ok im going to get the 1/8th line this week and larger clunk and we see how we go....i was going to put the da in their and i tossed and turned and then decided to leave it and now im putting the da 50 in my extra QB buy aeroworks

One more question about the bigger fuel lines and the OS 160. I understand to replace all the lines with the 1/8 inch, plus the small piece between the carb and the needle. But what about the copper feed tubes that go into the tank? Is it ok to use the stock ones or are there bigger ones available to use. It just seems that if you used a 1/8 line on the clunk ,the fuel would get restricted when it passed through the tubes. Any thoughts Bubba? Thanks

replace the copper tubes as well. You can leave the vent/pressure side the stock stuff, just replace the side going to the needle/carb

ok, simple enough. I guess 1/8 inch copper tubing will work. The hardware store should carry that. Thanks

hey bubba, i will try the 1/8 fuel tubing. but just want to clarify something, i hada full tank of juice i richen it up quite a bit and ran till half empty on the ground full throttle none stop and it showed no tendancy to change,sounded good, then once in the air it seemed that it wouldnt throttle back any more it didnt seem to have any affect it was just bogging down bad but it was throwing smoke out of the motor so it had to be rich right,?? but whn it landed it had that "Lean smell to it " and i would of thought with the fuel tubing to small it would be like someone trying to squeeze the fuel tubing and the moterr would then run hotter but more quicker, but not slower and slower thats why i have no idea what was going on.?
do u think it could be because the fuel tank is too far back>>>? its in the stock location in the cap

Also bubba just wondering how you went with your new plane u said ur family bought u for xmas
Remember plenty of photo's

Aussie,

You could also not have enough of a hot air exit hole. The amount of smoke is a good sign but if you are using fuel with 20 percent oil, you are going to get a lot of smoke anyway unless you are really lean. If the engine is slowing down in the air, it is overheating and if you are running rich then look at cooling as well

Remember, on the ground is one thing, in the air is totally different. Also, until you get to roughly mid throttle, you are mainly running on the low speed needle.

As far as my Christmas gift I have yet to start it as I am still in the process of getting everything together for it. I just finished adding a few more goodies into my 33% WH Edge, I bought myself the Comp-Arf 2.3M Extra 330L to replace a few planes I am selling/retiring before I knew what the kids bought me. Last year they bought me a DA150 thinking I needed it but I did not have anything that the engine would go into so I held onto it, it's a good thing I did [sm=wink_smile.gif].

I'll gloat a bit. Here is a pic of the Edge as it is was 8 days ago. I just changed out the main gear to CF as well as the wing tube and prop/spinner. I lost a total of 1.25 pounds making these changes and had to re-balance it. I have not really flown it since because the ignition went south when I took it to the field on an upline. AI is sending me a new one and I should see it today or tomorrow but it's supposed to be rather ugly all week weather wise so it will be a bit until I get to fly it.

The 2 other pics are from Comp-Arf's site since I have not started on them, I do not have pics yet. They are the same planes I was just describing in the same colors

very nice bubba, cant wait to see ssome video footage
About the os 160, im beginning to think your right about the over heating because when it runs lean u can smell that after it been running, though one thing i dont get is the bottom is right open i cant open it any more (cowl ), the only thing i can do is open the other side of the cowl. that may work beeter tooo, though i wouldnt think that would make a huge difference.
and ill definatly chnge to bigger fuel lines i think that will make a huge difference...if all this fails i think ill get some stell wool and stick it in one of the exhaust pipes. i cant think of anything else>>?
do u think it could be the fuel tank being so far back>??

I would leave the other side closed for now.

In whaturi's video, I think the tank was a little further back or in the stock place, I cannot remember at this point. I know he did not move it forward

I think if you do use the steel wool, it would allow more pressure while still allowing the engine to breath

I was just going to open the other side of the cowl anyway when I get mine. I always wondering why GP has one side closed. Where does GP state in the directions to place the tank. I just figured it was like any other arf and they allowed a place just for it somewhere behind the firewall. I didnt know they made it adjustable.
P.S. Aussie. Please let us know what you come up with. Thanks

i will sewerdude, i wont be flying it for about 2 weeks due to building my new extra and im waiting for parts for my cap now ( Fuel tubing and clunk ) so when i get them ill let you know.

Bubba, so u think its a good idea to use the steal wool or not.???
what should i do first change the fuel line first then fly and see how we go then if still the same, i block one of the holes.??

Aussie,

Do the fuel line first. IMO, I think leaving the tubes open if at all possible is the best thing. The engine, like any engine needs to breath. By that I mean, fre flowing air into the carb, free flowing exhaust out the muffler. Anytime you restrict the exhaust flow you do build backpressure but you can have too much which will cause the engine to suffer.

