The APC 15 x 4W is a great prop for a .91 but the 1.00 can handle quite a bit more prop than a .91. APC's 15 x 6 is a great prop for the 1.00 IMO, check my responses above. I also like it on my OS .91, seems to have great throttle response. Rpm's are around 9500 on my 100 when using the 15 x 6. A 16 x 4W tachs out about 9000 but the throttle response is slower.

Hi Shogun,

I am now working on the engine ( Saito 91 GK) Did you add any right thrust to the firewall? I can remember seeing some posts about it. Just telling some friends this is my winter plane and they are freaking out

Hye guys im still confused because i have been flying 4 about 2 years and have gotten realy good and can torque roll my stock something extra. But now i can decide what to get for my next plane. i did want a aeroworks .90 size edge but no one has told me how it flys ect. but i also wonderhow the UCD compares to the edge. i like to toque roll and hover and do harriers but still want to do spins ect. Pleade give me an idea of what would be the right tool for my job.

Striker,
The UCD that I have, like MANY of them, had NO right thrust built into the firewall, a simple check with a carpenters square will show the firewall to be at 90 degrees to the fuse sides.

After flying mine I determined that the plane needs about 3 degrees of right thrust to fly strait uplines. I wound up putting 3 washers under the left side mount to space it out from the firewall. Doing this really shifts the spinner to the right and it doesn't look to good but I will take a better flying plane over a better looking one any day. I had to take some out of the nose ring of the cown to clear the engine thrust washer to be able to put my cowl back on, when it's all done I think my spinner is offset about 1/4 - 3/8" from the cowl.

The best thing to do is to fly it and then adjust to your taste. Fly it with the cowl off and pull up vertical, go to full throttle and observe. If it pulls left start shimming the mount. Your definately going to want to do this before attempting to hover this plane, it's a handfull if you don't.

wotswot, I recently went from a 16 x 4 to a 15 x 4 for faster spool up. It's powered by an O.S. 91 four stroke, stock exhaust, and recently on 25% pro pattern fuel. As it turns out, the 15 x 4 is signifacantly louder. With the first prop several people commented on how quiet it was. Of course I was floating around at part throttle alot. Even at full throttle it wasn't very loud. Seems the extra 700-800 rpms really makes a difference.

Wot, Right now the throttle response is good with quick spool up. It was quicker with wood but too much blade deflection. I drop it back to about 9000 but am going back to heli fuel and that will add many RPM's. Joe

Shogun, Forget "many", there arn't "any" with right thrust built in. Its not in the design and "right thrust angle is not required" according to the techs at GP. They have built an offset into the vertical stab to compensate for the left pull caused by thrust. It totals 1/16" in the 4.5" length of the stab. Earlier on in this thread someone graciously figured out the exact angle from my dimensions but I forget the degree and who knows where its buried in this thread. Standing at the tail looking forward on the right from the fuse side in to the vert. stab. its 11/32" and on the left side its 9/32". Perhaps their research was with a less powerfull engine than the Saito 100. If thats the case than it could use more angle. Also I measured a couple tail sections and the measurements are not consistant. As far as the angle of the engine some of us have elongated the mount holes on the mount with a dremell and moved the mount over further to the side trying to keep the spinner in the center. You are correct, spend some time setting it up or forget hovering. Joe

Joe,
You right! But there were more than a few that hit the LHS shelves that had "left" thrust built into them! Mine was like this, perhaps a 1/16th of an inch of so, either way you will need to addresas the issue if you want to 3D with this airplane.

The tail on mine is dead strait when checked with a Robart incidence meter so I think the chinese had a role to play in that situation as well.

Like I said a few posts back, I used an OS .91 four stroke in mine all last summer and didn't get the Saito 1.00 in it till late September so I know how it flys with that engine. The .91 is plently of engine for the plane, until it gets over 100 degrees here in NE, then it simply won't pull out of a hover. The 1.00 on the other hand is PERFECT for this airplane and I like it much better than the .91. The extra thrust the 1.00 provides really helps to "shove" the UCD around during hovering and waterfalls tightened right up with the extra air flowing over the tail, helped everything out really.

Hi Shogun,

I did not like the idea of using washers to add the 5 degrees, as they tend to sink into the firewall over time. I used a strip of 1/16 aluminum plate which I shaped to match the contour of the engine mount. I have to check it with my incidence meter to see how much right thrust it actually gave me. It should be 4-5 degrees. I think I did check my fin for an offset, but don't think it had any. I don't think that was a great idea anyway as the airplane will yaw at various airspeeds depending on what speed you would have trimmed it at. I had this same issue with my 26% H9 Edge 540 but this was not a problem as I had to build a motor box for my ZDZ 50 gas engine. It flew perfectly with 4 degrees right thrust, though the engine was swinging a 22X10 prop. I am now building a DP Edge 540 T and will be doing the new Air Wild 37% Edge 540T for Summer and will check to see what their right thrusts are. They have to have quite a bit as they are designed for gassers.
Appreciate you help.

Try Ernst thrust plates. They come in 1, 2 and 3 deg plates. Available from TH or Quantum Hobbies.

Gents

I forgot where the thread is where someone talks about setting up the ucando for proper harrier. I am not familair with mixing and this is my first forray into it. Am I wrong to call it the Spolieron? If not what is it called and hwta is the general setup.

Anyone have any other tips/tricks for mixing on this bird? id appreciate it.

regards


matt

Matt, Did you forget the 3D section from Horizon Hobby's site has setups for maneuvers? Joe

DOH!!

good call Joe, ill look it up!!

