porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

The intent is clear, take any stat and try to spin it to show bad, show doom and gloom, and predict failure right around the corner. Pulling stats out of context and fitting them into one's ongoing and perpetual narrative has become second nature. Never a positive, never a number or action that can show an alternative view. Again, I'll say it's a dishonest and disingenuous practice. All the more ironic since anything even close to positive coming from the AMA is immediately trashed and discounted, but when there is something that can be used in a negative light, then all of a sudden it's gospel.

So still nothing about the increasing membership over the past 4-5 years? To much good news for this thread?

TimJ

Our (model aviation community) amendment in the FAA Modernization Act should be temporarily extended for another year. Give more time for the AMA to come up with a way to make our exemption more permanent.

TimJ

If you read carefully Franky, the article says club membership not AMA membership. One can still be an AMA member and not be a member of a club.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

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franklin_m

Not entirely true. In response to your post (I think) about the State College club getting an award, I think I said something positive.

For the record, good that AMA increased total membership over the last handful of years. That's good. I also hope they stem the declining trend in revenue as well (in constant inflation adjusted dollars).

That said, absent a legal requirement to be a member, I'm not certain it's cost effective for me in the future. I haven't made the decision yet, as I still own some club sized planes. Although I haven't flown them in three years, I don't know that I'm ready to never fly them again. For me the bang for my dollar is at issue, $175 a year to fly a .40 - 60 size plane on a rough grass field where I have to wait for others to clear the runway so others can fly - not unlike the field you described.

franklin_m

I wasn't talking about AMA membership. I was talking about club membership.

franklin_m

True, but it's also another year for FAA to continue their registration program. I'm reminded of a famous Reagan quote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSxT8E9Ls5c

franklin_m

And I'm confident that you and others will continue to present your views. I'm content to let the readers decide how much of each point to believe. I think you'll also agree that I tend to support many of my assertions source material quotes and links where applicable.

franklin_m

I think more likely would be EAA and//or groups like those that advocate for part 103 fliers. It gets sticky in a hurry if FAA intimates in any way that membership is required. They can say you gotta follow CBO guidelines all day long - until the point where those guidelines say membership is required.

I'm happy to follow AMA guidelines whether or not I decide to continue my membership. For the $175 that it would cost me for AMA + club, I can pay for part 107 every year. That has the added advantage of a two year term, vice just one for the part 101 route. I'm already complying with the part 107 operating restrictions, so I'm not seeing a downside - unless of course the airport (co located with club field) won't allow 107 operations. That could affect my choice, but then again, I'm back to the "is an additional $175 a year worth it to fly 40-60 size airplanes a handful of times?"

TimJ

The club thing is more of a society problem. The younger generation want to be apart of groups, but don't want to deal with the old stuffy clubs ran by a board of people twice their age that are power hungry and have bad attitudes.

Take a look at Quad racing. There are thousands of groups, of people whom meet on a regular basis to race their quads. I think the model aviation community as a hole needs to take a serious look at this and adjust how they run their organizations so that the younger generations can feel welcomed.

rcmiket

I keep hearing about these " thousands" of groups meeting to race quads but have yet to see it taking off no less taking over. Even the big money events lack the kinda spectator attendance to keep attracting the prize money that will drive it. I keep waiting for all this to materialize as I've been informed my a number of people here that it's our organizations future.

Mike

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

Oh for sure. The "views" presented by those that don't line up to accept random links as gospel are usually shared with full context, or to show an alternative to the usual AMA=Bad the hobby is about to come to an end narrative. 10 years of painting virtually everything about the AMA as bad, versus some common sense logic.....I'm more than sure the average reader can draw the correct conclusion. All complaints and Monday morning quarterbacking, no real action, other than past comments working with personal injury attorneys against the AMA, and more recently threatening to use political connections to try to make things even more difficult for hobbyists. Still haven't heard from your most fervent supporter how he felt about that rather, pedestrian, tactic. The guy who cried wolf concept comes into play at some point, the message might be in need of adjustment.

The hobby will continue on, almost identical to the way it was years ago. Membership will ebb and flow in clubs and the AMA, and there will still be people complaining bitterly on the sidelines about anything and everything the AMA does. Meanwhile, flying goes on!

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

If you aren't looking for the information and open to accepting it, you'll never see it. You have consistently dowplayed any FPV/Quad racing event, no matter how big or small. If I'm not mistaken you even downplayed the $1,00,0000 event in Dubai, as if a teenager winning $250,000 was nothing? Can't remember any "traditional" aircraft company putting anything close to that up for prize money, can you? I like how the metric has been changed now to how many spectators attend, as if that's the measure of success, rather than how many pilots attend or how many companies sponsor the event. LOL.

