E-mailed Lanier for a price on the canopy that was busted in kit,I could not beleave my eyes $49.95 plus $11.88 shipping.I don't know about you guys but I have bought my last Lanier,Goldberg product.

pcsol,

Congratulations on the maiden. Temps in the upper 20's that's like nearly 3 degrees below zero. It has never been that cold in the city in which I live! This Saturday, flying day for me, the forecast is 87 with clear blue skies, we are so lucky here in Australia.

Did you end up getting an accurate weight of your Yak when completed. I see that at one time you reported 18lb and 12 ounces, was that still weight still correct before the maiden?

I look forward to hearing more flight news.

Cheers

Lang

Lang,
My ready to fly weight minus fuel is 19 pounds 4-5 ounces . That’s with the lightening techniques posted here ,3W70US, carbon fiber spar, Life like pilot and smoke.
I think this plane would be very happy at anything under 21 pound or so. It really does fly like a bigger plane, almost as if it has more square inches than it does. One thing that stood out was that I really had to fight to keep it from climbing out of knife edge at higher throttle with the 70. That rudder is POWERFUL and needs lots of expo.
I cant wait for the opportunity (and weather) to really ring it out.

I am in the same situation here. My cowl was busted and the first customer support person I talked too at Tower asked me to only send back the cowl. That was a mistake. It took Tower over a week to forward the cowl to Lanier, and now they tell me is up to Lanier to send me a new cowl. You know how that goes; Lanier says they don't have any idea as to when they will have a replacement cowl. So I definitely agree with you, this is the last Lanier kit I buy. Lanier has the worst customer support I have experience so far in the RC business.

And Tower Hobbies is not being very fair either. If you tell them the plane was damaged by the carrier (UPS) they will ask you to return the whole kit back to them, and they send you another one from their stock. If you tell them the damage was due to poor packaging from Lanier, they ask you to deal directly with Lanier. Once you send back any part of the kit to Lanier, Tower refuses to accept the kit back because "is incomplete". A real life catch 22.

It sure is a rip off to spend almost $500 and now have to wait to God knows when. I am giving Tower one more week to make it up to me. I only live some 3 hours away from Champaign IL., and I have relatives up there. I will personally deliver my "incomplete" kit to Tower, and I promise you I will not leave their premises until I get a full refund on my money. This whole affair is completely unacceptable and it shows very poor customer support, both from Lanier and Tower Hobbies.
The least Tower could do is to open up one of their kit from stock and replace the necessary parts for the customer.

I agree with you 100%.I think the problem here is to many people are willing to accept this behavior from retailers and mfg just to keep from having to build a kit to have a new plane.I for one am going back to kits.
After a while Lanier may change their atitude if people stop buying their products.
I bought the new Goldberg Yak and had the same problem,I should have known better,I do now!!!

This isn't good to hear... I would have thought they would have set aside a dozen kits for parts....

If youpaid via credit card, you have all the leverage you need.... simply cll yor credit card company explain the situation and you'll get your money or parts back pronto... (Well maybe not pronto, but put in a dispute and you will get results!

I I am with you on this issue. I am definitely going back to building kits. Most ARFs lack the quality for the money you are paying, the only thing you gain is the convenience of a quick build. In my opinion is not worth the aggravation of dealing with some of these mediocre companies.

Don't get my wrong, there are some retailer/manufacturers out there that are not only honest but very customer oriented, and they provide excellent customer support. I am just about to finish putting together a TOC (Aviation Models) Yak 54 for a friend of mine. This kit arrived unblemished, and the vendor (Chief Aircraft) has been very responsive to our calls for tech support. I have been following the RCU thread on the AeroTech 87" Yak 54 build. The folks that bought these kits are extremely pleased with the support they have been receiving from AeroTech. In the past I have never any problems dealing with Aero-Works, or Carden. In the future I will stick with these companies. After all AeroTech, Aero-Works, and Carden are the only retailer/manufacturers with customer support forums in RCU.

For the convenience of having a plane ready for next season, as soon as I get this problem resolved with Tower Hobbies I am placing myself on the waiting list for the Aero-Works QB Yak. Tower Hobbies and Lanier are finished as far as I am concerned.

Hey Maudib,

I don't have any idea as to what is your position being the review writer for this product. But on all honesty these issues should be brought up to the consumer’s attention. If I were in your place I would make it very clear this kit lacks proper packaging, poor quality control, and Lanier is providing extremely poor customer support.

