While AMA talks, FAA acts...
01-10-2019 | 08:10 AM
#176
Banned
As I have said before if you’re not a creditor, supplier, member or have business before the AMA the financials and day to day running of the corporation is none of your or my business and no one should care one iota what your opinion is.
When you pontificate that all members are being taken advantage of and their money being mishandled who gave you the authority to speak on their behalf. How did you come to represent the views of the membership when you yourself are not a member?
If there were anything illegal I am sure guys like Franklin would be all over it like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
I believe your constitution delves into rights not privileges. You might want to look up the difference on Google.
Rights are yours by birth and even they can be removed. Martial Law suspends certain rights and the right to bare arms is suspended for felons.
On the other hand privileges such as driving a car, flying a full size plane, flying models etc. are all privileges and can be suspended/changed without infringing on any of your rights.
Last post on the subject!!!!!!!
This is what I see happening (my opinion only) The FAA comes out with a baseline set of rules for everyone. (this is the simplest way to get things done, no multiple categories).
The FAA reserves the right to grant waivers to the general rules. Remember this is a privilege not a right. The AMA petitions the FAA for a waiver for its members only. This waiver is granted after the FAA and AMA agree on mode and area of operations.
Results are simple, except for AMA members all others will have to adhere to the baseline set of rules or be in violation and be held accountable. Being an AMA member is not a free ride either. If you operate outside of the AMA guidelines you to will have to follow the baseline rules.
Let’s see how close my opinion is to the final draft.
When you pontificate that all members are being taken advantage of and their money being mishandled who gave you the authority to speak on their behalf. How did you come to represent the views of the membership when you yourself are not a member?
If there were anything illegal I am sure guys like Franklin would be all over it like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
I believe your constitution delves into rights not privileges. You might want to look up the difference on Google.
Rights are yours by birth and even they can be removed. Martial Law suspends certain rights and the right to bare arms is suspended for felons.
On the other hand privileges such as driving a car, flying a full size plane, flying models etc. are all privileges and can be suspended/changed without infringing on any of your rights.
Last post on the subject!!!!!!!
This is what I see happening (my opinion only) The FAA comes out with a baseline set of rules for everyone. (this is the simplest way to get things done, no multiple categories).
The FAA reserves the right to grant waivers to the general rules. Remember this is a privilege not a right. The AMA petitions the FAA for a waiver for its members only. This waiver is granted after the FAA and AMA agree on mode and area of operations.
Results are simple, except for AMA members all others will have to adhere to the baseline set of rules or be in violation and be held accountable. Being an AMA member is not a free ride either. If you operate outside of the AMA guidelines you to will have to follow the baseline rules.
Let’s see how close my opinion is to the final draft.
And a lecture on rights and privileges does nothing but show how little you know about me.
01-10-2019 | 08:28 AM
#177
Banned
They may not have those figures, which is all they would really need to say. Giving a list of major events held at the site the previous year would also give a ballpark idea of usage. The fact they have either ignored the request or refused to answer it says more than either of the other two options would have in that the usage probably doesn't come close to meeting what was originally envisioned when the site was established.
One thing that does stick out, to me anyway, is the statement made by Speed, that being " If I remember correctly the main reason for the move to Muncie was to have a site for the Nats. The Nats is a big deal, maybe not to you but then again not being a member your not invited to participate." has me questioning why it was needed to begin with.
Both NAMBA and IMPBA hold national events each year, without the need for an organization owned site with facilities. Since both organization's events require bodies of water large enough to allow for a race course at least 130 feet wide and at least 250 feet long to meet the minimum course size requirements, that means planning must be started at least a year in advance. Near by hotels and campgrounds, food and transportation all have to be taken into account. An even larger event is the National Square and Folk Dance Convention that, just like the boating nationals, moves around the country each year. This internationally attended event routinely has a minimum of 3500 active participants but has had in excess of 25,000 at times. Venues chosen to host this event have to have multiple halls large enough to have several hundred dancers able to comfortably dance with at least two halls capable of allowing several thousand dancers at once. Once again, food, lodging and transportation must be capable of handling the crowds of people, as well as vendors that set up stores on site. The fact that these three organizations can hold large events in different parts of the country every year and the AMA can't kind of shows the AMA isn't as progressive as it thinks it is
One thing that does stick out, to me anyway, is the statement made by Speed, that being " If I remember correctly the main reason for the move to Muncie was to have a site for the Nats. The Nats is a big deal, maybe not to you but then again not being a member your not invited to participate." has me questioning why it was needed to begin with.
