Important information????
10-30-2005 | 07:19 PM
#101
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From: Corona, CA,
RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: slg1
Where in my post did I say I was owed something? I have said many times, I DO NOT want to intrude on anyones flying time. You post things verifying the feeling that new flyers have when going to clubs. As in drawing straws, a badly built plane etcetera. Again, you must have been perfect the first time out. As far as helping the club, I am willing and able to help in many areas. However, I DID pay for something when I paid my dues. Seems you think a new person not only has to pay dues but must pay some sort of homage to the "experienced" people. What do you expect, that I come to the field with brooms and shovels and cleaning equipment, prior to getting some help? This isnt the Karate Kid. Teh club is expecting dues from people who join, my question is, how is the club helping them feel welcomed and in turn getting help with the field and any other areas they may need assistance in. Your's is the idea that they pay and we'll help them when we feel like it. That will not fly and anyone with a bit of common sense will know that. The local club here has pushed so many people away, that many go to a dry lake bed to fly and the atmosphere is wonderful. Everyone is helpful. I am not the only one who has this opinion here, as the amount of people who come the the lake bed have the same story. Pompous, rude and cranky club people who just want everyone else to go away. As I have read through many other forums here, this is a growing sentiment everywhere. Club people need to realize this. Especially in western stated where there is plenty of land to go and fly without feeling you are intruding on the 'established' folks. Open your arms to the new people, they will respond.
Where in my post did I say I was owed something? I have said many times, I DO NOT want to intrude on anyones flying time. You post things verifying the feeling that new flyers have when going to clubs. As in drawing straws, a badly built plane etcetera. Again, you must have been perfect the first time out. As far as helping the club, I am willing and able to help in many areas. However, I DID pay for something when I paid my dues. Seems you think a new person not only has to pay dues but must pay some sort of homage to the "experienced" people. What do you expect, that I come to the field with brooms and shovels and cleaning equipment, prior to getting some help? This isnt the Karate Kid. Teh club is expecting dues from people who join, my question is, how is the club helping them feel welcomed and in turn getting help with the field and any other areas they may need assistance in. Your's is the idea that they pay and we'll help them when we feel like it. That will not fly and anyone with a bit of common sense will know that. The local club here has pushed so many people away, that many go to a dry lake bed to fly and the atmosphere is wonderful. Everyone is helpful. I am not the only one who has this opinion here, as the amount of people who come the the lake bed have the same story. Pompous, rude and cranky club people who just want everyone else to go away. As I have read through many other forums here, this is a growing sentiment everywhere. Club people need to realize this. Especially in western stated where there is plenty of land to go and fly without feeling you are intruding on the 'established' folks. Open your arms to the new people, they will respond.
Most of us still give our time away… on our schedule… just like the training we received from those that taught us. Is that not good enough for you? Are you more important than we were then, or are now?
When you talk of spending your “time and money”, just what time are you talking about? When are you expecting a club to offer lessons. Tuesday mornings at 8 AM, or is that inconvenient for you? You wouldn’t have the club set aside time in the morn on the weekend days would you?... or are you expecting everyone else in the club to cater to you as well? If you can’t invest the time, just as those that went before you did… why not? Is your time more valuable than ours is or was?
Now, this may come as a shock to you. There are a lot of clubs out there that do not encourage new members. In the case of my club, it neither encourages nor discourages new members. We even have one club member who will teach you for a fee. Folks like you, that demand a schedule on their own time, can pay and get what they want. My club worried about this initially, figuring with all the complaining by newer newbies, there would be too much demand and cause problems at times when the most club members were flying. Turned out that the most newbies that made demands really wanted free training, and they want it on their schedule.
There are quite a number of us that have trained one too many current newbies, only to have them go on, then eventually crash and leave to find a new hobby. The commitment of time and effort is not what it once was, on average. Of course, there are still those that have a genuine interest in aviation. For them, my time and effort is still available at no charge. For those that demand it, or want it on their terms, the term “pound sand” works.
