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Old 08-29-2005, 07:12 PM
  #26
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

i only have one but its a sweetie, and planning on a lot more!!!! now if my other sweetie will give me more money(over 300 flights ande still like new)
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Old 08-29-2005, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

around the time when the Y.S. club post was originally made this was made http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_19...tm.htm#1926685 along with the mds, asp,O.S, Cox and many more!
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Old 08-29-2005, 10:25 PM
  #28
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Funny thing about Saitos- as soon as you buy one, you want more. Not only do they run and sound great, but they are truly sexy. When I started in this hobby, I thought they were pricey compared to the 2-strokes, but once you have one, you will never want another "whiner" (2-stroke). I have a .56, two .72's, a .91, two 1.00's, a 1.20, and a 1.50. I really enjoy them, and they are a real piece of engineering brilliance. Form meets function.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:02 AM
  #29
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I have 3 FA 100 saitos and they are the best engines I own.
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:41 AM
  #30
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FlyingPilgrim
That sound does get you doesn't it... Kind of reminds me of a Harley... Like you I hardly ever touch my 2 strokes anymore...

Have we got enought "Saito club memebers" for a party yet
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:56 AM
  #31
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Ironcross, OK- picture this: 20 planes lined up on the flight line (all w/ Saitos), revving and idling their engines. Like hearing a group of Harleys rumbling through town.
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Old 08-30-2005, 08:12 AM
  #32
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Kind of like a Sturgis SD for Saito's Dang...
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Old 08-30-2005, 10:34 AM
  #33
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Saito FA 82 in a Somethin Extra.... man has this thing got b@lls[sm=punching.gif] Its still breaking in, but I have discovered that it really prefers 15% nitro; I may try the 20/20 stuff.

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Old 08-30-2005, 11:18 AM
  #34
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I've had my first one(82a) for a month now.
It will NOT be my last one.
Mike
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Old 08-30-2005, 03:19 PM
  #35
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Hi Bill, .... tell us about the ones you have torn apart. Do you pick them up used and in need of repair? I don't think you wear your engines out. Didn't you once tell me that you dribble some oil down the valve train ass'y before every time out?

Also, what percentage of the Saito's (or which models) do you guys figure have a problem with the intake manifold 0-ring leaking and or needing safety wire to keep the carb from vibrating and causing air leaks at that o-ring?

Finally, could a pump and straight pipe be the hot ticket for Saitos?

Thanks loads!

Ernie
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Old 08-30-2005, 04:07 PM
  #36
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I have two Saitos, a .72 in a Seagull Decathlon, and a .100 in a Hangar 9 Corsair. They both run fine and make lots of horsepower. After a year and a half of hard use, approx. 50 hours of run time, the .72 ate its' bearings. This following a long cold winter in the garage, the bearings rusted. The metal paste from the disintegrated retainer ring of the rear bearing mixed with oil, ate the camshaft lobes and the lifters as well. Any preventative tips are welcome. I decided to learn how to repair these engines, and ordered the parts from Horizon, here in a few days. The .72 is back to running like new and sure sounds a lot better and makes the original horsepower. Since then I have re bearinged two OS 2-strokes, and an OS .61 4-stroke, and all are running like new. Great fun rebuilding a tiny engine on the work bench without getting dirty or damaged. So engine tinkering is going to be part of the hobby now for me. I have observed all manner of engine gremlins at our field, and they seem to avoid the Saitos more than any other brand, but even they are not imune completly. I'm a Saito fan and would like to join the club.

Regards from old bird.
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Old 08-30-2005, 04:16 PM
  #37
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Ernie:

When you ask about engines I've torn down, I suppose you mean the more interesting things I've found.

I have only seen one Saito I didn't think worth repairing, it was a 270T that had broken one connecting rod. Made such a mess inside the repair parts would have cost almost as much as a new engine. Wasn't all caused by the broken rod though, I think the owner had been running it with very low oil, the crank pins were worn 'way undersized. The resulotant hammering of the rod bearigs led, in my opinion, to the fatigue failoure of the rod. I can only assume the owner ignored the noise the engine had to be making. The crankshaft and crankcase were trash, but both cylinders, the cams and valve gear, and one piston went into the spare parts bin. The other rod was also too badly worn to be used.