Both NAMBA and IMPBA hold national events each year, without the need for an organization owned site with facilities. Since both organization's events require bodies of water large enough to allow for a race course at least 130 feet wide and at least 250 feet long to meet the minimum course size requirements, that means planning must be started at least a year in advance. Near by hotels and campgrounds, food and transportation all have to be taken into account. An even larger event is the National Square and Folk Dance Convention that, just like the boating nationals, moves around the country each year. This internationally attended event routinely has a minimum of 3500 active participants but has had in excess of 25,000 at times. Venues chosen to host this event have to have multiple halls large enough to have several hundred dancers able to comfortably dance with at least two halls capable of allowing several thousand dancers at once. Once again, food, lodging and transportation must be capable of handling the crowds of people, as well as vendors that set up stores on site. The fact that these three organizations can hold large events in different parts of the country every year and the AMA can't kind of shows the AMA isn't as progressive as it thinks it is
Some of these venues were military installations. This fostered a relationship between the hobby and DoD. And introduced tens of thousands of military to the hobby. Many clubs were hosted on bases around the world. Not as much anymore.
Not too many years ago the Model Yacht Association held their national regatta (NATS) for the 'J' class in the Chesapeake in Maryland. Now these boats get to 100 inches long, 10 foot masts and weigh up to 100 pounds. They sailed literally for miles on the Chesapeake with full size traffic out there. And it was all organized by a single club. And BTW, this particular regatta moves year to year from the east coast to Chicago to the west coast to San Antonio, Texas and back to the east. A dozen or more of these boats will show up.
01-10-2019 | 08:35 AM
#178
As I have said before if you’re not a creditor, supplier, member or have business before the AMA the financials and day to day running of the corporation is none of your or my business and no one should care one iota what your opinion is.
No one cares about yours either then since, as a Canadian, you have no say as to what happens in this country just like I don't in Canada. Then again, you have the right, apparently, to get traffic tickets in the US and not pay them since, in Washington State alone, there are outstanding traffic tickets, written to Canadian offenders, totaling several million US dollars
When you pontificate that all members are being taken advantage of and their money being mishandled who gave you the authority to speak on their behalf. How did you come to represent the views of the membership when you yourself are not a member?
I gave me the authority since most don't give a damn about what is being done in Muncie. If they did, the officer's election last year would have had more than 30% participation
If there were anything illegal I am sure guys like Franklin would be all over it like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
He is all over it, like an F-18 pilot on an attack run
I believe your constitution delves into rights not privileges. You might want to look up the difference on Google.
Rights are yours by birth and even they can be removed. Martial Law suspends certain rights and the right to bare arms is suspended for felons.
My right of freedom of speech says I have the right to call out the AMA officers and staff as much as I want.
On the other hand privileges such as driving a car, flying a full size plane, flying models etc. are all privileges and can be suspended/changed without infringing on any of your rights.
The privileges you listed all require a license to do, except for the model planes. A license can be revoked for failure to follow the laws, not arbitrarily taken away without cause
Last post on the subject!!!!!!!
This is what I see happening (my opinion only) The FAA comes out with a baseline set of rules for everyone. (this is the simplest way to get things done, no multiple categories).
The FAA reserves the right to grant waivers to the general rules. Remember this is a privilege not a right. The AMA petitions the FAA for a waiver for its members only. This waiver is granted after the FAA and AMA agree on mode and area of operations.
Results are simple, except for AMA members all others will have to adhere to the baseline set of rules or be in violation and be held accountable. Being an AMA member is not a free ride either. If you operate outside of the AMA guidelines you to will have to follow the baseline rules.
