Hey guys...
Thanks for the kind words. It's nice to be back. We'll see if I can still say that in a few weeks.
Thanks
Barry

Hey Jack... He's taking off all the time now, and he has landed a few times,
not real pretty but his plane is still in its original configuration...
That's why I started going out more in the week days.. He'll solo soon...

It was a bit windy this AM.... I only got one flt. in on the Kat... She flys good
in the wind... Was practicing rolling harriers at about 10' this time and a gust
got it and started it towards the ground fast... but all came out good) and
the YS stayed running.... But I am a bit gun shy...... New saying, High & Slow
Did not get any trainning in because of the wind... I know... I know... But here
we don't fly in high wind...High = 15+ and I might be hedging some :-) Guess
because we don't have too:-) Anyway we tuned his engine/new OS plug and
it'll be ready for the next time. I think??? His new 1 gal.+ Tower 46 started
hacking some on T.O. and I can't seem to find the right setting on the low side,
runs great on the ground, pointing her up and the pinch test.... But head down
the runway and pull up and here we go again.. Worse part of the day, I packed
up and headed home... At home 5 mins later, and after a half hour.......
Calm as silk....... I'm now thinking of.......

Dam... still waiting on the post office, my returned "Do" wing is still not showing up
I guess 25 days is still too soon for them...&%$#*


*******
Hey people.. Be Safe and keep a heads up while flying!!!!!!!!!!!!...

We had an almost bad situation a few days ago.. Someone was taking off and lost
control, not the pilot but the plane... and she found the safety fence opening, tore
the wing and tail off and the nose kept going at full throttle.. Luckily it grounded
itself... Enough people called out "heads up to the right" and the pilot that was
flying in that spot cleared just in time and so did the members in that area of the pit.

We will never stop all of the problems.... But upkeep and routine maintance and
checks will minimize problems!!!

Glad you're back Barry. You're a good man and we really value your input and skills..........[8D]

Raid, I flamed out on my third flight with the Kat today--I ran her out of fuel while hovering, no less. She recovered but, in snow without skis, I spoiled the anchor of one landing gear. I'm going to put some hardwood in the fuse for that anchor point. I didn't hit hard enough, in snow, to hurt the damned thing. My fault entirely, though.

Re my Saito 82a, which I cursed in these pages. Horizon Hobby Services returned the engine with new bearings, no cost to me. The tech said the bearings had corroded, my fault, and that I should ALWAYS put in after-run oil after every day's flying. Point is, Saito folks were as good as their word--better, actually. They didn't charge me for something that was my fault.

And I don't understand that. I fly that 82a almost every day. I had one stretch of maybe five days we couldn't fly. Every time I've checked the tappets or whatever, there's castor oil everywhere inside. I use Wildcat Premium (15% nitro; 18% castor/synthetics). So WHY should those bearings corrode? I understand nitromethane residuals are "corrosive," but from one day to the next? And how does one get after-run oil into the BOTTOM of the engine without taking off the muffler after each flying session? I can't believe you put it in the HEAD, by suction through the carb, and enough oil will seep past the cylinder to get the job done. You tell me.

Raid: re students and engines. We had a hard-to-tune engine today, too. I couldn't figure it out. New gallon of fuel, fresh gas, Wildcat. Made no sense. Old engine, though, a .36 Magnum. Maybe something's wearing out in the carb. I just don't know--and that hurts.

Re safety: there's nothing worse than an out of control bird. Please let us know what the autopsy on the bird indicates: bad battery, receiver, loose connections... whatever. Maybe we can all learn from THAT pilot's disaster.

Fly safe, fly well.

Jack

Jack, the bearings start to rust before you get home if you dont get all the fuel burned out after each session,empty the tank and then run the motor till it quits and then spin it some more and to get the oil in the crank case you just stick the nipple of your oil bottle in the crankcase line and squirt it in.

been there[]

Hey Barry, hows it going, really glad to hear ya yapping again, glad your back, ill try not to rub it in about having almost perfect weather in the winter but im like Ron, if we dont brag in the winter we dont brag, and i just have to, you understand dont ya

Ron, there is a difference in the wind in the desert than the wind on the plains, ours never blows in a straight line, its everywhere, thats why it makes us sound like chickens when we talk about not flying in the wind, so dont sweat it, im with ya, chicken!!!

Hey Gary..... Chicken.... I have you know that I have flown in atleast 5 mile/hr wind
and we're talking gust and cross.. Haa Now what'll you think...
SShhhh....... It was a bit shaky tho Keep it quiet.. But had to go to the out house
after[] Our wind only blows two dirs.... This way and that way..................

Jack... See Ya using my profile thread.... Good thing I got my result, Sometimes they
get distracted....

Well, The run around has started somewhat in my Post Office/ "Do wing" saga [:@] I
call again late yestarday and still unable to locate number, So I get switched to a (I
think) live person... She checks number and both mailer and addressee shipping names
and still unbale to find... She say's to go back to P.O. and have them resubmit claim, So
I tried that this morning and they tell me it's way to early and that it can take up to 60 days
to just show that they received it #%^&... So instead of resubmitting, she gives me a local
# to call and check.... Been trying to call the # for an hr..... Bet you know what I got....
Now listening to " The Boss "..... I told ya so...............................
Now I understand how Mins. can turn into Months.................

