Serial Numbers on AMA Ballots ????
09-19-2016, 01:44 PM
#52
Especially if Rich is the one responsible for the 400 foot letter I really do hope he stays as govt. affairs representative if he does not win . I do believe he will win though , so we'll get to see if Chad & Travis can continue the good work that's already been done . So BTW you haven't yet told me , who do you think is gonna win , and what do you think the order of the rest of the votes will be ?
09-19-2016, 02:43 PM
#54
Thank you for posting that , and I hope you know my list isn't based on who I think would be "better" for the job as I think all four candidates would do just fine as AMA President , it's just my list of how I predict the results will turn out . Both you and I , as well as most of my local flying buddies are in agreement that we think Rich is gonna get the spot . To be honest with you the one big takeaway for me from this election is that I always had assumed that the president was a paid position and to learn that it's not was really eye opening for me . For folks to be THAT dedicated that they would take on that responsibility for no pay really does say a lot about the devotion each candidate has to the hobby , part of the reason that I think each one of em would make a fine president , and I am truly happy our organization has such generous people who would donate their time for free like that .
09-19-2016, 03:00 PM
#55
PS , this posting for fun of who we think is gonna win and what we think the distribution of votes will be is not for Porcia and myself only , anybody and everybody are welcome to share their picks if they so desire , In fact the more the merrier , it's gonna be fun seeing how our predictions compare to the actual results .
09-19-2016, 03:13 PM
#56
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Thank you for posting that , and I hope you know my list isn't based on who I think would be "better" for the job as I think all four candidates would do just fine as AMA President , it's just my list of how I predict the results will turn out . Both you and I , as well as most of my local flying buddies are in agreement that we think Rich is gonna get the spot . To be honest with you the one big takeaway for me from this election is that I always had assumed that the president was a paid position and to learn that it's not was really eye opening for me . For folks to be THAT dedicated that they would take on that responsibility for no pay really does say a lot about the devotion each candidate has to the hobby , part of the reason that I think each one of em would make a fine president , and I am truly happy our organization has such generous people who would donate their time for free like that .
09-20-2016, 05:07 AM
#57
As a proud member of the AMA's unwashed masses, those to be seen and not heard, I cast my ballot today. That said, I'm well aware that the same folks who will be counting ballots could be effected by the outcome, so I fully expect my vote will end up in the trash before it's counted.
Last edited by franklin_m; 09-20-2016 at 05:31 AM.
09-20-2016, 06:35 AM
#58
As a proud member of the AMA's unwashed masses, those to be seen and not heard, I cast my ballot today. That said, I'm well aware that the same folks who will be counting ballots could be effected by the outcome, so I fully expect my vote will end up in the trash before it's counted.
Hi Franklin , 
I also believe the ballots should be counted by an independent outside firm , and my reasoning is this ;I was told here some months ago by at least two different posters that the only thing keeping the AMA from receiving a literal deluge of fraudulent model aircraft theft insurance claims is the fact that a police report and signs of forced entry are required to be submitted with the insurance claim . Do you remember me having that conversation with a couple or few of our fellow RCU posters ? Well , if we the members are suspect of possibly giving in to the temptation of "easy money" by filing a false claim , what's to say a member directly affected by and involved in a vote won't also possibly give in to the all too Human temptation to skew the results in his own favor ? This is NOT any kinds of accusation , just to head THAT off before I get it thrown back at me , this is more a case of if we the members are suspect of possibly giving in to temptation then aren't ALL members subject to possibly giving in to their Human urges to "take advantage of the system" ? At what point does a member go from being someone who may follow their urges and needing built in "checks & balances" to insure the honesty of , to someone of such rock solid honesty that they are to be taken as being 100% beyond reproach and as honest as ol "Honest Abe" ?
The Scriptures are chock full of stories of Human temptation and NO MAN is above being tempted . Most do not follow those temptations . Some do . If checks & balances are required of us "unwashed masses" , shouldn't the same apply across the board , from us lowly members right on up to the EC ?
The outside counting of Ballots is just the kind of fair check & balance an election like this deserves if it's integrity is to not be called into question .
Last edited by init4fun; 09-20-2016 at 06:38 AM. Reason: Yes , once again , TYPOS , for real ....