Let’s see how close my opinion is to the final draft.
No one cares about yours either then since, as a Canadian, you have no say as to what happens in this country just like I don't in Canada. Then again, you have the right, apparently, to get traffic tickets in the US and not pay them since, in Washington State alone, there are outstanding traffic tickets, written to Canadian offenders, totaling several million US dollars
When you pontificate that all members are being taken advantage of and their money being mishandled who gave you the authority to speak on their behalf. How did you come to represent the views of the membership when you yourself are not a member?
I gave me the authority since most don't give a damn about what is being done in Muncie. If they did, the officer's election last year would have had more than 30% participation
If there were anything illegal I am sure guys like Franklin would be all over it like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
He is all over it, like an F-18 pilot on an attack run
I believe your constitution delves into rights not privileges. You might want to look up the difference on Google.
Rights are yours by birth and even they can be removed. Martial Law suspends certain rights and the right to bare arms is suspended for felons.
My right of freedom of speech says I have the right to call out the AMA officers and staff as much as I want.
On the other hand privileges such as driving a car, flying a full size plane, flying models etc. are all privileges and can be suspended/changed without infringing on any of your rights.
The privileges you listed all require a license to do, except for the model planes. A license can be revoked for failure to follow the laws, not arbitrarily taken away without cause
Last post on the subject!!!!!!!
This is what I see happening (my opinion only) The FAA comes out with a baseline set of rules for everyone. (this is the simplest way to get things done, no multiple categories).
The FAA reserves the right to grant waivers to the general rules. Remember this is a privilege not a right. The AMA petitions the FAA for a waiver for its members only. This waiver is granted after the FAA and AMA agree on mode and area of operations.
Results are simple, except for AMA members all others will have to adhere to the baseline set of rules or be in violation and be held accountable. Being an AMA member is not a free ride either. If you operate outside of the AMA guidelines you to will have to follow the baseline rules.
Let’s see how close my opinion is to the final draft.
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-10-2019 at 02:10 PM.
01-10-2019 | 09:16 AM
#179
Looked like 3 guys were setting up the confrontation.
One guy already in place video taping as the other two pull up in a pickup.
The two hop out and remove what looks like a very expensive mutirotor and proceeds to take off and circle and fly over some navy ship docked.
Two shore patrol come over and ask them to stop and they in no uncertain terms tell them they are flying from a public park and they have every right to do what they are doing.
Shore patrol calls the police and 2 cars show up.
Officers ask them to stop they get the same response.
Officers attempt to reason with them.
Pilot lands then gets in the officers face loudly talking about rights meanwhile constantly moving so the person videotaping can get the shot.
Finally the officer tells the pilot the equipment is being confiscated and picks up the radio and mutirotor and puts it in the trunk of the cop car.
After more discussion and when the pilot realizes hes not getting his stuff back he asks the officer if he can at least turn the stuff off.
The officer with a grin says no you had your chance to cooperate you can apply to get it back from evidence after court now let me see some id.
The pilot goes ballistic refuses to produce id the officer places him under arrest and puts him in the same car as his equipment.
The other officer get in and proceeds to drive away.
The two guys left tell the officer they have this all on camera and want his name and badge which he gives them.
The officer then tells them they can get in their truck and leave. SILENCE!!!!!!!!!!! Ah our buddy has the keys.
The officer asks then you guys can't move that truck? noooooooooooo
The next shot is the wrecker towing the truck away while its obvious the two are walking backwards out of the park.
Screaming about your rights doesn't always cut it best video I have seen in a long time. LOL really wish I could have found it so I could post it for ya!!!!!
Last edited by Propworn; 01-10-2019 at 09:18 AM.
01-10-2019 | 10:14 AM
#181
My Feedback: (15)
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...0#post40884675
prop might want to talk to his fellow canadians in that thread, and try to alleviate some of their fears...
prop might want to talk to his fellow canadians in that thread, and try to alleviate some of their fears...