Cummn thru, bmgbeetle, I've fitted the foam wing tape and the exhaust silicon, plus now fitted m5 rubber rawlnuts to the engine mount, I've used them before with good results but not on a 100 4c, don't see a problem though, also have rung around my clubmates to check out what 15" props they all have so I can try many different sizes/types in the noise test before I spend any more money and make sure I get the right prop this time! I might have 2 15x4w apc up on ebay soon!
Have also lowered the tank, the 100 ran fine on the ground but i was concerned that with the centreline of the tank almost 1 3/8" above the main needle I might get a problem in the air, I don't want anymore trouble with this model else I might give up on it, I removed the thin ply crossbrace just above the exhaust tunnel from the former between bulkhead and wing dowel plate, this allows the tank to sit much lower although a little further back with the rear face just forward of the dowel plate, the centreline is now level with the main needle and the tank is only about an 1 1/2" further back so the 100 should be able to suck fine as the fuel line is no longer than it was before.
How much expo is everyone using? I've set normal rates between GP low and high and my high rates at GP 3d, with 50% expo on both, is this a good start point?
Also mixed flaperon and spoileron both switchable.
Cheers All

use a apc 13/4w its made for acro flying

To all you hardcore U Can Do'rs (you know who you are). I know that this has been beaten to death but hope your willingness to answer is greater than my desire to scan thousands of posts on UCD's. On my present build I am taking the plung and putting my tank on the CG. I have no experience with a regulator or pump. Whats what? Weight comparisons between the two, performance and in general, whats the difference in the way they function and how are they hooked up. Thanks in advance for any and all input. Joe

I am still getting mine together and am in the same boat. I am contemplating using a pump or a reg like from iron bay. I have read many responses but non are clear nor concise as to the install and the benefits besides the obvious.

matt

Anyone tried a GMS 76 on a UCD 46. How did it work? What prop? Seems like a good way into 3d on the cheap. Would it need a regulator or pump? curious on everyones thoughts.

I have my tank on the CG with a Cline regulator (Iron Bay regulator is the same) and a Saito 100. I chose the regulator because after having dealt with pumps in the past, the Cline was the easiest to set up, nothing to adjust, no flooding, no loading up, no unintentional lean runs, and no midrange issues. The concept is simpler, just a diaphragm that inhibits fuel unless the carb asks for it, and a check valve on the muffler pressure tap to pump up the fuel tank to provide positive pressure to the diaphragm. The only down side to it was placement of the regulator inside the cowl within an inch of the carb, but even that wasnt too bad... although all the fuel lines look a little busy

Pumps work too, I'm sure the perry folks will pipe up soon, there are some bennies to pumps - this is just my humble opinion.

Roger

Pumps do just that, PUMP fuel mechanically to the carb. Regulators use a check valve in the muffler pressure line to hold the pressure created by the muffler in the tank. The pressure forces the fuel up to the carb where the regulator meters out only what the engine demands.

I put off getting my Cline(s) for quite a while and finally gave in, now there is NO looking back. This thing is so simple and it weighs virtually nothing, just put it on and set the needles and fly. As simple as that and you get a VERY smooth, LOW idle and great transition and top end.

Just get the regulator and be done with it.....I know it's not cheap but the headaches it saves you make it worth every penny.

To use a pump with a four stroke you need to go with the VP-20 ocsillating pump that requires you to make a mounting plate so you can affix it to the back of the engine. Pumps can fail, I had a VP-30 that went south on me after about a month and I gave the Cline a try on my OS 1.60 and was so shocked at the difference in performance and ease of tuning that I didn't even bother getting a replacement for the Perry, just bought another Cline.

Yes I like my Clines THAT much...nuff said

The hardest part was, of course, mounting the tank in the fuse but even that wasn't all that bad. With a little sanding the stock tank fits between the formers very easily. Once you fly with your tank on the CG it's a no brainer, and trust me you'll notice it from the moment you take off. CG changes are INSTANTLY noticeable too. If I add a .5 oz. weight to the tail of my UCD it flies completely differently now. With the tank in the nose it took a while to notice the difference as the fuel burned off and the nose got lighter.

All of this sounds like a lot of trouble but it's really worth the effort.

Scott, thanks for the info. You truly are "Seii Tai Shogun", one to make Tokugawa Ieyasu proud. Could I impose one more time and ask who supplies Cline regulators? Arigatou, Joe

Jim Cline and Associates http://www.billsroom.com/pcfs/

Thanks Raj, I knew I'd here from you sooner or later. Soon as I get my radio gear back from it's check up I'll be able to get this finished. Thanks again, Joe

Hey Joe,
Give Jim Cline a call, he's really helpfull and a nice guy to talk to on the phone. I really had a jard time ponying up the bucks foir that little part but seeing it in action made me forget all about the cost.

The Cline is pretty easy to use but take a modification of one's thinking once you decide to put one on your engine and actually use it. Basically the low end needle is set like always but the high end needle is pretty much not even needed once the regulator is on the plane. The reason I say this is that most people that are new to these can't understand why their high end adjustment doesn't seem to "adjust" after putting the regulator on. Screwing the needle out seems to have no effect as the engine doesn't get blubbery rich like it did without the regulator, and this is as it should be! What you are seeing at that point is the regulator doing it's job, metering only what the engine demands, as it demands it. You can still lean the needle out but attempting to get the customary 200-300 rpm rich setting can be impossible on some set ups that I have tuned. My rule of thumb on thse is to set the low end and then go full throttle and lean the top end, then back off till it's as rich as it will go and then a little more, then fly.

It really is pretty simple, once we stop MAKING it hard!

Thanks for the kind words

*taking a bow*

Well i wouldn't exactly say that, but scott is right about the needle acting a little different than what you are used to with a non-regulated needle. My experiences with the cline have all been great. I would refer to the high end needle changes as "deadened". What I mean is when you get up near max rpm you just can't back it off 2 clicks and expect it to lower RPM 200-300rpms.