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Let's gasify a Vanquish

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Old 10-07-2012, 07:10 PM
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Default Let's gasify a Vanquish

I'll post some of the work required in converting an Electric Vanquish to gasoline power. This will deal only with the engine and pipe set-up and not the whole build. Archie did a fine job with that so no need to revisit it

If I like the way thisversion flies I just might take all the covering off it and silkspan and paint it. Great thing about this model is that the sheeting is whole. Only the control surfaces have holes which are easily covered with polyspan tissue.

All up weight looks like around 10 1/2 lbs RTF. A bunch of places weight may be shaved off but would require new molds for stuff. Haven't decided IF I'll persue that route.

The engine is a PTE36 rear exhaust. The soft mount is a custom type I build, based on the Hyde/Pastomount. The nose ring will be installed in the stock cowl, except the cowling needs reinforcement and better attachment to the fuse than the E version.

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Old 10-08-2012, 02:08 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Sweet!
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:30 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello Matt

Great !
you writes
"I just might take all the covering off it and silkspan and paint it. "
Why ?
Claude
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Old 10-08-2012, 04:34 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Can't wait to see how you put a nose ring in that light cowl, Matt!! But I know you will solve the problem.

Eagerly awaiting your reports,

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Old 10-08-2012, 06:19 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Thought that would catch your attention wildwillie
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Claude,I "hate" plastic film covered Pattern Planes. Plastic film is for trainers in my opinion. BUT, it all depends on whether I want to put in the time. One good thing, the film on the Vanquish is easy to peel off
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:37 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: cmoulder

Can't wait to see how you put a nose ring in that light cowl, Matt!! But I know you will solve the problem.

Eagerly awaiting your reports,

I'll post some photos tonight on how I've captured the cowl. Much more secure than the original. Both the cowl and canopy are heavier than I want or is needed. But I probably won't build new molds for those parts unless the plane comes out too heavy.

The biggest issue is the prop drive hub....it is larger than the crankcase so the nose ring will be designed as a two piece unit.....
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

That model could look great with a lot of different paint jobs.
Chris...
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MTK

I'll post some of the work required in converting an Electric Vanquish to gasoline power. This will deal only with the engine and pipe set-up and not the whole build. Archie did a fine job with that so no need to revisit it

If I like the way thisversion flies I just might take all the covering off it and silkspan and paint it. Great thing about this model is that the sheeting is whole. Only the control surfaces have holes which are easily covered with polyspan tissue.

All up weight looks like around 10 1/2 lbs RTF. A bunch of places weight may be shaved off but would require new molds for stuff. Haven't decided IF I'll persue that route.

The engine is a PTE36 rear exhaust. The soft mount is a custom type I build, based on the Hyde/Pastomount. The nose ring will be installed in the stock cowl, except the cowling needs reinforcement and better attachment to the fuse than the E version.

Lets do a show and tell. Stand offs are 2 inches long. Total length to the back of mount is 6 11/16"

Firewall is 1/4" X grained balsa carbon sandwich. This is trulyelementary to make is you have a Food Saver vacuum packer or similar set-up. I have one for food and one for toy airplane stuff.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Some more; The front end of the VQ has lots of room to install the engine ready placed on its soft mount from thetop. Made fitting and locating simple
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:43 PM
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More; Once happy with the location, the tack glued FW is knocked off and set up withhard points and blind nuts. Also, the center area is removed shaving some more weight. Basically, the front firewall bulkheadsection I removed from the nose weighed 60 grams. The new FW and reinforcements weighed 30 grams....I'll take it

Edit I made a pipe tunnel yesterday...weighs35 grams. Removing the front end and replacing for gasoline, including the pipe tunnel, was essentially a wash. I'll post some pics as I conclude the sections. The tunnel was straight forward glass tube with appropriately located reinforcements to maintain shape and take the pipe mount

Canopy clears nicely
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:47 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Cowl needs better reinforcement and mounting. The way the VQ is done, it makes this task simple. The cowl will eventually house a nose ring so a better mount than stock E-type is required

In the second photo you can see where the fuse sides were covered over with some 1/32" A/C ply. The stock sides are 1/16" laser cut ply, heavily cut to save weight. It works on the electric but I didn't want to take a chance on this conversion. It adds 3 grams but adds tremendous strength to the original ply

It's a good idea to reinforce the fuse top by adding a cross top of lite ply, boxing the front end in. Even soft mounted, engines shake of course so judicious use of reinforcement is a must for long fuse life
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hi Matt...
What happened to the Syssa?
The last I heard was that Todd was going to develop the engine a bit more for more torque or something like that.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:52 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Dave,

Todd Syssa I believe made a good business decision not to pursue a Pattern engine. His current engine is a great little sport engine that's selling well to sport fliers. I tried to apply it to Pattern needs but it juuuust wasn't quite there.....

Some of the current offerings in this size range are excellent for Pattern apps. Good ability to turn large props and good torqueat mid throttle. The OS33GT is a great example of that. Although I'd love to see OS come out with a rear exhaust 33. It would be perfect for anything we currently fly
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:37 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello Matt

Which exhaust system will you install ?
I'm looking for a rear exhaust header for this PTE36R .
Claude
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: papaone

Hello Matt

Which exhaust system will you install ?
I'm looking for a rear exhaust header for this PTE36R .
Claude
Claude,

The OS140RX header fits nicely, except the mounting holes need slight modification. They need to be opened for M5 mounting bolts and moved out about 1mm on each side.