It seems that everyone that has had a problem had talked to a lady thins week. Whenever i have called, i have gotten great response from Chris. He may be at the WRAM show this week and has not been able to take care of things. I would suggest that that you bring up the situation to him and possiblly have him read pages 13 and 14 of this forum. It may get them to realize something. I always try to give manufacturers the benifit of the doubt. It's like the waitress bringing you the wrong order, most of the time its the cook's fault and if you are reasonable with the waitress she will make it right for you, because all in all, if they have been in business for this long, then they must be doing something right.

BTW, anyone hear from Graphtech? I left a message and emailed about the Gear for this thing and have heard nothing back?

In some ways I wish they would sell kit version of these very planes... it would be nice to build fromt he get go and modify to my hearts desire.

Unfortunately you don't have many options at all when it comes to kits.

I've heard horror stories too on those you listed... especially AW... though it look like they have changed a few things since getting into the ARF market.

It does boil down to the "you get what you pay for" ideology. People don't like to pay $650+ for a 50cc aircraft, but as in the case of EF... when we got some slightly twisted fuses, 75 people were able to get their fuses replaced... no sending in the old one... Same with canopies/gear/wings from QQ...

Should Lanier offer the same service... well we'd like to think they all should. But when you pay top dollar for a plane tht offers the manufacturer a good profit, he can afford to send you immediate replacements. When you get a "value" then it's likely that something, somewhere will suffer.


Imagine if Lanier offered a 48 hour parts shipping option. You paid $100 so that if a part arrived bad or failed... then you called it in, and within 48 hours the part was shipped no q's asked. How many would have purchased the "extra insurance"?

But then a company like EF or QQ charges top dollar for their products but send out replacements without question, and without requiring the items back.

GP and Horizon are pretty darn good at replacing items... when a fella was worried about the gear on his Ultimate 1.60 GP sent him a replacement BEFORE HE EVEN GOT HIS PLANE!

Well, I digress... I wish Lanier was doing better in this arena... but again... you got a deal... for those that got theirs unscathed, it was a great deal... for the few that got busted items... well it wasn't such a good deal.

If you paid via VISA/MC (and I wouldn't pay any other way) you have an avenue for recompense... use it and don't feel bad about it.

I don't particularly like to play the odds myself.

Maudib,
What's your finished weight looking like?

I've been on him pretty heavy... sent another e-mail this A.M.

He's a nice guy but has SOOOOO many people wanting things that he often gets WAY behind.

It's not the best way to run a business, but it's the only way he can. It's either this way or no way...

I'll let ya know when I hear something...

J. David

Dunno... not even really started anything yet... just the few lightening mods I shared.

I've been sick AND mired in a website project and haven't started the building. Perhaps this weekend.

I did get the standoffs from [link=http://www.forgues-research.com]Forgues Research [/link] and will probably get that on for sure.

I suppose I'll just bolt the stock gear on for now to keep the belly off the work surface.

I'm still hopeful however for 17.5 lbs or less.

If I were to perform a single servo mod and remove the belly balsa I'm sure I could lose another 1/2 lb...

And the gear should save close to 4 oz if and when I can get it...

How about you? Where you at?

I have been working slowly, waiting for the engine, but have been watching everything, down to the tie wraps for the tank and reciever install. everytime I do some something to it I calculate and recalulate and tend to be in the 16.5 to 16.75 lbs range. The only thing is, that is considering I will lose 10-12 oz switching to CF gear, wing tube and tail tube. I know what the ZDZ 50 with ignition, muffer and standoffs weight and I went with one servo per wing panel and rudder. I have done some of the lightening mods and may do more once the engine is mounted for balancing purposes. If all holds true, I should be sub-17. That is still 1 lbs more than I would have hoped, but still not all bad. Especially after I emailed my buddy who has the TOC Yak and said his should be slightly less than 19 lbs. He thinks it will float fine, which it will, but true 3D will not be as crisp. The only true way to know will be once it is finally assembled. []

let me also clarify, I will be using Li-Po's for reciever and ignition, but 910 mah li-po's, swapped out every flight. Because of that I will use 1 switch (ignition), but need one V-regulator. 4.5 oz total in power supplies, 5 2 oz servos and one .5 oz servo (for throttle) 1.5 oz reciever about 3 oz in extensions 62 oz total engine, ignition, muffler and standoffs. Which is 5 lbs 1 oz or so. My plane weighed in at 12 lbs out of the box before any mod which would put me at 17 lbs, before CF landing gear, tail gear, wing tube and tail tube. Then add prop for 5 oz. We'll say I'm at 17.5 lbs, then subract wheel pants and difference for CF equipment. Wheel pants 4 oz and conservitive 8 oz for CF stuff and I am at 16.75. Hopefully all comes out as calculated, unless I am missing something major.

Maudib,

I have to disagree with you. This "mentality" of you get what you paid for that's ingrained in the American consumer and exploited by corporate America, is completely wrong.

