THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
06-19-2005, 09:01 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
also.... three retract servos are expensive and lighter that using standard servos. I am currently working on the single servo systen now. Definately some QC issues with the F-16. The gear mounting plates are not properly jigged. This is the second kit I have had... The first I had to return and swap for this one because the Stabilizer bushings were improperly alligned. May need to swap this one for another.
Rich
Rich
06-19-2005, 02:11 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
I have not seen this kit in person , but could you get the air cylinders, (3) about $40 bucks , air support about $35 , all you would then have to do is add the Heavy duty extension arms . This should be lighter and less expensive then three servos .
06-19-2005, 02:15 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
You are looking at about 160-200 dollars for the retracts (air) if you go with Robart or Springair. If I could find them cheaper somewhere else, please dont tell me. I have already spent the money! My luck
06-19-2005, 02:24 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
Like I siad I did not know if this plane came with mechanical gear that use with servos if that is the case you do have the options of just cylinders ,
but If i spent $300 on a plane I would also spend $150 to $200 on gear , its the old saying , dont dig a $25 hole for a $200 tree or your just asking for trouble .
One last thing , if you have not tried CJ gear , you can email bruce the specs and he will make them for this plane , he does this in the WW2 planes all the time . With CJ the oleo are very heavy duty and come totally assembled , no drilling no tiny crappy set screws ect .
but If i spent $300 on a plane I would also spend $150 to $200 on gear , its the old saying , dont dig a $25 hole for a $200 tree or your just asking for trouble .
One last thing , if you have not tried CJ gear , you can email bruce the specs and he will make them for this plane , he does this in the WW2 planes all the time . With CJ the oleo are very heavy duty and come totally assembled , no drilling no tiny crappy set screws ect .
06-19-2005, 09:13 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
I'm going with the B&D pneumatic retracts (about $83 all inclusive)
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LX7110&P=ML
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LX7110&P=ML
06-20-2005, 01:27 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
be sure you have 3/16" wires for the struts.... a 5/32" wire will not support the weight!
Rich
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06-20-2005, 08:25 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
ORIGINAL: msweeten
I built the new F-16 with the custom retracts. At first you think sure I can make this work with one servo. The Problem is that the gear retract forward against the air stream. I put three standard servos in( I thought if one retract servo at 94 oz will do it then two 46 oz servos should be fine). On the ground the gear went up and down with authority. Once in the air the plane picks up speed fast. I hit the retracts and only the nose wheel went up. You need to use two retract servos and a standard servo to make them work. The retracts themselves are pretty good. You do need to work them a little to make the work smoth. take a small file and get rid of any small burs. next I greased the friction points of the retracts. Lastly make sure all of the screws are tight and use lock-tite to make sure they stay that way. If you don't mind the three servos the custom retracts work well. On take off and landing the plane tracks well. I am useing the jet 90L and the upgrade retracts from Cermark and my plane is just at 10lbs. The plane floats in on landing. I set up mine to use flaperons but have not tried them yet. The only bummer is that my club informed me that they have a 100 db sound limit so I can't fly my plane with the standard tuned pipe from Jett
I will have to use a MACs quiet pipe. I don't know how much HP i will lose? I do know it will make my wallet about $160 lighter. I think I will try over proping on the ground and hope it unloads in the air. I know this will not quite make the 100 db limit but should be closer and I will just have to fly on off days not to draw attention to myself. Any way good flying
I built the new F-16 with the custom retracts. At first you think sure I can make this work with one servo. The Problem is that the gear retract forward against the air stream. I put three standard servos in( I thought if one retract servo at 94 oz will do it then two 46 oz servos should be fine). On the ground the gear went up and down with authority. Once in the air the plane picks up speed fast. I hit the retracts and only the nose wheel went up. You need to use two retract servos and a standard servo to make them work. The retracts themselves are pretty good. You do need to work them a little to make the work smoth. take a small file and get rid of any small burs. next I greased the friction points of the retracts. Lastly make sure all of the screws are tight and use lock-tite to make sure they stay that way. If you don't mind the three servos the custom retracts work well. On take off and landing the plane tracks well. I am useing the jet 90L and the upgrade retracts from Cermark and my plane is just at 10lbs. The plane floats in on landing. I set up mine to use flaperons but have not tried them yet. The only bummer is that my club informed me that they have a 100 db sound limit so I can't fly my plane with the standard tuned pipe from Jett
I will have to use a MACs quiet pipe. I don't know how much HP i will lose? I do know it will make my wallet about $160 lighter. I think I will try over proping on the ground and hope it unloads in the air. I know this will not quite make the 100 db limit but should be closer and I will just have to fly on off days not to draw attention to myself. Any way good flyingDid the club check the airplane/engine noise level? What level was measured ? What distance/height from ground/surface? (ie, 3 meters , 1 meter up, on grass ?) Let me know what you have, and I can help.
