Although there have been some minor changes to the AMA site, major change has not taken place. What is the value of the AMA site? How much money should be spent on it to insure a first class site, if any?

Many companys and news organizations try to use the web as an enticement to get people to purchase the hard copy publications. This is wrong, The publication needs to be released as a duel media offering. Until this happens, it will continue to be a second rate site.

As far as money is concerned, the investment should be minimal. Most desktop publishing software is browser compatible. The key will be to lock the server down so that passwords are needed to access the data.

As of mid-September, no one individual was in charge of the website. Different individuals are responsible for updating different information. Perhaps I am wrong, but from nothing said explicitly, but having been implied, I believe the problem is money. How much is a first class webmaster worth, if anything? It is not a matter of potential content, but a matter of managing the content.

Is the site acceptable in it's current form?

Basically a web master maintains the website.
WHat is needed is a content manager or a content publisher.
Even if they used Dot Net Nuke to format the site and run it, there would still need to be a person or persons to maintain the information. To me, this information needs to intially be the same as that which is in MA. This can be expanded to be more in the future.

I thought JR was talking about the AMA site, not the MA portion.

You are 100% correct.
I stand corrected.

Geistware, it’s probably my ineptness. Edit: Definately was my ineptness. I changed the title to the thread to AMA website, as it should have been to begin with. Sorry.

There is much more to the website than just MA. On the other hand, the promise of updating the digital archives of MA to include more recent issues has not been forgotten.

I know that part of Don Koranda’s vision for the website is to use it as an extension of, an expansion on, the content contained in MA. That is just part of the vision. Being able to put forth considerably more information to the membership… more than can possibly be contained in any magazine is part of the vision.

Already parts of the site contain much more than is in MA on different topics. Information about insurance, club organization, tax structure, material for clubs to use in their newsletters, Sport Aviator, and on and on.

Is the benefit to the clubs, and membership of the AMA, worth the dollars it would cost to make it a first class site where the information might be put in a more accessible format? Koranda, in his columns, has made it apparent that he believes some programs need to change. Is a major change in the website worth a heavy investment of scarce dollars? Is a great website worth a major shift in spending?

What other services should be increased? Which decreased or discontinued?

JR
What are you trying to prove. One day you will fall of the fence and I would hate to see you get hurt[&o]

I thought it might be interesting to discuss a topic that is actually facing the ED and the EC. One where some fresh input might sway the decision. One where real money will or will not be spent, depending on the outcome of the discussion at higher levels than those of us participating in this forum normally take part in.

If you would rather discuss the lineage of other posters, perhaps a change of venue is appropriate. If, on the other hand, you are in the majority, perhaps it is I who should reaccess.

>>"What is the value?"<<<

Interesting question since the question is relative to far too many things and persons. In what respect do you mean / place 'value'?

As far as the web site now, I think it is first class. The AMA Web site has all the information that anyone needs to be a very learned individual about AMA operations. The AMA Web site is fast, and very easy to navigate even by one not a computer wizard, such as I.

To try for additional bells and whistles just to spend money is, IMO, a very foolish waste of resources. The web is valuable as the tool it is. It serves its purpose very well. At this time in space, with a dwindling membership, AMA has far more important and demanding problems than a show-and-tell web site.

From a site content, each department should have the responsibility for it's pertinent content. With that said, each AVP should contribute information for their district to ensure that the site remains beneficial to all members. The key has to be information flow. Just updating the site with information in the south metro Atlanta area would be valuable to some, doing this concept for every metro area would make it beneficial to most.

Maybe it's a means of trying to communicate to a growing population that thinks trying to get information on a website is superior to printed paper?

Now that I finally got back to the original proposition . . .

Enough money should be spent that at the very least the web site can be corrected in something resembling a timely fashion.

I've been working with the Head Shed folks almost six months now, trying to get all the District V Chartered Club web sites' links corrected.

Got it down to one last club with a bad link, and of course more important matters have overridden the club links page.

You'd think that getting this little corner of the AMA web site would be somewhat important . . . . it is after all how interested parties go about _finding_ chartered clubs in their neck of the woods . . .