10-30-2005 | 07:27 PM
#102
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RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: slg1
Where in my post did I say I was owed something? I have said many times, I DO NOT want to intrude on anyones flying time. You post things verifying the feeling that new flyers have when going to clubs. As in drawing straws, a badly built plane etcetera. Again, you must have been perfect the first time out. As far as helping the club, I am willing and able to help in many areas. However, I DID pay for something when I paid my dues. Seems you think a new person not only has to pay dues but must pay some sort of homage to the "experienced" people. What do you expect, that I come to the field with brooms and shovels and cleaning equipment, prior to getting some help? This isnt the Karate Kid. Teh club is expecting dues from people who join, my question is, how is the club helping them feel welcomed and in turn getting help with the field and any other areas they may need assistance in. Your's is the idea that they pay and we'll help them when we feel like it. That will not fly and anyone with a bit of common sense will know that. The local club here has pushed so many people away, that many go to a dry lake bed to fly and the atmosphere is wonderful. Everyone is helpful. I am not the only one who has this opinion here, as the amount of people who come the the lake bed have the same story. Pompous, rude and cranky club people who just want everyone else to go away. As I have read through many other forums here, this is a growing sentiment everywhere. Club people need to realize this. Especially in western stated where there is plenty of land to go and fly without feeling you are intruding on the 'established' folks. Open your arms to the new people, they will respond.
Where in my post did I say I was owed something? I have said many times, I DO NOT want to intrude on anyones flying time. You post things verifying the feeling that new flyers have when going to clubs. As in drawing straws, a badly built plane etcetera. Again, you must have been perfect the first time out. As far as helping the club, I am willing and able to help in many areas. However, I DID pay for something when I paid my dues. Seems you think a new person not only has to pay dues but must pay some sort of homage to the "experienced" people. What do you expect, that I come to the field with brooms and shovels and cleaning equipment, prior to getting some help? This isnt the Karate Kid. Teh club is expecting dues from people who join, my question is, how is the club helping them feel welcomed and in turn getting help with the field and any other areas they may need assistance in. Your's is the idea that they pay and we'll help them when we feel like it. That will not fly and anyone with a bit of common sense will know that. The local club here has pushed so many people away, that many go to a dry lake bed to fly and the atmosphere is wonderful. Everyone is helpful. I am not the only one who has this opinion here, as the amount of people who come the the lake bed have the same story. Pompous, rude and cranky club people who just want everyone else to go away. As I have read through many other forums here, this is a growing sentiment everywhere. Club people need to realize this. Especially in western stated where there is plenty of land to go and fly without feeling you are intruding on the 'established' folks. Open your arms to the new people, they will respond.
Let me suggest a solution for you. Rather than your somewhat aggressive attacks on AMA clubs in this thread, why don't you start a thread that addresses this specific training issue rather than hijacking this thread about a technical problem we are trying to come to grips with? My point of view is that you are so interested in attacking that you refuse to allow significant discussion about anything else, but I have been told that I have a bad attitude. In all seriousness though, I really do think you need to write out exactly what it is you feel clubs must do to measure up to your lofty standards because it is painfully obvious that you have grief with every single approach to a solution that several thousand other people across the country have worked out over many years. I am sure that if we can see your way as a better one, many of us will take it to our clubs and run with it. Wouldn't that be much more effective than this rock throwing you seem to be insistent on? I invite you to help us all work on problem solving instead of rock throwing...
10-30-2005 | 07:35 PM
#103
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From: , FL
RE: Important information????
The only way to solve this is to use technology to do so (see my previous post). This country has enough regulations and legalities already. Let's keep the hobby what it should be: fun with flight.
10-30-2005 | 07:44 PM
#104
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RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: erauskydiver
Why not just develop a TX/RX system that uses a digital encrypted signal that relies on set algorithms to prevent interference. Kind of like your remote keyless entry for your car works. When you hit the button to pop the trunk, only your trunk opens, despite the thousands of other cars with keyless entry in the area. You could also have it set up so that a person could just buy one TX and then be able to buy as many RX's as they want by linking the RX's up to a computer so that the proper compatible algorithm could be loaded to the RX for decryption.