The Jett 90L with the stock muffler, turning an APC 12x8 prop should check under 100 db on the ground at take-off rpm. A 12x6 will run just at 100db on average. What prop are you using now? If it is the standard 90L, prop the engine to get the rpm down closer to 13,000 rpm, and it will be notibly quieter.... and it will still unload well in the air. The only real advantage of going with a full-pipe is you can set it longer, prop heavier, and run down in the 12K rpm range if desired. Of, if that is the case, simply get the jett 90T (long) muffler and prop to run in the 11 to 12K rpm range with a 12x10 or similar.
Bob
06-20-2005, 07:39 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
I just flown my F-16 today. I used spring air retracts and struts. The plane came out to 9lbs. It has a TSI motor 91 AR. Or should I say it had a TSI. Not very happy with this motor. I will replace it with a jet 90. Cant wait till I have a good motor in it. The third lap around dead stick. I have it balanced at 7.5 in. back from the leading edge. The plane glided in real sweet.
06-20-2005, 10:32 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
On my Jett 90L my club test the sound level with the plane on the cement runway 9 feet out up about waist level. The sound level came in at 105db. I was running a APC 12-6 turnning about 14,000 on the ground. They make use run it at full throttle for the sound check. Once in the air it does not sound very loud at all. For cruising I only use about 1/3 throttle and the 90L only makes as much sound as an OS 46. I just don't run it up on the ground for more than a second or two to clear it out. I ordered the long quite pipe from MAC, which I am sure would work just fine and make the 90L a ***** cat. But I didn't buy the Jett 90 to make it a *****. I am going to cancel my order and just try and keep my plane under the radar from the noise police. I flew my f16 last Sunday. I think I need to refine the throw/exponential and CG. I dialed back the elevator throw based on the new recommended throws. On take off the roll out was long and when she lifted off was some what jerky. On landing I felt that I ran out of elevator and could not flare smothly. I tried one landing that I aborted with a big bounce off the runway only to have almost the same thing happen on the second attempt. I came in fairly hot on both attempts. The second attempt killed the engine so I had to make a crash landing. I had some damage to the landing gear wood supports. The gear itself was not bent or damaged in any way. I am now rebuilding the gear supports from birch ply. should be done in a day.
06-22-2005, 09:12 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
The plane will allow the engine to unload in the air quite a bit. You can use the 12x8. Will pull the ground rpm down and likely get you in that 100db ballpark. No loss of performance.
As long as you have a dozen or so runs on the engine with the 12x6, put a 12x8 on it. Set the needle 400 down from peak. The engine will unload and get up on the muffler after the first turn.
Bob
As long as you have a dozen or so runs on the engine with the 12x6, put a 12x8 on it. Set the needle 400 down from peak. The engine will unload and get up on the muffler after the first turn.
Bob
06-26-2005, 11:42 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
Just wondering what servo you gonna use on the elevators? They operate sooo smooth and are basically counter-balanced when installed, really impressive. I know there will be a little more load on them in flight with the whole stab moving so I wanted to put a HD servo. I tried 2 seperate digital servos and both glitch slightly when operating. Maybe all the metal, not sure. So, I put a carbonite geared heavy duty Hitec servo there. The issue is the torque. How much is enough here? This particular servo has the normal 42oz of torque. Is anyone using a standard servo on the elevator? Thanks for the info.
06-27-2005, 12:50 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
I used a single Hitec HS-5645mg digital ultra torque. The servo is rated at 143.03 oz at 4.8v. I have not had any problems with this servo on my F-16. The only down side is that the metal gears seem to have some play. The full stab eliminates the flutter problem so it works well. 
06-28-2005, 05:02 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
LEAR, can you post the link for the 3/16 struts (only) at Tower? can't get just the strust fron Cermark...
BTW my NIB F-16 is on it's way to papa!
Cheers, Vasek
BTW my NIB F-16 is on it's way to papa!
