they were both stone dead, burned out from being in a bind. Not their fault, not over voltage, just bad planning. If I had set the travel on both to zero while working on the other settings I would have saved myself fifty bucks.

I meant no criticism of n57tc, everyone has hot buttons and things that they believe. I personally believe that regulators cause more problems than they solve and I will continue to recommend that A123 batteries be used without them.

TF

I hear you, I just did'nt want you or anyone else to think there would be a problem with not using regulators. Especially when your on a tight budget like myself, you want that assurance and saftey without having to spend the big bucks for it and for really good performance. This is why I really admires Wild Hare arfs. They give you a really well desighned arf at a very reasonable price without sacrificing performance or safety. And buy doing a little homework you can get into giant scale at around the same cost as a 1/4 scale glow powered aircraft.
I am putting together a Sukhoi at the moment, I will be using stock wildhare hardware, DL 50 with standard muffler, Hitec digitals all around (5645 and 1 5955 for rudder,mini 225s for throttle and choke) 2 5cell Nimh packs on 2 switches for know until I get the A123 cells and charger. Will start posting Pics later this week.

Personally, I've been running all my stuff over 6 volts for years without a problem but I try not to go overboard with it. Yes, I use regulators (fromeco) but I also "over" battery. I'm never seeking the lightest possible weight for my own stuff because I just don't have the ability to see the difference in 4 or 8 ounces of flying weight. I know people that use unregulated 7.4 volt lipolys and most of the time they get away with it, but not always. From 6 to 7 volts there is very little chance of having a problem unless something else is wrong as well. As Tom pointed out so well.

n57tc sounds like he is in the same shoes so to speak as me , first giant scale gasser, and would rather add a bit of weight for piece of mind and not have any " what if " thoughts floating around in his head while flying. I too am going with a similar set-up except I am using 2 lion packs for the receiver. 1500 nimh for ignition, 5955-tg's all around. I was going to use the same throttle/choke servos as him but after talking to a couple of local club members decided to go with analog servos as I was told that digitals that close to the engine was a no-no. It seems that the the digital servos in close proximity to the high vibrations of the engine will cause the servo to constantly fight to center itself causing higher battery drain and possible failure. Any comment on this?

I am going pretty slow on my build as I didn't really comprehend the size of this plane and I am a paraplegic and working on this thing requires alot more time with all the maneuvering I have to do in my wheelchair and positioning the plane into a comfortable work position. One question I have is the position of the fuel tank..... could someone post a picture showing how and where they mounted theirs?

I also messed up one of the landing gear legs. I drilled out the rear holes in the brackets like Tom recommends but the rear bolt on the left leg decided to strip out about 3/4 of the way in... no way to get it out, at least by myself. I am a T-3 paraplegic which means I am paralyzed just under the arms ... no trunk muscles . I have no balance at all and installing the gear was a real pain for me ( my next plane will definitely be one with a single piece gear that has an easier attachment system ) My DL-50 arrived today ( sorry Tom I already ordered from DLUSA when I got your E-Mail ) but not far enough along to mount it yet. I still have one wing to hinge ( really not too happy with the pre drilled hinge holes maybe one or 2 on the whole plane are actually on the centerline ) I actually had to plug and re drill 3 of them they were that far off. the holes look like they were drilled with very dull bit as the wood looks like it was chewed out rather than cut like my fixed holes .

Anyway I will break out the camera tomorrow and take some pictures of the progression so far

Cheers

What size servo arms are you guys using for the control surfaces?