The worst one I put back together was an FA-91 with the rear bearing so badly worn the outside of the con rod was hitting the inside of the crankcase. The owner was still flying it, noise and all, until the inlet tappet got jammed by the loose metal inside. It held the intake valve open, no compression, it wouldn't start. This is the same owner who brought me the FA-72 with 0.032" learance on the intake valve mentioned in another thread.

Other than the 270T I havge only seen one broken part in a Saito, that was an FA-80 with a broken valve spring. The owner had fought it for quite a while, he couldn't get it over 4000 rpm. The valve was floating. Replaced the spring set and it was fine.

Most of what I do is the plain old "100 hour" check, new bearings, general inspection and cleaning. Sometimes I get some crash damage to repair but that's usually no more than a bent crank and a broken rocker box.

Other than that 270 twin I've never seen a Saito too bad to fix.

My Saito collectin has been added to by outright purchase, trading, and building an engine up from loose parts.

I am just finishing an FA-120 from a really oddball assortment of parts. It has the latest crankcase with the large rear bearing, a relatively new AAC cylinder, but it has the old style low cam, an air bleed carb, and the earloiest of all the exhausts - the straight pipe with the end squeezed down for a little bit of muffling. All oe piece, but still with a nipple for tank pressure.

Another big modification project was to build up a pair of FA-120 engines in counter rotation for my Cessna Bobcat twin.

Maintenance. Yes, you're right. I oil; the valve gear every time a Saito goes out of the house. This also gives me a chance to do a quick valve check. I don't get out a dial gauge, or even a feeler strip. Just wiggle the rockers. If the lash is off far enough to worry you'll feel it.

As far as wearing a Saito out, given reasonable maintenance I don't think it can be done.

Now if tou've read all the way through this, I thank you for your attentin. Haw.

Bill.
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Old 08-30-2005, 04:41 PM
  #38
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And Saitos DO seem to "fit in" NICELY when scale appearance is needed...

Dear SigMan:

The PIPE Here once more...haven't had a Saito yet that I DIDN'T like!

I've got a new-style .30, a VERY old .45 with the separate cylinder head, and a .56 right now...after a likely left hip replacement operation over this coming winter, a 150 is in the plans for a Dave Platt 1/4th scale Jungmeister, and for what will be a GROWING squadron of WW I aircraft...one of the KEY powerplants will be that HUGE new 220 mill...possibly as many as SIX of them in the coming years!

One thing I LOVE about the Saito singles is that, IF you have to use one of the singles on a multi-cylinder radial powered subject aircraft...Saitos are about the "easiest to disguise" single jug four stroker mills in existence !

Just do a search for the RCU member with the handle of "thrushdust"...Top Gun RC Scale flier DAVE HAYES...as his low wing cropduster, with the 'bare round engine" on its nose, actually HAS a Saito 150 hiding amongst the dummy cylinders!

And even my own 1/6th scale OLD RHINEBECK Fleet Finch benifits fron this nice feature...



...there's a CLOSEUP of my Rhinebeck Fleet's nose attached to really check it all out !

My Fleet hasn't flown in just over twenty years now, and needs SERIOUS tail work to get it ready for flight once more (all new elevator, re-attachment of the "floating" vertical tail, etc.)...and also, since the early 1980s vintage Saito 45 just BARELY flew my seven pound Fleet, all those years ago, the Saito 56 I've got is going in there for its next flying time.

The 45 IS, admittedly, a bit SHORT on cylinder height to look more like the dummy cylinders on my Fleet's nose..but checking the 56 last weekend DOES reveal that its "about 3 mm higher" cylinder height SHOULD help address that little issue. Also, since I made up a custom exhaust elbow for the 45, that even incorporates a engine priming nipple on it, to make engine starting a bit easier on the Fleet, the stuff I've seen on the Internet that indicated the 45's exhaust threading would be indentical to the 56's was "music to my ears"...and, trying my 45's stock cylinder head (it's got one from a 90 twin's cylinder on there now) out with my 56's muffler last weekend CLEARLY showed me it WILL work...so there's ONE less part to make up for the 56's installation in my dear old Fleet...!