I spent over 30 years working in the field service support business for semiconductor companies. And I worked for several organizations. One thing that was paramount in every successful company I worked for was that "the customer is always right". It didn't matter if we were talking about a $500 copier or a multimillion semiconductor production tool, "the customer was always right". What that meant to the field service organization was basically that when the customer asked you to jump, you were only allowed to ask them how high.

I am sure that taking in consideration the starvation wages the manufacturers are paying to third world workers in Asia. These companies (i.e. Lanier) are making quite a juicy profit on each kit. The fact is that when a distributor orders a specific design from an Asian manufacturer they are required to order a CONTAINER full of product MINIMUM. That leads me to believe these people (i.e. Lanier) are paying pennies on your dollar. I refuse to be swindled by these greedy companies, and if they are running around like chickens with their heads cut off because they can’t handle the volume of work selling their products is creating, well they should not try to bite more than thy can chew. They should hire more employees to handle the excess business and invest money in replacement parts stock inventory. No wonder American workers are underemployed or mostly unemployed, because these companies don’t want to invest in OUR workforce, they rather exploit some poor peasant all the way across the Pacific than pay decent wages and benefits to some fellow American. There is no reason whatsoever that any consumer in America should settle for second best because they paid lower prices. The least you can do is never, ever buy any more of their products. Just take a look around in present day America. Corporations like GM are constantly blaming their employee’s benefit programs for the reason they are going bankrupt. They refuse to admit that their poor engineered products, manufactured under a minimum of quality control have alienated the American consumer. We prefer the foreign built automobiles because of their quality, value retention, and the customer support they provide. Nothing that has to do with cost of purchase.

You need to add Wild Hare RC to that list here on RCU. They have there own forum, and Tom is first class all the way with customer support. You won't find a better business man or gentleman to deal with IMO.......

I do agree 100%, I am sorry to have skipped Wild Hare. Tom is sure one of the real honest business man in the RC business. First class support all the time and a gentleman to deal with. I highly recommend doing business with him.

Airtech,

I didn't say I agreed with it, I just said it's there.

Every manufacturer is responsible for it's policies.

I would be pissed too if I didn't have any recourse... and would show my dissappointment through not buying anymore either.

Wild Hare is indeed a fine company, but when I was sold a plane that was supposed to be 16.5 lbs with a G-62 and then an announcement was made that the factory only had grossly heavy aluminum stock for gear and wingtubes... and that a "lighter version" would be made available at an extra cost of $25. I was a little put off. Was it MY fault that the manufacturer stiffed him and put 1/4" thick aluminum gear on the Edge and Extra and used a really heavy grade of aluminum for the wingtube? Nope... but instead of either eating the cost himself or forcing the factory to make good, he passed the cost onto those who had already ordered. Accpet the crap gear & tube or pay more for a proper set.

His very words in similar complaints was "It's reflected in the cost".

I paid the price, built the plane, and when it still came in over 17 lbs with a DA50, I sold it without flying it. I've never ordered another WH plane since. Not that they are not good planes... just not what I expected them to be. I since have flown both an WH Extra and Edge and haven't changed my mind about ordering them.

I think since then he's pushed the manufacturer to maintain a better grade of materials.

I don't think the attitude is right, because if anyone takes my money, they should give me what they said they would. If not, they should make good. If not... then my CC company will make good FOR me.

I understand that there is frustration out there, but guys, it's winter, lets talk about the planes, not the companies that ahve screwed some of us. I'm not trying to rain on anyones parade, but lets enjoy what we have.
Anyway, still hoping for a sub-17 lbs Yak. I'll be happy with that.

BTW Maudib, I see you used a BME 110 in your QQ Yak. What's the weight on that. Engine ignition and mufflers? Is it really as light as claimed on BME's website? I think they list 3.9 lbs bare.

Yep... it's REAL light... I'm going with canisters so I don't have the mufflers to weigh...

Engine, ignition, 6 prop bolts and sparkplugs... 4.5 lbs (plus .1 oz)

Well hell, those that are runniong the 3W's might as well runn that thing. More horse same weight. That would be an interesting specimen. Then again, I could gain the 2 pounds with my lightened one and be at 18 lbs with the 110. Believe me, I'm crazy enough to do it. I could buy it for my Sist FW-190 and break it in on the Yak.

It would absolutely ludicrous power... I've got a 25x12 3 blade to "dumb it down" for the 102" Yak... Estimated 23.5 lbs RTF...

It easily swings (based on reports) a 28x10 2 blade... The Lanier would have to get some stilts...

It wouldn't wuite fit int he cowl either... with spark plug boots needing relieved. How might you imagine I would know that?