09-20-2016, 06:42 AM
#59
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Hi Franklin , I also believe the ballots should be counted by an independent outside firm , and my reasoning is this ;I was told here some months ago by at least two different posters that the only thing keeping the AMA from receiving a literal deluge of fraudulent model aircraft theft insurance claims is the fact that a police report and signs of forced entry are required to be submitted with the insurance claim . Do you remember me having that conversation with a couple or few of our fellow RCU posters ? Well , if we the members are suspect of possibly giving in to the temptation of "easy money" by filing a false claim , what's to say a member directly affected by and involved in a vote won't also possibly give in to the all too Human temptation to skew the results in his own favor ? This is NOT any kinds of accusation , just to head THAT off before I get it thrown back at me , this is more a case of if we the members are suspect of possibly giving in to temptation then aren't ALL members subject to possibly giving in to their Human urges to "take advantage of the system" ? At what point does a member go from being someone who may follow their urges and needing built in "checks & balances" to insure the honesty of , to someone of such rock solid honesty that they are to be taken as being 100% beyond reproach and as honest as ol "Honest Abe" ?
The Scriptures are chock full of stories of Human temptation and NO MAN is above being tempted . Most do not follow those temptations . Some do . If checks & balances are required of us "unwashed masses" , shouldn't the same apply across the board , from us lowly members right on up to the EC ?
The outside counting of Ballots is just the kind of fair check & balance an election like this deserves if it's integrity is to not be called into question .
Mike
Last edited by rcmiket; 09-20-2016 at 07:08 AM.
09-20-2016, 07:05 AM
#60
Hi Mike , Do you mean "Honestly IMO IN HOUSE counting of the Ballots should not be done period" ?
I ask this because the way your post reads it appears as though no one should count the ballots . We need them counted , just not by the folks who would be directly affected by the outcome .
09-20-2016, 07:19 AM
#62
Great , I just wanted to make sure I understood your post correctly . I have started a Poll thread to gauge sentiment of whether an outside firm should do the counting or if it should be done in house .
09-20-2016, 07:55 AM
#63
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But you have to trust that the people in the AMA will do the right thing. Do you NOT trust your local club to count it's own ballets? Come on now.
09-20-2016, 08:04 AM
#64
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Mike
09-20-2016, 08:20 AM
#65
Hi Tim , Here's what I was getting at , and I hope you understand ;
Yes sir I do , I trust as an organization 100 % completely in the AMA . I wouldn't have been a member for 50 odd years if I didn't ....
Now , people on the other hand , people as individuals , I trust a good 95/98 ish % of . Not 100 % . No way no how . And that's based on years of seeing accumulated stories of people doing a very good job of hiding their bad character , the best example being these kindly friendly neighborhood good guy dudes who turn out to be serial killers or serial predators like that guy Sandusky who went to jail after hurting all those children all the while in the guise of "coach mr. nice guy" . Since neither You nor I or anybody else has a divining rod that will with 100 % certainty identify someone untrustworthy the entire civilized world is made up of checks & balances to attempt to thwart the ill intended . We , as members , have our checks & balances in the form I've already discussed . In times past , the AMA EC themselves saw fit to instill the check and balance of the outside count specifically to keep the integrity of the election at 100 % because they knew the old adage of "it only tales one bad apple ...." .
Last edited by init4fun; 09-20-2016 at 08:22 AM.
09-20-2016, 08:33 AM
#66
Oops , I forgot to answer your club question .
The club I belong to , at the fall meeting , has elections . Folks who have indicated their interest in running for a position put out a statement to the fellow members beforehand so everyone knows whose running . Come vote time , the candidates are sequestered outside the room and a "show of hands" vote is conducted , run by the present officers and plainly visible to all except the candidates themselves . The candidates themselves are the only ones who don't vote as presumably each would be voting for themselves and present club officers are only allowed to vote if they themselves are not seeking re election to their post . I know it sounds kinda primitive but it has worked for the club since the 1960s and all appear to have no problem with how the elections run since the entire process is done in front of all .
To add a clarification , when the show of hands voting is for president , the presidential candidates only go out of the room . When the voting for VP happens , only the VP candidates go out of the room . And so on for all the other positions . You as a candidate for VP most certainly can vote for president , treasurer , etc . so the only position you don't get to vote for is the one your running for .
I know , I know , it sounds archaic , but it does work , likely better in actual practice than in my somewhat limited explaination of it ...