The 56 is capable of spinning a 12 x 6 quite easily around 9800 rpm on 10% nitro, 17% all synthetic Red Max 4-stroke fuel, while fininshing up its first "break-in" gallon of fuel on my test stand, and trying out a VERY old Rev-Up 13x6 gave a 9300 RPM figure...and the same "rev figure" held true for a SCALE size 14x4 Zinger wood prop...with the top RPM number slowly increasing the more I've run the engine!

Right now I've got to get my dear old Balsa USA Swizzle Stick 40 (sorry, it DOES have an OS "pre-Surpass" FS-40 on it) ready for flight once more...haven't flown in nearly TWO years now...and if I can still get a Saito FA-50 crankcase from Horizon this autumn, I'll have John Sepe in Florida rebuild my 45 into a new crankcase (the old one has been hacked up on the mounting lugs) to use that VETERAN Saito 45 mill in in my dear old Swizzler...!

Let's hear some MORE great Saito stories...!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE!
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Old 08-30-2005, 04:51 PM
  #39
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Old Bird:

Welcome, sir.

Ernie:

Looking back I see I missed a couple of your questions.

The only ones prone to intake leakage are the mid block engines, the ones with the carb screwed to the back plate and a curved pipe for the intake. The pipe tends to vibrate, causing failure of the o-ring at the cylinder end. The FA-72 seems to be the worst of the lot for doing this. I've found a thin smear of RTV keeps the pipe from vibrating, usually prevents any further problem until the next tear down. Than another smear of RTV...

Saito engines have good fuel draw even without muffler pressure, the pressure just helps and often is not necessary. If you put the tank back on the CG though, a pump is not a bad idea.

I've had mixed results with a straight pipe. Originally I ran a straight pipe on my US 120, but couldn't get a consistent run This was a true straight pipe, with no restrictor at the outlet end. Put a standard exhaust/muffler system on it, no further problem. With a pump it should work fine, the pump will give you the consistent fuel feed. My "New" FA-120 has the restricted straight pipe, I don't anticipate a problem with it.

Bill.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:16 PM
  #40
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Hi, i have a question about the 72s that I have. I have one old one and one new one. The old one has the older style muffler, sounds great. But out of about 75 flights I have had the motor die in a hover 5 times, about 2 minutes into the flight (my sledge isnt looking so good!!!). Is it fuel draw? My newer one is foolproof, the older one I cant get to mess up on the ground, but in the air. The only physical difference is hte muffler. any input??

Thanks
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:25 PM
  #41
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CU:

If you measure the outside diameter of the intake pipes, I think youl'll find the older one is larger. Saito decreased the size to keep the air flow higher, giving more consistent running. They did not alter the cylinder to match the smaller size, that's where our current vibration and intake leaks have come from. At least that's my opinion.

First ran into this with an FA-80. Had a dent in the intake pipe, ordered a new one. When it got here it rattled around loosely in the head. I reused the old one, the new one is in my parts bin.

If you do find your pipes are different, you can order the later replaement.

While the difference in the muffler is there, I don't think it will make any real difference.

Bill.
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Old 08-30-2005, 06:57 PM
  #42
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I have found also that Saito has changed the muffler size to smaller on the .72 ... At least on the curved exaust pipe - straight muffler version... I had to order a replacement muffler and the one they sent me is same size as the .56 muffler (smaller) but with a 12 mm threaded end instead of the 10 mm .56 threads... The OD and ID of the muffler are .56... Haven't gotten it back in a plane yet to see how it does...
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:15 PM
  #43
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Ernie Misner
Finally, could a pump and straight pipe be the hot ticket for Saitos?
Ernie
A friend with a 150 took off the muffler, added a silicone straight pipe, and VP20 oscillating pump and got another 1000 rpm. I did the same with a 100 and only got another 400. But it was much harder to hand prime and start so I put the muffler back on.

Hey Bill, whats a valve gear? Is that something I can see after removing the valve cover?

My 100 is my first 4-stroke and only my 3rd engine. It was very easy to tune and it flip starts by the 3rd try every time. I love it!