$0.37, adjusted for inflation.

>>>>>>>
If AMA is behind on club mail lists/links/whatever, that is the club's fault. Many Club Officers simply do not make the changes and forward to AMA. While most do a good job, the 20% that don't make life less than easy for you that try to get things organized.

Blame the guilty and do not blame the innocent. If you leave the keys in the car, it's no license for some 'SOBee' to steal the car regardless of what the bleeding-hearts say. [&o]

Not surprisingly, I suppose, I rate the AMA site as substandard.

If we assume that the purpose of having an AMA website is to promote areomodeling, as the bylaws state is the purpose of the AMA, it does a poor job. Some quick examples.

A search engine that was state of the art 15 years ago is not now.
No site map.
Information is not current. Examples. (1) As of a few minutes ago, the picture of the current issue of MA on the main page is not the current issue. If one follows links, it goes to the current issue. (2) Competition information is not updated as frequently as some districts update from the same info. D 8 handled by Bill Lee is always on the leading edge. (3) Club locator is still a poor second to that maintained by Bill Lee on the D 8 site. (4)District sites are not created equal. I think my DVP, Rich Hansen, does as good a job on the EC representing his district as anyone. He also maintains a terrible website. I have felt for a long time that it is HQ's responsibility to make certain that district sites are well done... thus providing the promotion of areomodeling in each district. (5) The members only section sucks. Committee assignments are not updated. Although someone implied that Doug Holland was in some way responsible for not posting the most current audit, I have an e-mail from someone else that accepts responsibility for not posting it with a reason. Unfortunately, I do not have permission to post the e-mail or the reason.

The site is a wonderful repository of information. It is not easy to access, or even find, many historical postings.

This list goes on and on. Many on the EC agree that the site is substandard as does the ED. The question is just how much of AMA resources should be dedicated to it and what is it's actual ability to disseminate information in the interest of advancing modeling.

My only complaint is that the members only link requires that your computer accept cookies. The computer I use is on a company firewall that rejects cookies. Gives me coniptions when trying to contact vendors to locate components. Our local MORDAC (ref Dilbert "Preventor of information services) rejects many of our engineering department requests.

Um . . . not.

These errors were typos in the html of the links themselves, not something the club submitted.

AMA (Lois Pierce) has had the corrections for several months. The problem is neither the club's fault nor is it Lois' fault.

The problem is that there is no web master, but there should be. The EC directed that the web site get spruced up quite a while back, and the staff simply hasn't got a roundtuit.

It's not like the staff isn't busy changing directions to suit the new ED or anything.

Do any of the staff members even have anytraining or experience in web site set-up or maintenance?

Fred,

As I understand, the EC wants to spruce the site up. Additionally, the job of webmaster has been approved since before Joyce Hager asked to be reassigned. It has not been filled. It's hard to get hard numbers. I think some on the EC swallowed at some of the numbers floated out to them regarding the overall costs of a first class site. I suspect this was a hot topic at the Sept 30 budget meeting in Muncie by the EC although I have heard nothing since before the meeting. I bet the full EC meeting in October 15 brings more discussion.

I guess it is a lot easier to vote about funds spent on tangible items like real estate or site enhancements at Muncie where you can touch them. It's pretty hard to touch the benefits that a first class website might bring. Is it worth $50,000? $100,000? $200,000? or more?

Could such a site provide information to help governmental bodies make decisions about modeling? Could it help individuals trying to decide whether to join the AMA (and maybe show that the AMA is more than insurance)?

Just what can a website do and what is it's value to "far too many things and persons". That is the question that is asked and must be answered. It can not be trivialized or ignored and the EC must decide.

If you ask me, a potential website improvement is going in the wrong direction.

The "big" AMA problem is cost/membership(revenue)...too much of one, not enough of the other.

So if the website does not either 1.) lower costs, or 2.) increase membership, we do not need it.

We already got a new big salaried position when we got the new ED, so we need even more members to pay for that, and last time I looked membership was in decline

I am all for increased value to members (for retention) but I think once you have got a member, you are about 90% through the battle, it is getting them to sign up in the first place, that is the problem.