The club I belong to , at the fall meeting , has elections . Folks who have indicated their interest in running for a position put out a statement to the fellow members beforehand so everyone knows whose running . Come vote time , the candidates are sequestered outside the room and a "show of hands" vote is conducted , run by the present officers and plainly visible to all except the candidates themselves . The candidates themselves are the only ones who don't vote as presumably each would be voting for themselves and present club officers are only allowed to vote if they themselves are not seeking re election to their post . I know it sounds kinda primitive but it has worked for the club since the 1960s and all appear to have no problem with how the elections run since the entire process is done in front of all .
To add a clarification , when the show of hands voting is for president , the presidential candidates only go out of the room . When the voting for VP happens , only the VP candidates go out of the room . And so on for all the other positions . You as a candidate for VP most certainly can vote for president , treasurer , etc . so the only position you don't get to vote for is the one your running for .
I know , I know , it sounds archaic , but it does work , likely better in actual practice than in my somewhat limited explaination of it ...
Last edited by init4fun; 09-20-2016 at 09:04 AM. Reason: to add a clarification .....
09-20-2016, 09:29 AM
#67
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Especially if Rich is the one responsible for the 400 foot letter I really do hope he stays as govt. affairs representative if he does not win . I do believe he will win though , so we'll get to see if Chad & Travis can continue the good work that's already been done . So BTW you haven't yet told me , who do you think is gonna win , and what do you think the order of the rest of the votes will be ?
09-20-2016, 09:33 AM
#68
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How about Leader Member Bylaw questionnaires, should those be handled by an outside vendor as well, incurring yet more costs and fees?
The role being voted on pays nothing......what again would be the motive to cheat to get this coveted role, especially since one of the candidates is already collecting a six figure salary?
09-20-2016, 09:36 AM
#69
Banned
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As a proud member of the AMA's unwashed masses, those to be seen and not heard, I cast my ballot today. That said, I'm well aware that the same folks who will be counting ballots could be effected by the outcome, so I fully expect my vote will end up in the trash before it's counted.
09-20-2016, 09:43 AM
#70
Banned
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Hi Tim , Here's what I was getting at , and I hope you understand ;
Yes sir I do , I trust as an organization 100 % completely in the AMA . I wouldn't have been a member for 50 odd years if I didn't ....
Now , people on the other hand , people as individuals , I trust a good 95/98 ish % of . Not 100 % . No way no how . And that's based on years of seeing accumulated stories of people doing a very good job of hiding their bad character , the best example being these kindly friendly neighborhood good guy dudes who turn out to be serial killers or serial predators like that guy Sandusky who went to jail after hurting all those children all the while in the guise of "coach mr. nice guy" . Since neither You nor I or anybody else has a divining rod that will with 100 % certainty identify someone untrustworthy the entire civilized world is made up of checks & balances to attempt to thwart the ill intended . We , as members , have our checks & balances in the form I've already discussed . In times past , the AMA EC themselves saw fit to instill the check and balance of the outside count specifically to keep the integrity of the election at 100 % because they knew the old adage of "it only tales one bad apple ...." .
09-20-2016, 10:17 AM
#71
To better control the outcome, dearie.
09-20-2016, 10:22 AM
#73
Not having a go at you here, but I can't see the logic in saying on one hand you trust the AMA 100% as an organization, but then turn around and suggest they aren't trustworthy of counting ballots and that task should be paid for by an outside agency. Yes, I see the comments about "people", but the AMA is made up of people, not some nameless and faceless entity that operates in a vacuum. If you don't have trust in one, you can't have it with the other.
09-20-2016, 10:22 AM
#74
Hi Tim , Here's what I was getting at , and I hope you understand ;
Yes sir I do , I trust as an organization 100 % completely in the AMA . I wouldn't have been a member for 50 odd years if I didn't ....
Now , people on the other hand , people as individuals , I trust a good 95/98 ish % of . Not 100 % . No way no how . And that's based on years of seeing accumulated stories of people doing a very good job of hiding their bad character , the best example being these kindly friendly neighborhood good guy dudes who turn out to be serial killers or serial predators like that guy Sandusky who went to jail after hurting all those children all the while in the guise of "coach mr. nice guy" . Since neither You nor I or anybody else has a divining rod that will with 100 % certainty identify someone untrustworthy the entire civilized world is made up of checks & balances to attempt to thwart the ill intended . We , as members , have our checks & balances in the form I've already discussed . In times past , the AMA EC themselves saw fit to instill the check and balance of the outside count specifically to keep the integrity of the election at 100 % because they knew the old adage of "it only tales one bad apple ...." .
09-20-2016, 10:23 AM
#75