Why not just develop a TX/RX system that uses a digital encrypted signal that relies on set algorithms to prevent interference. Kind of like your remote keyless entry for your car works. When you hit the button to pop the trunk, only your trunk opens, despite the thousands of other cars with keyless entry in the area. You could also have it set up so that a person could just buy one TX and then be able to buy as many RX's as they want by linking the RX's up to a computer so that the proper compatible algorithm could be loaded to the RX for decryption.
Abel
10-30-2005 | 07:49 PM
#105
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RE: Important information????
My understanding of Spread Spectrum was that it just searches for a clear and most ideal channel. It only has something like 80 possiblities. I'm talking of actually encrypting the signal sent by the TX and decrypting it at the RX. This gives you infinite possiblities because it all relies on digital algorithms.
10-30-2005 | 08:55 PM
#106
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RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: erauskydiver
My understanding of Spread Spectrum was that it just searches for a clear and most ideal channel. It only has something like 80 possiblities. I'm talking of actually encrypting the signal sent by the TX and decrypting it at the RX. This gives you infinite possiblities because it all relies on digital algorithms.
My understanding of Spread Spectrum was that it just searches for a clear and most ideal channel. It only has something like 80 possiblities. I'm talking of actually encrypting the signal sent by the TX and decrypting it at the RX. This gives you infinite possiblities because it all relies on digital algorithms.
BTW, spread spectrum does much more than search for a clear channel - in fact that function isn't a necessary part of the signaling mode, though it often is. The essence of it is to spread signal energy across a wide bandwidth to improve signal to noise ratio - remember the concept of time-bandwidth product? It has been around for a long time. Broadcast FM spreads signal energy into multiple sidelobes. In order to accommodate those sidelobes and allow the Rx to recover signal energy from them, the signaling bandwidth must be increased. That's why 15 KHz is allocated to FM, as compared to 5 KHz for AM. Lots of people kid themselves into thinking FM is superior to AM for R/C, based on the performance differences in broadcast radio. It isn't, because both (all) modes in the R/C allocation are limited to the same bandwidth.
Abel
10-30-2005 | 10:22 PM
#107
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RE: Important information????
JR - Give me a break. Your concieted attitude is exactly why I, and many others prefer not to deal with people like you. If anything, it's club members like yourself who think the "new guy", or "the inexperienced flyer" owes THEM (meaning you) something.
When I started flying three years ago, I bought a used plane from a hobby shop, and had no one help me. I crashed the plane in less than 10 seconds. I rebuilt and recovered it with no help from others. Only people willing to SELL me the materials. I eventually had to PAY an instructor for three lousy flights, the last being that the carb screws came loose from my engine and he still charged me a full priced lesson. It was a take off, half round, land, pay me $25.
I went and bought a simulator from a different hobby shop after that. They (the different shop) offered lessons, but by then I was completely turned off to the "instructor" scene. After many hours on the simulator, I went and did my first solo, and had many others there after. I can't tell you how many good and bad flights I had, but I rebuilt that trainer at least three times, completely, and no thanks to a club, or a kind mentor.
I lived in Salt Lake City, now, do you think there were clubs there??? You're damn right there were, but no one offered to mention a meeting, and I did ask. Luckily for me, the salt flats on the outskirts of the city aren't familiar with who's in which club, etc.
Now times have changed. I moved to rural Ohio, and I've been fortunate enough to have a club less than three miles from me. Of course I joined. I fly at least twice a week. And I also participate in work as much as I can. Many of our members are older, retired guys. I'll tell you this much... If someone comes in to the club wanting training, you can bet that I'll offer to assist. In fact, most of our guys would jump right in to make sure his or her throws were correct, and not reversed. If it took more than one day to set the plane up, that's that it would take, and our club would help the person out no matter what. I fly pretty good... I've over 70 flights on my Rascal 40 with not one incident (knock on wood). I'm lucky enough to be in the aide of several of our club members guidence on aerobatics, and I'll need it, because I just finished a H-9 Extra 260.
It's guys like you that run your own clubs down. I don't know where you're from, but I hope you live in a city, because if you lived in an area like I do now, that kind of attitude would wind your club up in vanishment very quickly.
You're pathetic.
