huison2005

Just brought a new ys170 , just run the engine 4 times with rpm no more than 4000 . the last run the prop came loose and broke the spinner .

Funny is after i replace the spinner n try again the next day it just won't start at all !! When i turn the spinner around , there seems like some knocking sound

from the engine 'click' sound .... is that normal ? i try start the engine again but non was succesfull , when i open out the glow plug , the plug is fill with fuel ,

i clean it n put it back n have try to start it serveral times , still cannot get it run !!?? it seems like the engine glow plug flooding all the time(engine is in the plane and inverted)

Should i try turn it over, place on the stand , so the engine is up-right ??

Any suggestion ??

XMANS

HYMMM, Going by my experiance's with new 170's, I have found them to be too rich on the reg, and thats at bieng flush on the reg, and to get to 4000 is a problem.
Every 170 I have run so far finishs up bieng about 1 turn in on the reg.

Not hearing the sounds and having heaps of fuel, I think there is a possability of a bent con rod, I would get some expert advice in your area,
or return it for service.

YS SERVICE AUSTRALIA

dmccormick001

The clicking sound you are hearing may just be the sound of the valves opening/closing. Hard to say without hearing it, but it might be normal. However, if you have a "knocking" sound, that's more serious, and I agree you might need service. If you really do have a sharp knock, not just a click, coming from the engine, I'd send it in for repair.

When the engine ran the 4 times it did, was it smoking a lot? It sounds like it may be set too rich to run correctly. Once a YS engine gets flooded, it can be hard to clear it, and with fuel coming out when you remove the glow plug, yours is certainly flooded. If you decide to try it again (no "knocking" sound), try disconnecting the short fuel line that goes from the regulator to the carburator. Make sure the plane (or engine) is securely held in place, and open the throttle all the way. Connect your glow ignitor and turn the engine over with an electric starter. Be ready, because as the excess fuel is blown out of the cylinder, the engine may suddenly start, and it will rev up immediately and run fast for a second or two. If that clears it out, reconnect your fuel line and try starting it again. If it starts, you'll probably need to begin the process of setting the high speed, mid-range, and idle mixtures, as well as the regulator setting.

If it won't start, then you'll have to begin to troubleshoot everything, like glow plug, glow plug ignitor, etc. If you need more help, tell us what prop you're using, what fuel mixture (%).

David

huison2005

Well ... to make some correction , the sound is 'click' ...click when you turn the engine main shaft !

Ok . for the HS needle 2turn open , regulator have not touch it , original setting , prop APC 17X12n , fuel cool power 25% .

Yes , when the engine run it does have white smoke , ... and then engine won't idle low ........

Any need to retune the reg ?? Or after broke in ??

dmccormick001

OK, the click may just be the noise you sometimes hear from the valves, rocker arms, and push-rods working, so I wouldn't worry too much about it just yet. See if you can get the motor running and adjusted correctly, and the noise may disappear. (Or you just won't hear it over the sound of the engine running.)

Some white smoke is normal from an engine, especially if it's new and you're just now breaking it in. You'll just have to use your judgement/experience to tell if there's too much smoke, which gives you a clue that the HS mixture is too rich.

The fact that the engine won't idle well may be because of either the regulator setting or the idle screw setting or both. Try my suggestions for getting the engine to start again, and then if you can get it to start maybe we can step through the process of getting it adjusted right.

David

mjfrederick

OK, come on now david, this is a DZ again... No idle air bleed. Just a pump and HS needle. Back in the corner for you! hahaha, hope you have a sense of humor, I'm just playin.

I agree with the assessment on the click, all DZ engines have a very distinctive click when turning the shaft by hand. Not an issue (usually). I would recommend replacing your glow plug, they foul quickly when breaking in an engine due to the rich settings used for break-in and the metal particles that break loose during the run-in procedure. Try and get it running again and see what happens. I'm wondering about your plumbing on the engine. Let me run through a proper setup, and you can compare it to yours. Starting with the YS clunk in the tank, the fuel draw line should run forward to the engine and connect to the bottom nipple on the pump housing. There should also be a fuel line running from the top nipple on the pump housing to the nipple on the front side of the carb (between the air intake tube and the crankcase). Then there should be a fuel line running from the nipple on the back of the carb to the check valve on the top of the head. There should then be one more tube running from the nipple on the front of the pump housing to the nipple above the crankshaft in front of the cam housing (Did I use the word nipple enough in that description). Now, for the vent line of the tank, it should run to somewhere outside the fuselage and have either a one-way check valve which allows flow into the tank only, or utilize some sort of "P-trap" type of routing to prevent fuel spillage. That's it! Once you have checked the fuel setup and the glow plug, if you still can't get it to run, you may need to flush out the pump. Every 170 I have seen break in required this to be done after the first couple of runs. The problem goes away after this (for no apparent reason). Hope this helps. Keep us posted!

dmccormick001

Aw, hell, I've got to stop surfin' these forums from work. I have to answer the phone or wait on a customer or somethin' and forget which end is up.