EDIT: The Macs header for the OS140RX ,not the 2 piece one OS makes..... Actually Macs makes 3 headers for 30-40 cc rear exhaust gas engines as shown on their website. It may be that one of them would be a drop in choice. I'll measure the bolt CL dimensions of the exhaust flange and see if one of them will work

I'm planning to use a Mintor pipe on mine. I will start with an XOAR 19x10 laminated prop for break in and move up from there if the engine can tolerate it.... I'll post some photos when I have progressed enough with the pipe tunnel to warrant it
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:30 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Wow! O.S. 140RX header for $75.99? I'm aware that as a sport flier I may be a little out of place looking for bargains in a pattern forum but I was hoping that a piece of bent tubing with a flange on one end would not be very expensive.
Does anyone know if the $35.00 JMB Header for the ZDZ 40RE will match up with the PTE36R exhaust?
http://www.troybuiltmodels.com/items...HEADER-25.html

It looks like no one is willing to make headers specifically for the new rear exhaust gas engines that have hit the market.
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Old 10-12-2012, 12:35 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

I really love what you do MTK... apart from leading the gasser charge, you're really cutting the edge here.
Most of us have a problem sticking a gass engine into a molded CF F3A plane and here you are adding one to a balsa stick ePlane... with a dodgy cowl!
Great stuff.



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Old 10-12-2012, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

looks good!
can't wait to see some pics of the pipe tunnel framed up!

tony
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: David Bathe

I really love what you do MTK... apart from leading the gasser charge, you're really cutting the edge here.
Most of us have a problem sticking a gass engine into a molded CF F3A plane and here you are adding one to a balsa stick ePlane... with a dodgy cowl!
Great stuff.
Thank you David!

Some folks had argued against the move last year, however when I looked at Archie Stafford's electric Vanquisha coupleyears agoI saw a strong balsa and plyframe that was very similar to my EF Extra 78". ThatExtra was my test bed for a DLE55 on pipe so I felt the VQ frame was strong enough for a much less powerful engine such as a 30cc class. Besides, I've been building airplanes for 44 years...I think my judgement and engineering are sound

Unless they did something goofy with the wing build, I seriously doubt I'll have much problem.

Current gas engines in this size range have turned out to be much better than I had thought. Manufacturers have figured out what makes these smaller gassies powerful and forgiving at the same time. The OS33GT is a prime example

Soft mounting is a must of course to get vibes and sound under control. If anyone wants to tackle gasification, I strongly suggest that one should learn how to build the soft mount first. The problem is that no two engines have the same mounting footprint; every mount is custom made to fit each engine. That's not a pita, for me it's part of the fun. But having to fork over a couple hundred dollars to Hyde foreach custom mount I've made would have taken the fun out of it
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: vatechguy3

looks good!
can't wait to see some pics of the pipe tunnel framed up!

tony
Okie dokie,,, I used one and half sheets of 1/32 medium balsa. The stringers are 3/32 spruce. I'll be glassing and painting the tunnel tomorrow.

The battery floor was carved up as shown. An 8-10 oz tank doesn't need all that structure to stay put. Yes an 8 oz tank for this size engine flies the crate for about 13 minutes, almost long enough for 2 Masters schedules

The aluminum pipe is from Mintor. It's compact and light at less than 5 ozs. The ESComposites works also, but it's longer than the Mintor and the tunnel would have needed more surgery. Mintor pipe is about half the price of the ESC pipe so, IF YOUCAN FIND ONE, scarf it up. OR let me know because I want a few more of them
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:23 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

And the pipe mount treatment. I use one Lord mount to hold the pipe.

The balsa was undercut to recess most of the Lord into the fuse. Nothing fancy is needed here. A piece of 3/32" A/C ply inside the fuse with drilled and tapped mounting hole works fine and has stood the test of many a flight. A blind nut is not necessary. Try it!
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:11 PM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish

Hello Matt

How did you install the balsa tunnel ?
Is it possible to install this composite tube shown in picture (diameter 50 mm, lenght 900 mm) ?
Claude
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Old 10-13-2012, 05:34 AM
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Default RE: Let's gasify a Vanquish


Quote:
ORIGINAL: papaone

Hello Matt

How did you install the balsa tunnel ?
Is it possible to install this composite tube shown in picture (diameter 50 mm, lenght 900 mm) ?
Claude
Claude,

I opened the belly and built the tunnel in place. The tunnel is rectangular. I used CA for the gluing.

I also built a cylindrical glass tube first.But once I tried putting it in and played with the pipe and header a little to figure out how it would work,it occurred to me that pipe installation to the header might be a problem. So I decided to scrub the glass for the balsa.

The way I have it now I can assemble the pipe and header first, off the plane, and install itfully assembled
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Old 10-13-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: MTK
EDIT: The Macs header for the OS140RX ,not the 2 piece one OS makes..... Actually Macs makes 3 headers for 30-40 cc rear exhaust gas engines as shown on their website. It may be that one of them would be a drop in choice. ...
Good tip. Thanks.
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