01-10-2019 | 10:33 AM
#182
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?3201339-Canada-new-laws&perpage=50#post40884675
prop might want to talk to his fellow canadians in that thread, and try to alleviate some of their fears...
prop might want to talk to his fellow canadians in that thread, and try to alleviate some of their fears...
01-10-2019 | 04:47 PM
#185
My Feedback: (29)
Ok. I Will address the need for a stationary venue for the Nats. Yes it is more cost effective to have it at the same venue each year. Not only from an organizational point of Veiw, there are also a ton on volunteer staff that need to be organized and there are huge equipment issues. Shipping things such as sailplane winches, batteries, generators, timing devices, sighting devices, turn lights, turn buzzers, pylon cages etc. out to multiple sites would be a huge expense not to mention trying to find staff that knows how to set up and operate the equipment. The equipment I mentioned are for just two events, R/C Soaring and R/C pylon.
Now, let's take just one single event for an example. Other then Muncie, what other flying site in the country has the facilities to host R/C Soaring? We are talking room to set up a minimum of 6 winches, landing area for 12 + landing tapes, have parking available for 150-200 vehicles of which 20+ will be motor homes and have a flying area of close to a square mile?
Now, let's take just one single event for an example. Other then Muncie, what other flying site in the country has the facilities to host R/C Soaring? We are talking room to set up a minimum of 6 winches, landing area for 12 + landing tapes, have parking available for 150-200 vehicles of which 20+ will be motor homes and have a flying area of close to a square mile?
01-11-2019 | 05:13 AM
#186
Banned
01-11-2019 | 07:24 AM
#187
Ok. I Will address the need for a stationary venue for the Nats. Yes it is more cost effective to have it at the same venue each year. Not only from an organizational point of Veiw, there are also a ton on volunteer staff that need to be organized and there are huge equipment issues. Shipping things such as sailplane winches, batteries, generators, timing devices, sighting devices, turn lights, turn buzzers, pylon cages etc. out to multiple sites would be a huge expense not to mention trying to find staff that knows how to set up and operate the equipment. The equipment I mentioned are for just two events, R/C Soaring and R/C pylon.
Now, let's take just one single event for an example. Other then Muncie, what other flying site in the country has the facilities to host R/C Soaring? We are talking room to set up a minimum of 6 winches, landing area for 12 + landing tapes, have parking available for 150-200 vehicles of which 20+ will be motor homes and have a flying area of close to a square mile?
Now, let's take just one single event for an example. Other then Muncie, what other flying site in the country has the facilities to host R/C Soaring? We are talking room to set up a minimum of 6 winches, landing area for 12 + landing tapes, have parking available for 150-200 vehicles of which 20+ will be motor homes and have a flying area of close to a square mile?
As far as volunteers, it takes HUNDREDS to handle a convention that hosts THOUSANDS. To get around the training problem you mentioned, the dancers found a simple solution. As volunteers are assigned to their committees, they are requested to help out at one or two conventions prior to the one they will be running. After their first convention, they are expected to help train those that will be running later conventions.
This summer's convention, in Marietta Georgia, already has 3050 registered dancers. They are coming from all points of the US and abroad, so far accounting for 49 states, Australia, Austria, Canada, China, Germany, Japan, Netherlands and the Philippine Islands, with almost six months left before the convention starts. Gee, are your events starting to sound small? As for RV's, the convention staff had reserved an entire campground with 344 spaces. That makes it sad to see you panicking over maybe 20. As far as hotels, they have sold out six of nine in the area, leaving only 238 rooms still available.
After typing all of the solutions the dancers have come up with, it seems to me that a bunch of "old hill billy dancers" have made the AMA's excuses look foolish.
As far as finding an area that can handle a national flying event, Redmond Washington's Marymoor Park can handle the requirements you listed for a flying field. The park has a flying area and, all told, the park covers almost 700 acres. There is plenty of parking though some is a bit of a walk. There are campgrounds in the area as well though, IIRC, dry camping on site is discouraged in the park.