But I didn't say nuthin' about an air bleed. But I did say idle screw, didn't I? Crap, I need a vacation.

David

huison2005

Took out the engine , flush out all the fuel inside the engine ..... funny thing is when i took off the header there is fuel dripping out from the header , i mean alot ....

after hours of working , place back the engine to my plane n strat again , well it START RUNNING !! But when i took off the glow plug it just stop .

The second start , with the glow ignitor on it will idle low ... but when remove the glow ignition it stop again , it seems like too rich for the low end . Alot of white smooke !

The 3 start , move the trottle stick up abit to run'higher idleing' and took off the glow plug ...... run for 6 sec it stop again !!

Do i need to adjust the reg ccw about 1/2 turn to 1 turn to lean the low end for better idle ! ??

Thank you guys , for all the help can get much help around my site , very few pattern flyer here with 2m plane ..... so , really really looking forward to all your reply ,

Thanks for the help !

mjfrederick

1/2 turn is a huge adjustment on the pump, go in 1/8 increments. Also, I didn't see anywhere in there where you tried replacing the glow plug. I'd try that before adjusting the pump. Make sure you have a strong, brand-new OS type F glow plug, or a YS glow plug (they're the same product). If you don't have a spare, or don't want to try that route, leave the glow driver on the engine until it comes up to temperature. There's no way to really know if things are working properly (or if it's just a bad plug) until the engine is at operating temps. Also, don't leave the engine sitting with the ability for fuel to flow into it. By this I mean, if you leave fuel in the tank make sure to cut off fuel flow to the engine while it's not operating or you're not trying to start it. It sounds like it may be as simple as the engine being flooded prior to attempting to start the engine. If the DZ doesn't start quickly, it's very easy to flood it because regardless of whether or not it's running the pump will continue to fill the cylinder. That's why on my planes I prefer to have the fuel feed line come outside the fuse through a couple of elbows before going into the engine. This way I can watch the fuel flow on the first start of the day. If it doesn't start when I expect it to, I know something is wrong. I had gotten so good with the timing on my 140 DZ that I could say "Now" while turning over the engine at the very same time my engine started. Once you get used to this engine it will be the best engine you've ever run, but it can be a real bear to try and get going for the first few runs. If you find that you're flooded, try removing the glow plug and disconnect the fuel line going to the engine, then turn the engine over until fuel stops spurting out the plug hole (to a point, it will never be dry). Put the plug back in, and start over. Again, keep us posted! Also, D-Mac, you can come out the corner now...

huison2005

Thanks for the info , ok than will change a new os'F' plug to tyr again , have 2 for spare ... will try later after get back from work !!

Oh... the reg act as a low end ? adjust the reg will effect the idleling low end ??

dmccormick001

Let me take this one MJ!!!!

Yes. (and on a DZ it's a pump, not a regulator)

David

mjfrederick

Very good, David!

huison2005

change a new plug .... run it again , ok this time started running , maybe due to a bad plug i think .

this time it idle for a while than die again . when the engine run again i trottle up slowly the rpm was not consisten , like some bubling

rpm not consisten ... n than stop again !! What is going on ...... i am really tired with this ys .....

what is the reg setup , when we crew in all the way n open out , how many turns ?? may have to check all the setup again !

mjfrederick

The factory setting for the pump is to set the screw head flush with the housing. Sounds like you may be lean. To richen the pump, it works the opposite of a needle valve, you screw it in to richen. One more thing I just remembered that I have seen on every YS170 is that the throttle barrel tends to stick. This was solved by honing the barrel with some fine grit paper and some lubricant. Note that XMANS pointed out earlier that the ones he has set up end up being about a full turn in on the pump.

XMANS

Hi Guys,

mjfrederick, I'm guessing you didn't pick up my goof in my earlier posting, it gets a bit late for me at times, but what I said about the reg screw bieng about 1 turn in is right,
and this past w/end I have found that some of these 170's after about 100 runs or so require the req to be adjusted back out again as they start to load up
and quit.
The big screw that we adjust is actually regulating the pressure from the crankcase, which in turn controlls the flow of fuel from the pump,
so it is a regulator and the pump is inside the housing, so every one is right on what they call it.

YS Service Aust

mjfrederick

I caught it, didn't feel it was necessary to point it out though, because even in the YS documentation they call it a regulator... go figure. I was just picking on dmccormack because this was the second DZ engine in a row that he had offered help as if it was one of the pressurized systems.

huison2005

after all the hard work 'turn in n out of the reg' to try to get the engine to run , it seems like need to richen the reg by 1/4 to let the engine to run right .......