Clark
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:48 PM
  #44
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Saito Club! It's good to find people as happy as I am with my 9 Saito's! All in 3D planes all run like tops. My Saito collection 40, 4-72's 2-100's FA120 & 180 I've herd there is a Saito 100 punched out to 125 on the way.

Victor
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Old 08-30-2005, 07:50 PM
  #45
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Clark:

Not A valve gear, but THE valve gear. This includes the tappets, pushrods, and rockers. All the "Gear" that operates the valves.

Bill.
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:17 PM
  #46
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Well said by a fellow GearHead. Hey Bill
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Old 08-30-2005, 09:56 PM
  #47
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IronCross:

The fully machined cylindric mufflers were all pretty much the same, differing by having either a twelve mm thread for the mid blocks or a 14 mm thread for the larger engines. The small block engines, the FA-30 and so forth, had a male threaded end with no intermediate pipe. They did offer a 90 degree adapter to point the muffler to the rear on the FA-30 and similar. These little ones were 10 mm thread. I've never seen one as large as a 56 with a 10 mm thread. Is yours a really old engine?

Bill.

PS: Hey Dave! Thanks for the nice words.wr.
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Old 08-31-2005, 07:57 AM
  #48
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: William Robison

[b]IronCross:

The fully machined cylindric mufflers were all pretty much the same, differing by having either a twelve mm thread for the mid blocks or a 14 mm thread for the larger engines. The small block engines, the FA-30 and so forth, had a male threaded end with no intermediate pipe. They did offer a 90 degree adapter to point the muffler to the rear on the FA-30 and similar. These little ones were 10 mm thread. I've never seen one as large as a 56 with a 10 mm thread. Is yours a really old engine?
Bill
These engines are about three years old.. I purchased them in pairs, 2 .56's and 2 .72's new from Quantum.. With each set I got one engine with the straight exaust manifold and one with the curved manifold.. The .56's and .72's have different size exhaust threads and up till this the .72 had a larger diameter (id and od) muffler... On all the above the exhaust manifold (male) screws into the muffler (female) ... As for the 10 and 12 mm size thing... I know very little about this metric measuring [] I am getting the 10 and 12 mm from the parts description on Horizon's site and the label on the parts.. The .56 says "Muffler, 10mm SAI5074B". For the .72 the parts discription reads "Cast Muffler 12mm SAI6574C ".. Am I looking at something wrong here.. I still have a larger .72 muffler and I can measure the ID -OD of it and the replacement if you like ... Oh and the .56 and .72 exhaust sytems will not interchange.. Definite thread size differance...
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Old 08-31-2005, 11:34 AM
  #49
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: William Robison

CU:

If you measure the outside diameter of the intake pipes, I think youl'll find the older one is larger. Saito decreased the size to keep the air flow higher, giving more consistent running. They did not alter the cylinder to match the smaller size, that's where our current vibration and intake leaks have come from. At least that's my opinion.

First ran into this with an FA-80. Had a dent in the intake pipe, ordered a new one. When it got here it rattled around loosely in the head. I reused the old one, the new one is in my parts bin.

If you do find your pipes are different, you can order the later replaement.

While the difference in the muffler is there, I don't think it will make any real difference.

Bill.
I hope u r right, i do like the sound of the older muffler over the new one. Sounds like a little harley.
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Old 08-31-2005, 01:01 PM
  #50
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[b]IronCross:

The two 56s and 72s were each one early, and one late. Even though you bought all four on the same day. The cylindric mufflers were all replaced by the cast ones on the mid and big block engines.

I have always classed the 10mm exhaust as small block, the 12mm as mid block, and of course the 14mm as the big block. Saito seems to follow this also, but I was mistaken about the 56. I thought it also had the 12mm exhaust. Memory fault.

Coveredup:

Back pressure differences will affect a 4s engine, but the effect is mostly in the lower/higher muffler pressure. Higher back pressure=higher fuel pressure=easier consistent engine run.

All:

Here's a picture of five totally different exhausts, all supplied at one time or another from the factory with Saito engines. And there are more not included. All from the factory.

Bill.
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