Back in the time where I was a part of building race engines for drag cars, the more quickly we could get the exhaust out (polishing the exhaust ports) and the more we could get the intake mixure atomized (cutting deeper ridges into the intake manifold plenums), the more power the engine made. We would do large displacement engines for street cars, run them with open headers at the track and turn some quick times, them we would add a muffler, even a straight through one and do the run again and loose a second or two because of the exhaust restriction.

What it boils down do, an engine is an engine in regards to it's exhaust flow, even 2 stroke versus four stroke. Restrict the flow, lose power.

The tank position in the instructions really only works for a gas motor with their own pump. It is best to have the tank closer to the firewall. This requires a tank floor to be fitted and some material removed from the first former as shown in the pics.

As regards fuel lines and mufflers etc. It all goes back to the plug that you are using (and the fuel of course). All the posted fixes work but it really depends upon what you are fixing!

The OS 1.60 will get hot for many reasons. It will always get hot if there is not enough air to cool it. The CAP cowl is pretty good at cooling the head but you will get better results if you duct some air onto the crankcase as well, by opening up the other side. A large air exit hole is essential to let the hot air leave, especially when hovering etc. The picture below shows the size of exit used. (The second diverter was added after the photo was taken).

In the last picture you can see the crankcase and the 1/16" balsa diverter can be just be made out if your screen resoltion is good.

Back to the plug. We all know that the richer we run this 1.60 the cooler it runs. With an A3 or similar plug you have to run the engine lean to avoid it choking on transition etc. "Lean" means "just right" in this case. When you go vertical it gets a little leaner. Not much but enough to generate unwanted heat. It could be lean because of fuel-draw issues either from tank position or fuel tubing diameter or exhaust pressure.

As regards exhaust-pressure the Slimline did not give enough until one exit was blocked off. It was also quieter and gave an equal vertical climb-rate, BUT sounded less powerfull!!!! The Brison gave enough tank and 2-c back-pressure. If you look closely at one you will see that they have "belled" inwards the exits of each pipe-tube to considerably reduce the exit-area. BTW you can test if you have enough tank pressure by opening up the needle at full throttle. If you can't get the engine to go rich at three plus turns out, you don't have enough tank pressure or fuel supply available.

You can of course fix fuel-flow issues with pumps and cline type regulators. (That's a religious war in its own right). However, the way you set the fuel-mix adjustment is very similar for all set-ups.

Back to the plug again. A plug that is too cold will, on average, not let you set the OS 1.60 rich enough. A warmer plug allows you to set the low-end needle richer without putting the "fire" out. The OS "F" is a good plug for this engne. To set it up to give cool runs with good transition is a pretty straight forward exercise.The target is to set the carb as rich as possible and still get a smooth run. A slight gurgle in the mid-range is acceaptable as long as the engine does not hesitate.

With the engine warmed up with some full throttle runs you can richen the low-end needle and test the transition until it starts to struggle when the throttle is opened up. Then lean out the low-end needle about 1/4 of a turn in. You should get good responses to both slow and rapid applications of throttle. The reset the high end to be a few clicks off maximum rpm. Now find a big guy to hold your GP CAP 232 nose pointing at the sky! It should idle all day in that position and not run lean at full throttle.

Then pull back to 1/4 throttle for about 60 seconds to see if it goes hot. A hot engine makes a metalic pinging sound which is caused by the engine firing too soon due to the excess heat in the combustion chamber. This detonation is the scurge of a 2-c motor. An F-plug and a rich setting will make the OS 1.60 a much happier engine.

There are many other variables in this problem so results at home can differ!

I would close by adding that if you have been experiencing lean runs and the detonation described above, you should change your piston-ring. The hot run detonation can make the ring to go soft or damage the ring seat and cause it to stick. The OS lets you do this ring swap at the field because all you have to do is remove the head and slide out the sleeve to get to the piston ring.

Happy New year to you all,

Eric.

There some great knowledge here from both Eric and Bubba. I just figured that GP had the tank up against the firewall ,like most arfs .Not so in this Cap I guess. It sounds like a must do mod it one is going to run a 160 in the Cap 232, something to make a note of. I for one will open up the other side of the cowl for alittle better cooling, also I'll run some 1/8 inch fuel lines, cant hurt anything. Lastly, from what I'm gathering on Eric's post......Go with a F glow plug........ I'm very greatful to you guys for the super info, it will come in handy [sm=thumbup.gif]

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCB28&P=ML
is this the plug u were talking about.??? they recommend in the manual os 8>??
thats a pretty neat engine mount and stand offs where did u pick them up from.?

Yes that is the plug.