Now the engine is running , and strating the engine is easy now !! No 'Kicking' now . I have run 3 full tank now '600cc tank' with 1/4 thorttle stick , the engine run with out cut ...

smooth running .... will try half throttle n full thorttle after another 2 full tank n see how the engine run .

Thanks for all the advice . Will follow up the report how the engine run .

mjfrederick

Awesome, glad to hear you got it worked out.

huison2005

now the the engine is running smooth now n so does the ildle . As i check the high end needle it was less than 1 1/2 turns , ........hemm........ is that normal ?

as i try open out 1 1/2 the engine not running smooth n start knocking a little bit again at full thorttle ........ by turn in 4 click , it run fine again .. !! ??

Is that normal ..........?

mjfrederick

The DZ engines normally don't mind running sloppy rich, but I've never tuned a 170 personally. Just inside 1 1/2 turns is probably about right depending on elevation and tempurature. If it's running correctly now, I say stick with it.

huison2005

Now you can see me smile with theis YS , just finished a Advance pattern competition at local event , as there are some foreign

flyer which use YS170 , get some advice from them n help me fine tune my YS .

Now the engine run like the CHAMP now ..... the THAI flyer got no1..... and me got NO2 !!

So , anyway thanks for all the help n advice that been given .

HAPPY with my YS NOW !

tailspins

My Feedback: (7)

I have a 170 that is a powerhouse when it starts. My problem is that it is very hard to start on the first run of the day. After that it is no problem. It seems like it is not getting any fuel. I crank and crank it wide open and no fuel fuel even runs out of the muffler. Then sometime during the cranking secession it hits and starts.
This is my first YS engine and I do not understand what the problem is. ( never had any problems with my OS motors )

Which direction do I adjust the regular again? Turning it clockwise richens it. Is that the way I should go? ( One full turn or what )? It is flush now.

Any help would make my flying more of a pleasure rather than...( hope it starts or how long is it going to take to get this motor to fire )!

Any tricks that I need to know would also be appreciated.

OH... using CP 30% fuel.

John
AMA 1121

mjfrederick

When is the last time you changed the glow plug? Also what kind of glow driver are you using? I'm not inclined to think that this is a problem with the pump setting, because fuel is getting to the engine, and you did not mention any other poor running characteristics other than being hard to start the first start of the day. It sounds like you may be flooded when you first try to start the engine. Do you leave the plane sitting in a condition that would allow fuel to run into the engine for an extended period of time? For instance, if you fill the tank after setting up and then the plane sits for a while, fuel might be slowly running into the engine. We had a good thread on starting procedures for the DZ engines in the pattern forum recently, check it out here: [link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7830399/tm.htm[/link]

dmccormick001

This statement is a little hard to understand. Are you saying it's getting "no fuel", or are you saying "fuel even runs out of the muffler"? If fuel is running out of the muffler while you try to start it, I'd check my glow plug right away. Make sure it's getting bright red. If it looks OK, I'd assume a rich setting and be looking to lean the mixture some.

A full turn is a lot of adjustment. Try 1/4 turn at a time.

Also, I'd advise against trying to start an engine "wide open". If it's adjusted correctly, it will start on just a click or two of throttle. Starting one at full throttle is dangerous, as it might jump forward or get away from whoever or whatever is restraining it, and since you and your hand and arm are right in front of it you're going to be the first thing that stops it. And it's also harder on an engine, especially one that's been idle for any length of time, to start at full throttle, for several reasons, like lubrication, etc. Get it adjusted right and start it on idle and your engines will last much, much longer. Wait for a few seconds after you start it for the temp to come up before you run the throttle up.

David

tailspins

My Feedback: (7)

OK...
When I mentioned "cranking with full throtle I forgot to mention that this was with the glow OFF. I only do this to get fuel to the motor. Now correct me if I am outdated but shouldn't fuel run out of the muffler if it is flooded? It does not run out the muffler at all. The little clear tube that runs from the regulator usually has a bubble of fuel in it and as I crank it does not move at all. I found that If I remove the clear line to the regulator and inject fuel into it and crank the engine, then reattach the clear line and light the plug it will "kick" and start!

As far as fuel sitting in the tank....No I have a central hobbies shut off valve in the line and after each run I close off the fuel so it will not drain into the motor. Yes, the valve works and I have even bypassed it thinking that this might be a problem. I have enen sucked on the fuel line thinking that I might have a tank feed problem but a mouth full if fuel says...NO that's not the problem! hi hi ( 30% tastes nasty)[X(]

The motor is inverted and mounted on a Hyde mount in a QQ yak. When once it starts the idle is around 1400 RPM and just ticks like a sweet thing!

What is the procedure for "flushing out the pump" as was said in an earlier post?

As far as safety I built a safety holding and starting stand. No way this puppy is going to get me!

Any more thoughts or suggesions??

John