Cheers, Vasek
06-28-2005, 11:24 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXR938&P=7
There you go. I finished mine tonight and will try it out tomorrow. I added two extra battery packs (for weight only) in the tail and could only get the CG up to about 8". The manual says CG should be 8.5-9". I will try and see. I hate adding weight! It came out really nose heavy having built it by the book . One exception is that I did not put the throttle servo in the tail, but that is not very much weight anyway using an HS85 mini servo. I will post a pic in my gallery of the arrangement of servos, etc. Good Luck.
EDIT: I posted some more pics in my gallery of the servo layout I chose. Pics are worth a thousabd words on this airplane! You have to be pretty creative to avoid 9 extentions!
There you go. I finished mine tonight and will try it out tomorrow. I added two extra battery packs (for weight only) in the tail and could only get the CG up to about 8". The manual says CG should be 8.5-9". I will try and see. I hate adding weight! It came out really nose heavy having built it by the book . One exception is that I did not put the throttle servo in the tail, but that is not very much weight anyway using an HS85 mini servo. I will post a pic in my gallery of the arrangement of servos, etc. Good Luck.
EDIT: I posted some more pics in my gallery of the servo layout I chose. Pics are worth a thousabd words on this airplane! You have to be pretty creative to avoid 9 extentions!
06-29-2005, 07:49 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
Lear, thanx for the link.
i have one question regarding those struts: if i understand the description, it's just straihgt wires.
did you bend them to make a loop at the top (for shock absortion)? if yes how did you do it? could you include a pic pls?
Vasek
i have one question regarding those struts: if i understand the description, it's just straihgt wires.
did you bend them to make a loop at the top (for shock absortion)? if yes how did you do it? could you include a pic pls?
Vasek
06-29-2005, 09:17 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
Hi- I did not make a loop at the top. I just cut 2, 7" pieces and bent them at one end. Just bend a little and see what it looks like and then bend some more,etc.etc. Since the gear are out at an angle, the absorption(sp) comes from the side loading on them. Good Luck
06-29-2005, 07:34 PM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
Well I flew it today for the first time and it went well. It was still a little nose heavy. It balanced out at about 7.5-8". The gear held up nicely even with the faster landing speed. The brakes worked flawlessly (nose wheel turning) with no tendency to tip over onto the nose and wing tip. Speed was impressive, not too fast. I chalk this up to the Master airscrew prop. It was bending and flexing and losing ALOT of efficiency. It will fly like a different airplane tomorrow with an APC prop. Rolls were extremely axial and it was very stable in all aspects of flight. I only flew it once and called it a day. I will stall,loop and experiment more tomorrow. I am VERY satisfied with this airplane! The area that it really shines is in the appearance! It looks sooo cool on short approach with nose up high, touching down on the mains with a slight bounce and holding the nose off. A true rush. It flies like a jet aerodynamically in the sence of loss of energy in the turns if too much elevator is applied. Once leveled off, it gets out of town. With the new 91FX running rich, the smoke trail adds to the overall experience.
BTW, it flies alot like the AKMODELS SU-27, only alot more elevator authority.
BTW, it flies alot like the AKMODELS SU-27, only alot more elevator authority.
06-30-2005, 12:28 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
My CG was by the book at 8.75-9. I think this is tail hevey. I think 8 - 8.25 should be about right. I added weight to to tail. I took about 10 Oz out of the tail and balanced at about 8. I will try another flight as soon as I can get some free time. What CG are you useing?
06-30-2005, 12:39 AM
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RE: THE NEW CERMARK F-16 BUILD IT BETTER, STRONGER, AND FASTER!!!
lier31a,
don't add any more weight. I think 8 back is about right for the first flight. It might be slightly nose heavy but if you use most of the fuel on the flight the CG changes quite a bit. I had my CG at about 8.75. My first flight was short and I landed easy. The next flight I was up for a while putting the F-16 through some check manuvers. I ran low on fuel and came in for a landing and what a difference. The plane was difficult to handel and had to make two attempts, and made a bad one on the second try. Long story, Keep it at 8 then slowly move it back in small amounts untill you like the overall feel.
don't add any more weight. I think 8 back is about right for the first flight. It might be slightly nose heavy but if you use most of the fuel on the flight the CG changes quite a bit. I had my CG at about 8.75. My first flight was short and I landed easy. The next flight I was up for a while putting the F-16 through some check manuvers. I ran low on fuel and came in for a landing and what a difference. The plane was difficult to handel and had to make two attempts, and made a bad one on the second try. Long story, Keep it at 8 then slowly move it back in small amounts untill you like the overall feel.