Moral of the sad but true story... If you do not want to wait months..... Fix it......

It is weird on the rusting of Saito bearings?? I thought I read that the newer
engine was different on that problem??? Maybe it happens to all, But
I read very little on this on other engines.. But heard a bit on the Saito's????
I pretty much stopped using A.R.O. after flying... Well on my 4c's because
of the YS.... I do run dry after the day... Guess I'll start using on the Saito
When I had the back plate of, the bearing did have a tint of that color... It's
still cleaned,oiled and wrapped... I think waiting on a wing and a prayer[:@]

Raid, my flying pal says there's a water-absorbing oil used commonly in compressor tools, which have problems with water residuals. I'll let you know what that is, but I'm going to start plunging high-quality, sythetic oil into my 4 strokes' crank breather after every run, and AFTER I run them dry of nitro. Also, if you look at that previous pic, you'll note I have disconnected the pressure and fuel lines--and connected THEM with a plastic tube which fits, saving whatever fuel is in the tank and DISconnecting it from the engine's carb. That oughta work, too, instead of pumping OUT the unused fuel every day.

I ALSO heard it's good to hang planes upside down, so whatever "oil" is in ther (including castor) will settle on the bearings. I have NO idea if that's a good idea or not, but where are engines cost more than $250 a pop, we ought to find out, hm?

Later.

Jack

Hey Jack... That sounds like a plan... Here I don't think I really have to go too deep
into it.... I M.T. my tank, It's pretty much M.T. anyway.. Sometimes b 4 I land
I've always started the engine to run off the remaining fuel... I just quit using A.R.O.
in the YS and Saito.... I always used it in the rest... I still won't use it in the YS but
the Saito will get some...

I made contact with the local P.O. ... She said that St. Louis has it and I should be
hearing or getting the check soon????? She also said she could not understand why
the main claims office could not find it????? She also said that my claim should go
"really fast" because all the needed things were included and that the damage is
confrimed to be from them......... WoW.... Almost 30 days... Talk about speed....
I asked again about getting the wing back also... No luck on that part... I also
threw in my Yak/UPS deal, She goes wow thats great on getting the plane back and
the money.... You should write the PostMaster general telling him that they should
change their policy as a payment for the wait..... Yeah Right.........

Raideron...
Just think how much better the service would have been if the postage was .40. Wow.
Thanks
Barry

For sure Barry..... Wow... Service is number 1....... Just not sure where...

rAID, Maybe the secret to this corrosion problem in 4 strokes is just running off the nitro in them, as you do. Strange YOU haven't had any problems and DO NOT us A.R.O.

hey, snap out of it guys, oil dont hurt anything, does it?

I use oil in all my other engines, The only one I started not useing oil was the
YS as I was told it's just best if you run dry and store inverted because of the
regulator dia. and other parts like it, if you fly a lot, or if storing for long periods
use only full syn oil??? And I guess when I got the Saito I just did the same as
the YS.. But I see that the Saito does need the oil along with running it dry at the
end of the day.....

Jack I don't not believe it's just 4c's, all can have the problem.. Guess more so
in your area... Here it's a bit dry... So I gues less of that problem.. as I said
above the YS was the only one that went oilless... I had both my YS 63's open
and all looked great inside??? The Saito had a tint of that rust color.. So she's
getting oiled from now on... I believe running them dry is good to get most
the nitro out....

Gieffers, it's not just about the oil, but what KIND and when. Every time I checked anything inside my Saitos, they were covered with oil, castor--which Wildcat fuels SAYS protects engines. Obviously not so. Now, TWICE, I've had trouble with my Saito 82a. I bought it in August, sent it back October 10. They simply rebuilt it and sent it back, the bearings were bad and they ruined everything else interior. January 10 I noticed movement in the forward bearing--and sent it back saying that something with the crank or head was misaligned and I wanted nothing less than a new engine. The tech responded that the bearings (which he sent back) had corroded--and WARNED me that the repair wasn't under warranty, because of the rust, but they replaced the bearings with no charge. That's a $279 buck item. I WANT it to run dependably and I WANT to maintain it correctly.

For after run oil I've been using Penzoil's synthetic, $4/ quart (cheaper than Tower's A.R.O.), especially when I KNEW an engine, 2 or 4 stroke, would be down for a while. Obviously not good enough, the Penzoil. NOW my buddy says there's an oil, a dessicating oil, that clears all moisture from the engine. They use it with compressor tools, evidently. Yet, it's not just moisture, though I'm not a chemical engineer, that "corrodes" those bearings. I suspect water is PART of the chemical, an acid, however. It usually is.

And, Gieffers, if you remove the glo plug, put a squirt of oil in the head of the engine, changing the compression area, you CAN blow the head or bend the crank if you try to start it without removing the oil. So oil CAN hurt things. This hobby is more complex than most folks believe. Removing the plug, putting in and removing oil before starting again may just have to become one of the every day processes we have to go through. For lazy mutts like me, it seemed a lot of trouble for nothing. Now I know it's not for nothing.