The flip side is the cost side, as I have said before they need to jettison costs while they can still plan there way through it, instead of after a meltdown.

BTW, can anyone confirm that the word "incumbent" is not on the ballot?

If you are looking for funds, they are right under the EC's nose. However the AMA Membership will not force the EC to get off center and accomplish things.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Previously posted:

For example, AMA spent $2,026,479 in 2004 to send you the Model Aviation magazine. They spent $857,549 to PRODUCE the advertising of which they collected only $914,857, profit of a measly $57,308, to go toward the overall cost of that magazine.
The net result was that $1,168,738 of your dues money was spent to provide a nest for EIGHT persons with a new position to be opened as soon as M. Ramsey arrives from Flying Models to become the new MA Associate Editor. A ninth person is also on staff, however his salary is from the advertising schedule of MA, a nice $132, 583 for a stay-at-home job.

Now combine the loss -- member dues expense -- of $1,168,738 in direct costs for the magazine and that 8 persons, soon to be nine, are employed to do the labor, with their salaries buried in the total salary/benefits of the total AMA workforce. Using that amount and that the MA staff consists of about 16% of the total staff, I estimate that the MA staff costs some $465,000.

The above 2004 Audit figures indicate the magazine MA costs some $$1,633,738 or $359,166 MORE than the $1,274,572 for Member Insurance.

Now you tell me that AMA is just an Insurance company! AMA is well on its way to becoming a PUBLICATION company with YOU as the investor non-dividend stockholder. [>:]

<<<<<<

Just raise the ad. rates to Industry Standard. 175,000 distribution can demand competitive rates. Then have yourself a couple FIRST CLASS web sites.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32...2/key_/tm.htm#


Horrace, you have become quite the commensurate politician. You just ignore the questions posed to you and continue to spout rhetoric.

Memberships without cost. Non-negotiable advertising rates. Allegations made a year ago go unexplained.

Ye-haa. You really have come a long way.

JR, on the same page you quote I also posted >>>>>
MA ad rates ARE a bargain. The only stipulation that I am aware of is that profits on an unrelated business enterprise of an IRC 501(c)(3) organization are taxable. The usual argument that the ad income profit is taxable, so there should be no profit, is about as big a folly as your searching for tidbits and taking items out of text / discussions to favor points that you do not really understand and/or comprehend. As for myself I wish I were paying billions in taxes each year. I certainly would have some change left over to buy some beer and beans. [8D]

There are few absolutes in this world. Einstein said there are only two in the universe, speed of light and change, and at times he was unsure of the speed of light. Now there are many other theories surfacing about the expansion of the universe, so it all only goes to display that in each and every theory the "experts" just may well be missing something along the way.

There may be one other absolute and that is that the JR here is greatly misinformed of several "truths" which he expounds here and I found a big one of those at the AMA Grand Event in Waco, TX in August. [X(] Don't ask as this will not be revealed as I respect certain privacies.

Answering questions with questions are not answers, at least not in my book.

I have never claimed to be a publishing expert. I specifically stated that when I did the original analysis that lead you to take that analysis as fact and they to take it as your own, after I had sent e-mails to determine advertising rates by other magazines and publish some here. Additional questions were raised by others. The questions remain unanswered. All of this is still in this forum for others to see if they wish to track it down, including your privious position that the subscription rate of $18 per AMA member, taken from the masthead page of MA in 2003 should have been used in the accounting for MA.

If a conservative membership number of 130,000 adults were used with your contention, that would add $2,340,000 to the revenue of MA and make a rather substantial change to your now changed analysis. Of course, that no longer fits your purpose. Again, its all in this forum for those to see that wish to take the time, or those that were here at the time to verifiy.

You have still never admitted that your original contention was wrong that that the subscriptions were accounted for properly under standard accounting principles.

Note: key words for those searching might include "unrelated business"

If the AMA is going to focus on its website as its communication tool, perhaps there should be tiered membership rates, with lower rates for those members not online.