MPB
When I started flying three years ago, I bought a used plane from a hobby shop, and had no one help me. I crashed the plane in less than 10 seconds. I rebuilt and recovered it with no help from others. Only people willing to SELL me the materials. I eventually had to PAY an instructor for three lousy flights, the last being that the carb screws came loose from my engine and he still charged me a full priced lesson. It was a take off, half round, land, pay me $25.
I went and bought a simulator from a different hobby shop after that. They (the different shop) offered lessons, but by then I was completely turned off to the "instructor" scene. After many hours on the simulator, I went and did my first solo, and had many others there after. I can't tell you how many good and bad flights I had, but I rebuilt that trainer at least three times, completely, and no thanks to a club, or a kind mentor.
I lived in Salt Lake City, now, do you think there were clubs there??? You're damn right there were, but no one offered to mention a meeting, and I did ask. Luckily for me, the salt flats on the outskirts of the city aren't familiar with who's in which club, etc.
Now times have changed. I moved to rural Ohio, and I've been fortunate enough to have a club less than three miles from me. Of course I joined. I fly at least twice a week. And I also participate in work as much as I can. Many of our members are older, retired guys. I'll tell you this much... If someone comes in to the club wanting training, you can bet that I'll offer to assist. In fact, most of our guys would jump right in to make sure his or her throws were correct, and not reversed. If it took more than one day to set the plane up, that's that it would take, and our club would help the person out no matter what. I fly pretty good... I've over 70 flights on my Rascal 40 with not one incident (knock on wood). I'm lucky enough to be in the aide of several of our club members guidence on aerobatics, and I'll need it, because I just finished a H-9 Extra 260.
It's guys like you that run your own clubs down. I don't know where you're from, but I hope you live in a city, because if you lived in an area like I do now, that kind of attitude would wind your club up in vanishment very quickly.
You're pathetic.
MPB
10-30-2005 | 11:52 PM
#108
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RE: Important information????
Again, you say I am demanding things. You misread my post. I have never demanded anything. I would be glad to get instruction on the instructors schedule. And, that is exactly my point. the club here does nothing to facilitate that. I do not want to monopolize the clubs time or anyones time for that matter. As far as posting in an "aggressive" manner, being told to "pound sand" from someone who did not take the time to actually read what was written, is much more aggressive, wouldn't you say? Again, the main point of my posts were that YOU were a beginner at one time, which you fail to address in every one of your posts. I also did not hijack this forum, it's not about technology, which is inanimate. It is about the people. All these people moving to park flyers and potentially causing problems is a much deeper problem than just the technology. Some of those flyers may have at one time wanted to be a part of a club, but got the same treatment as the poster above and countless others have received. Again, these clubs must realize the potential that is lost everytime a new flyer is discouraged. And the comment that a certain club neither encourages or discourages new members is exactly my point. That is elitism at its most basic. Clubs should encourage new flyers, without a doubt.
10-31-2005 | 12:20 AM
#109
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RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: shag555
JR - Give me a break. Your concieted attitude is exactly why I, and many others prefer not to deal with people like you. If anything, it's club members like yourself who think the "new guy", or "the inexperienced flyer" owes THEM (meaning you) something.
When I started flying three years ago, I bought a used plane from a hobby shop, and had no one help me. I crashed the plane in less than 10 seconds. I rebuilt and recovered it with no help from others. Only people willing to SELL me the materials. I eventually had to PAY an instructor for three lousy flights, the last being that the carb screws came loose from my engine and he still charged me a full priced lesson. It was a take off, half round, land, pay me $25.
I went and bought a simulator from a different hobby shop after that. They (the different shop) offered lessons, but by then I was completely turned off to the "instructor" scene. After many hours on the simulator, I went and did my first solo, and had many others there after. I can't tell you how many good and bad flights I had, but I rebuilt that trainer at least three times, completely, and no thanks to a club, or a kind mentor.
I lived in Salt Lake City, now, do you think there were clubs there??? You're damn right there were, but no one offered to mention a meeting, and I did ask. Luckily for me, the salt flats on the outskirts of the city aren't familiar with who's in which club, etc.