So the larger question is: what, precisely, chemically, "corodes" our bearings in 2 and 4 stroke engines? And can you eliminate MOST of it for DAILY flight just by disconnecting the fuel tube and running the engine dry, letting the castor do ITS bit? What oil, bought over the counter in most places, is the VERY BEST for after run use?

Where can I find answers?

Jack

Ok, here goes Jack, im pretty new to the rc circuit , but i did the same thing with my 100 that you have been through, rusted bearings and reading on fuel containers that you dont need aro if you use this fuel and all
i sent in my 100 and had to fight them to fix it thinking that a new engine that i flew at least 3-4 times a week should never have rusted bearings, well------- thats a myth[X(]
so i started reading on the engines section (glow engines to be exact) and you should too, since im not real expierenced at getting my point across, i do mean well
as far as the aro i now use atf because the old timers say it or airtool oil like your friend say is the best and since ive had my 100 out of the shop ive over 500 flights on it (about 13 months) and im just now feeling a little slop in the bearings if i wiggle the prop shaft but it still runs great
my advice is to go join club saito and read the whole thread and you will learn more about saitos than you will probably need or use.

good luck Jack!!

ps: also you dont need aro in the cylinder head through the glow plug hole because there is no problem in there, just in the crankcase

Barry good to hear from you, welcome back. All these questions about bearings, after run oil should be addresed to the guys who fly all the time and burn alot of fuel. Barry, gjeffers, and others. Nitro-methane is the corisive ingredient, in fuel, (which if I remember increased the compression and burning temperture), which is why running engine alittle rich is a good idea. Also keep in mind the flying you do with the UCD. Vertical flight, harriers, hovering all put the engine in a slow moving, non-cooled condition with the front bearing getting very little lubrication. yiks! People that I have talked to at our field that fly normally(boring also) don't seem to have as many bearing problems as 3-D'rs do.

Doug[8D]

Hi guys...
Thanks again for all the kind words. It's nice to have friends out there.

Well, I think I've found a pretty good plane for my winter project. I just ordered this baby and confirmed it shipped yesterday.

www.maxairrc.com

I plan on putting that Saito 125 in this baby just to offer comparison to the YS.

Of course this in no way means I'll be flying the UCDs less. Just another plane to try. The UCDs are not replaceable in my book.

Take a look at that plane and let me know what you think.

THanks
Barry

Thanks, Gieff, and you're right of course, once you get into something you need to experience and research it.

I do find, not being a science person, that there's only so much I'm willing or able to learn up front, but once I get the NEED to know, I work at it--and become READY for it. Newbie fliers are the same way. If you overload them with information, you really hurt them. An asked question, however, is always answered--because that QUESTION indicates the need to know. Yet... knowing is about diversity and separation, one thing from another, getting the facts; UNDERSTANDING concerns integration and synthesis, when everything, facts and experience, come together.

Now, where is this "Saito club" of which you speak?

Another question: since we're dealing with BOTH 2 and 4 cycles, I would think you would HAVE to put aro in the head of a 2 stroke--or remove the muffler--to get the oil down in the bearings. Like you, I run those engines almost every day, weather permitting (and when not maybe a four day stretch).

Lordy, lordy, today we started at 11:00 am, in light snow, no sun, low clouds, and flew, just two of us, until 4:30--great sun and high clouds after 11:30. I saw Downtrodden run his OS .61 Twist 25 minutes! on one tank (11 oz. tank)! 13 x 5 prop. Variable wind, fun to play in. Wish I had videos.

I can only hope your day in CA was half as good.

Jack

nice plane Barry, i put it in my hearts

Jack, as far as putting aro in the head, imo you dont have to, in a 2 stroke it just falls by the piston anyway and goes down to the bearings, putting it in the carb of a 2stroke gets it right to the bearings also(carb is right between the bearings)
i flew all day today also, was pretty nice here too[8D]

also you can go to club saito here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_33..._1/key_/tm.htm

Barry... She looks like she'll be fun!! And with the 125.... Keep us updated!!

Jack as Gary said... After running them dry, on 2c's just add the oil into the
wide open carb. and hand turn the prop a few times, I myself add another
3-5 drops after, then point the plane up then down somewhat and hand spin
the prop. one or two times. On 4c's I still put a few drops in the carb. and
spin the prop usually having to do this with the plane inverted trying to "bomb"
drop it into the wide open carb. for the upper end, and use the crankcase
breather for the lower..

Gieff, I'm in the "Saito Club" and got my answers from the horse's mouth, I guess, Bill. Thanks again.

Jack

ok Jack, you can call me Gary now, great thread that saito club is

got my 125 today, man is she purdy[8D]
the 60 size will get a kick out of it

Gary, right. I'm REALLY anxious to hear about the new Saito 125. I've got my 1.0 on the .60 and am not pleased with it. Next time I fly, though, I'm going to use a 15 inch prop, not the 13 x 8 that I have been using.

I picked up some air tool oil today, dessicating oil, and IMMEDIATELY put it into the 1.0, which has been dormant for a month with just high quality oil in it.

Good luck with the 125.

Jack