The "8" will work but you are using the engine in a very tough situation and it needs to run richer and hence cooler. The hotter "F" lets you do that. My "F" plugs will last about two seasons or 300-400 runs easily. Been using them in big OS's for a dozen years or more.

The mount is a commercially avaiable Dubro Iso-mount. I needed the nose weight and the vibration isolation is a big plus. Made the stand-off's. A plywood spacer block would be just as good.

Same web-site for Dubro mount. See bottom of post.

It says it's for a 1.20 but I have used them over and over again on OS 1.40's and 1.60's with no problems. It is a very solid item. The cast Ali drills and taps well for 6 or 8-32 threads so you don't need nuts etc. to hold the engine in place.

Regards,

Eric.


[link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=Dubro+mount&FVPROFIL =++&search=Go]Tower hobbies[/link][link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=Dubro+mount&FVPROFIL =++&search=Go]http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=Dubro+mount&FVPROFIL =++&search=Go[/link]

I now have three flights on my Cap, it flys great! Two clicks down was all it took to have it flying straight and level. It does float....allot! I have a tree line at one end of the runway and have to drop the nose a bit after passing the trees, the Cap picks up air speed in a hurry. I had a JR servo reverser on the two elevator servos but was getting some extra movment on the slave servo pass dead center when I came back to netural on the elevator stick. A friend gave me a smart-fly Equalizer and it worked out much better.....The fuji is working out great, always starts by the third flip if I don't forget to choke it, amazing what a little gas can do ). I'm running a 20X8 TBM wooden prop. It has plenty of speed and power and I'm not disappointed in the least bit with it's performace. I bet a DA50 is a kick in the b_tt with this airplane, a fellow flyer at the field has the GP Ultimate with a DA50.....WOW!
Guys, thanks for your help..........

We have the same situation at our field (trees at both ends of the runway) and have to drop in as well. I found that if you go into your airbrake mix and put in about 5 degrees of up spoiler with a little down elevator the plane will come in nicely and do great three points without the floating.

Lou55, I have a JRSport6, it does not have the mixing capbilites. I was thinking of experimenting with a bit of flapron? The ailerons don't go from the tip of the wing all the way to the fuse, that concerns me about it tip stalling.

I'm not sure what effect flaps would have on it but would think they would make it float more. You can ask Bubbagates about that one. I know he put the airbrake mix on his and got the same results as me. Maybe he may know more about your radio and can tell you how to mix it in. I fly a 9CAP.

I'm not sure how to do that radio. I could look at the manual and see if I can figure it out, but tip stalling this Cap is not an issue at all. The only way I've ever gotten this thing to even remotely drop a wing is too much throw at too high a speed. The ailerons going to the fuse would not cure a tip stall. A ip stall is induced by many things but it's most common is because the tip stalled first and that includes the tip of the ailerons so the inside is still effective. If you look closely and especially if you use a good incidence meter, you will find some washout about 2/3rds the way out from the fuse on the wing, that is what keeps the tip stall in check. The washout is minor but it is there

Lot's of people are fearful of a Cap tip stalling and in every case I had recommended lowering the elevator throw and in every case that ended that problem. On low rates I use something like 3/8th to 1/2 inch of throw and it will turn this plane on a dime and not drop a wing.

Now for 3D rates I go bevel to bevel and if I am too fast on 3D rates, I can get it to drop a wing, but I have to really work at it. The key is not to horse the elevator. A Cap will response just fine if you remain smooth on the elevator. Start horsing around on the elevator on older Caps and the Cap580 and it will bite you. As I said, this Cap just dos not have that problem

This plane is a floater, Flaperons will be a mistake if you try to use them for landing. as this thing floats forever especially on a dead stick Spoilerons would be better.

lou, When u took the 1.60 off this plane and put ur gasser in, did u fill the holes on the firewall.???and put the servo in the tail for the rudder.? if so how did u fill the holes in.?

I epoxied a 1/4" piece of ply onto the front of the firewall. That filled the holes and strengthened it. I also moved the servos to the tail so the plane would balance..

Lou, that setup looks great, do u find the spe 40 more stronger than the 1.60, also how many servo's are u using for the rudder.?

The BCMA 40 will put out 20 pounds of static thrust once broken in with a Xoar 20X8 prop. That's only two more then the 160 did. I bought the 40 for another plane but it turned out to be unsuitable for it so I put it into the CAP for the torque. The rudder requires two servos when you move them to the back. I'm running about 160oz in in each one.

well guys i just moved my fuel tank up to the front, it was a bit of an effort though hehe, i changed the fuel lines and barb and pickup so hopefully i should experience a full flight, Hopefully i hope this works if not i dont know what iam going to do....