Another site that is ideal for gliders is Fort Casey, on Whidbey Island. One of the local gliding clubs flies there quite often as the winds that come down the Straight of Juan De Fuca and lift are ideal. Since they normally fly over Admiralty Inlet, instead of land, there isn't any one in the flying area and, when it comes time to land, there is a large grass field that can be used located nearby, behind the gun casements. There is a campground on site, plenty of parking, army barracks that can be rented out for lodging, all within walking distance to the windward side of the park. Have I destroyed your arguments yet? I've found working and proven solutions to all your issue that eliminate them and turn them into excuses. Once again, your excuses don't hold water
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-11-2019 at 07:57 AM.
01-11-2019 | 08:06 AM
#188
My Feedback: (29)
First off your square dancing examples are pointless. Way more popular then R/C competition so yes it stands to reason that it would also be easier to get the required people and venues. Your suggestion of a flying field looks really good however for R/C events it is not suitable. For pattern with the number of contestants, 4 flight lines need to be run simultaneously. We typically run 2 flight lines at local contests and that requires a minimum of a 400' runway. IMAC is pretty much the same flightline requirement but Im sure you saw the 90db sound limit the field has ( possible waiver though ). As of right now that sound limit will eliminate R/C pylon, IMAC and most likely scale. The satellite image Imwas able to look up would indicate that there is not enough grass real estate to set up 6 winches and have 12 landing tapes. Winches and tapes require 10 yard separation. I see no area where CL circles can be placed. I don't know how many would be required as I have never done that event. I imagine 3 minimum. The sound issue would affect the CL guys as well. Dave, do us all a favor and do your homework before calling things excuses. In this case you simply don't have the knowledge to do so.
01-11-2019 | 08:32 AM
#190
Banned
01-11-2019 | 08:40 AM
#191
My Feedback: (29)
So you admit that you are nothing but empty threats and you have no balls? Truth is I know you did not report and you will not report. That would end you whole BS game. Right now you can keep up the front with you master, after you make that call and the FAA tells you there is currently no 400' limit you would have no case.
01-11-2019 | 08:44 AM
#192
Banned
So you admit that you are nothing but empty threats and you have no balls? Truth is I know you did not report and you will not report. That would end you whole BS game. Right now you can keep up the front with you master, after you make that call and the FAA tells you there is currently no 400' limit you would have no case.
Now, if you can't stick to the thread topic, maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself.
Last edited by Appowner; 01-11-2019 at 08:47 AM.
01-11-2019 | 08:51 AM
#193
I call things excuses when it fits. Since you just admitted you've never helped set up or run a competition, you don't have a clue as to any of the logistics or anything else.
I, on the other hand, have been involved in setting up national boating competitions and state square dance festivals that are still larger than your so called nationals.
90 db is an issue? My boats have to be at less than 90 dbs as well or they will be disqualified from competition. When you consider that I run all CMB .67s in my boats with 50% nitro fuel at up to 28,000 rpm, you would think that would be an issue, but it's not. If the planes can't get down to 90, it's time to change something, either the muffler/pipe or the prop.
Obviously, you didn't look at Fort Casey. There's plenty of room for everything needed to fly gliders in competition.
I, on the other hand, have been involved in setting up national boating competitions and state square dance festivals that are still larger than your so called nationals.
90 db is an issue? My boats have to be at less than 90 dbs as well or they will be disqualified from competition. When you consider that I run all CMB .67s in my boats with 50% nitro fuel at up to 28,000 rpm, you would think that would be an issue, but it's not. If the planes can't get down to 90, it's time to change something, either the muffler/pipe or the prop.
Obviously, you didn't look at Fort Casey. There's plenty of room for everything needed to fly gliders in competition.
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-11-2019 at 08:54 AM.
01-11-2019 | 09:15 AM
#195
My Feedback: (29)
I call things excuses when it fits. Since you just admitted you've never helped set up or run a competition, you don't have a clue as to any of the logistics or anything else.
I, on the other hand, have been involved in setting up national boating competitions and state square dance festivals that are still larger than your so called nationals.
90 db is an issue? My boats have to be at less than 90 dbs as well or they will be disqualified from competition. When you consider that I run all CMB .67s in my boats with 50% nitro fuel at up to 28,000 rpm, you would think that would be an issue, but it's not. If the planes can't get down to 90, it's time to change something, either the muffler/pipe or the prop.