As for the comment about MR being the future of the hobby by folks here....that just hasn't happened. It's as if the more it's said, the more it's true, but it's not. They will be a part of the future of the hobby, but nobody has said it's the future of the AMA. That is actually the twisted narrative of the virulently anti-AMA, who claim they sold the hobby down the river for the riches and fame involved with drones.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

This this this. So true, but you were kind to say twice the age, lol. One only has to look at the threads here and comments from the self proclaimed "traditional" hobbyists to see how anyone other than them might be treated. If its not a scratch-built J3 or Corsair....well, it doesn't really count. An ARF? As if, and don't get us started on foam. And those helis and annoying 3D pilots.

And that's even before getting into the make up of clubs, and the politics of the leadership in those clubs. It doesn't take much of a leap to see how some clubs, and some members, will try to keep anything "different" at arms length.

Sport_Pilot

The club I used to belong to has a quad racing obstacle course. Local clubs can increase membership by setting one up. Next I guess is FPV 3D heli's. I would love to watch that after they pull their goggles off!

TimJ

Here is a recent map showing pin points for some of the groups across the country.

You bring up a lack of spectators. I believe that part of the problem with that is a lack of spectator safety and good announcers. I'm sure that will grow over time.

franklin_m

I've also think that if we're going to capture more members, in AMA and/or in clubs, on factor that affects that is the consistency of the "customer experience." I'd love to fly on a nice paved runway, but the nearest is the better part of two hours away. While the one field that is close (and by that I mean 20 minutes one way) is a rough grass field that costs me an additional $100 year? Now I make decent money and could pay for paying's sake, but why? I'd much rather just adjust what I fly and eliminate the need to for a club field - which means I can fly a five minute walk away.

But the problem though, is that the club membership issue could prove to be a leading indicator of club membership. So thinking this out to a logical conclusion, if club membership continues the 15 year trend mentioned, then it will be more and more expensive for remaining members to support the club fields. Is it reasonable to assume that if the trend isn't reversed, there will be more, the same, or fewer club fields in the future? I think logic indicates fewer. Now, if you only require AMA to fly at a club field, and there are fewer club fields, then doesn't that mean less need for AMA membership? Again, I think so. But time will tell.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

A great visual, gives a good idea of what is really going in. I actually feel safer watching the FPV racers than I do helis. Some of the wild 3D stuff is intense!

I guess the NEAT Fair and NALL and SEFF can only be called a success now if there are tons and tons of spectators, rather than you know, pilots.

porcia83

My Feedback: (8)

LoL...all logical conclusions end at bad news for AMA and clubs. And as always, time will tell.

franklin_m

If what I'm saying is so obviously wrong, the links are so obviously unreliable, the quotes so obviously inaccurate, and what I say of generally so little value - then why spend so much time addressing it?

TimJ

The clubs that have survived thus far have adapted to the climate. Those that haven't will dry up and disappear.

What many people are not seeing is a very large generation of people starting to retire. There is a pretty good percentage that the ranks of model aviation will once again climb. AMA numbers have been showing growth the last three year or so.

Judging purely by the AMA membership numbers, I'm not sure that clubs will go away like you've explained Franklin. I'm just not convinced of that.

I am a member of the largest club on the west coast, second largest in the nation, a member of an association of 9 clubs that use the same field and a very niche club. All three have experienced flux in membership up and down. But nothing indicates that membership is dying. Absolutely nothing. What I have noticed is absolute change in what people fly, where they purchase, and what they purchase.

rcmiket

Those "pin points" ain't "thousands" is it? I think a more realistic numbers is hundreds. The map I posted is one of the biggest mutli-rotor sites out there. Time will tell if it's the hobby's and AMA's saving grace. I don't see that right now.

Mike

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

You know, that sounds terrible. I don't know how you deal with all these problems.

Chris P. Bacon

My Feedback: (4)

It's been my experience that lots of folks only see what they want to see.

GSXR1000

My Feedback: (7)

OK EVERYONE.... Here is the Official Word.... if you want to fly anything from a paper plane, to 1-1 giant scale rc plane. You have 2 choices of places to fly... You'll have to book your flying time in advance and probably be able to make 2 yearly flying trips. You have to choose either the Bonneville Salt Flats or the Burning Man Nevada Desert.... If you choose Burning Man, you can night fly with lights and sync your manuevers to the blairing techno going on at Burning Man...