Obviously, you didn't look at Fort Casey. There's plenty of room for everything needed to fly gliders in competition.
I, on the other hand, have been involved in setting up national boating competitions and state square dance festivals that are still larger than your so called nationals.
90 db is an issue? My boats have to be at less than 90 dbs as well or they will be disqualified from competition. When you consider that I run all CMB .67s in my boats with 50% nitro fuel at up to 28,000 rpm, you would think that would be an issue, but it's not. If the planes can't get down to 90, it's time to change something, either the muffler/pipe or the prop.
Obviously, you didn't look at Fort Casey. There's plenty of room for everything needed to fly gliders in competition.
Those of us with technical experience will tell you that with airplanes a great deal of noise comes from the prop. Your little .67 with a full length muffled pipe is certainly going to be far easier to keep under 90db then a 150cc to 200cc on mufflers with a 32" prop. Again get some knowledge there pal. Yes equipment can be changed but you are talking about the AMA spending money to have the Nats in Muncie as opposed to somewhere else that would require the participants to invest in different equipment ( money ) to do so. How stupid is that?
01-11-2019 | 09:55 AM
#196
Damn dude, you just don't get it.
Let someone else run the events at different locations and supply the equipment. The AMA saves money that way
You say square dancing is more popular than R./C modeling? You obviously don't dance. The activity has the same problem modeling does, everyone wants instant gratification so new dancers are hard to come by, especially when you consider that it takes 20 weeks worth of lessons just to be at the lowest level of the activity. There are clubs folding every month due to lack of participation or nothing left in the treasury. Besides that, the AMA says they have well over 100K members. I seriously doubt there are that many dancers in the country. That being the case, how is it that a convention of and for dancers can get people to volunteer yet the AMA's 100K+ can't get enough to hold an event anywhere but Muncie? Sorry dude, I'm just not buying that. Either Muncie is lying about the number of members and it's significantly lower than they are leading you to believe or they are lying about what it takes to set up a competition so that anyone wanting to compete has to go to Muncie. Personally, I think both are true. I also think you are being the good little leader member and drinking their lies as gospel without questioning anything. Hell, I'd be all over Muncie over this one if I was you, that is unless your leader member title is too fragile to let you do so
Let someone else run the events at different locations and supply the equipment. The AMA saves money that way
You say square dancing is more popular than R./C modeling? You obviously don't dance. The activity has the same problem modeling does, everyone wants instant gratification so new dancers are hard to come by, especially when you consider that it takes 20 weeks worth of lessons just to be at the lowest level of the activity. There are clubs folding every month due to lack of participation or nothing left in the treasury. Besides that, the AMA says they have well over 100K members. I seriously doubt there are that many dancers in the country. That being the case, how is it that a convention of and for dancers can get people to volunteer yet the AMA's 100K+ can't get enough to hold an event anywhere but Muncie? Sorry dude, I'm just not buying that. Either Muncie is lying about the number of members and it's significantly lower than they are leading you to believe or they are lying about what it takes to set up a competition so that anyone wanting to compete has to go to Muncie. Personally, I think both are true. I also think you are being the good little leader member and drinking their lies as gospel without questioning anything. Hell, I'd be all over Muncie over this one if I was you, that is unless your leader member title is too fragile to let you do so
01-11-2019 | 03:02 PM
#199
01-11-2019 | 04:46 PM
#200
Received this letter today from the President of MAAC. In fact every member received the notice. Pretty well as I thought one set of rules with an exemption for MAAC members only. I predict the same or very similar for flyers in the US one rule for all and a waiver for AMA members. The irony of it all is under the reciprocal agreement though I am not an AMA member or a US citizen I will be able to fly at any AMA field and under the same waiver as any AMA member while you non members will be stuck with the hard and fast rules. LOL
Letter - AARV - MAAC - 2019-01-09.pdf
Last edited by Propworn; 01-11-2019 at 04:50 PM.