Now times have changed. I moved to rural Ohio, and I've been fortunate enough to have a club less than three miles from me. Of course I joined. I fly at least twice a week. And I also participate in work as much as I can. Many of our members are older, retired guys. I'll tell you this much... If someone comes in to the club wanting training, you can bet that I'll offer to assist. In fact, most of our guys would jump right in to make sure his or her throws were correct, and not reversed. If it took more than one day to set the plane up, that's that it would take, and our club would help the person out no matter what. I fly pretty good... I've over 70 flights on my Rascal 40 with not one incident (knock on wood). I'm lucky enough to be in the aide of several of our club members guidence on aerobatics, and I'll need it, because I just finished a H-9 Extra 260.
It's guys like you that run your own clubs down. I don't know where you're from, but I hope you live in a city, because if you lived in an area like I do now, that kind of attitude would wind your club up in vanishment very quickly.
You're pathetic.
MPB
JR - Give me a break. Your concieted attitude is exactly why I, and many others prefer not to deal with people like you. If anything, it's club members like yourself who think the "new guy", or "the inexperienced flyer" owes THEM (meaning you) something.
When I started flying three years ago, I bought a used plane from a hobby shop, and had no one help me. I crashed the plane in less than 10 seconds. I rebuilt and recovered it with no help from others. Only people willing to SELL me the materials. I eventually had to PAY an instructor for three lousy flights, the last being that the carb screws came loose from my engine and he still charged me a full priced lesson. It was a take off, half round, land, pay me $25.
I went and bought a simulator from a different hobby shop after that. They (the different shop) offered lessons, but by then I was completely turned off to the "instructor" scene. After many hours on the simulator, I went and did my first solo, and had many others there after. I can't tell you how many good and bad flights I had, but I rebuilt that trainer at least three times, completely, and no thanks to a club, or a kind mentor.
I lived in Salt Lake City, now, do you think there were clubs there??? You're damn right there were, but no one offered to mention a meeting, and I did ask. Luckily for me, the salt flats on the outskirts of the city aren't familiar with who's in which club, etc.
Now times have changed. I moved to rural Ohio, and I've been fortunate enough to have a club less than three miles from me. Of course I joined. I fly at least twice a week. And I also participate in work as much as I can. Many of our members are older, retired guys. I'll tell you this much... If someone comes in to the club wanting training, you can bet that I'll offer to assist. In fact, most of our guys would jump right in to make sure his or her throws were correct, and not reversed. If it took more than one day to set the plane up, that's that it would take, and our club would help the person out no matter what. I fly pretty good... I've over 70 flights on my Rascal 40 with not one incident (knock on wood). I'm lucky enough to be in the aide of several of our club members guidence on aerobatics, and I'll need it, because I just finished a H-9 Extra 260.
It's guys like you that run your own clubs down. I don't know where you're from, but I hope you live in a city, because if you lived in an area like I do now, that kind of attitude would wind your club up in vanishment very quickly.
You're pathetic.
MPB
10-31-2005 | 12:23 AM
#110
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From: Corona, CA,
RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: slg1
Again, you say I am demanding things. You misread my post. I have never demanded anything. I would be glad to get instruction on the instructors schedule. And, that is exactly my point. the club here does nothing to facilitate that. I do not want to monopolize the clubs time or anyones time for that matter. As far as posting in an "aggressive" manner, being told to "pound sand" from someone who did not take the time to actually read what was written, is much more aggressive, wouldn't you say? Again, the main point of my posts were that YOU were a beginner at one time, which you fail to address in every one of your posts. I also did not hijack this forum, it's not about technology, which is inanimate. It is about the people. All these people moving to park flyers and potentially causing problems is a much deeper problem than just the technology. Some of those flyers may have at one time wanted to be a part of a club, but got the same treatment as the poster above and countless others have received. Again, these clubs must realize the potential that is lost everytime a new flyer is discouraged. And the comment that a certain club neither encourages or discourages new members is exactly my point. That is elitism at its most basic. Clubs should encourage new flyers, without a doubt.
Again, you say I am demanding things. You misread my post. I have never demanded anything. I would be glad to get instruction on the instructors schedule. And, that is exactly my point. the club here does nothing to facilitate that. I do not want to monopolize the clubs time or anyones time for that matter. As far as posting in an "aggressive" manner, being told to "pound sand" from someone who did not take the time to actually read what was written, is much more aggressive, wouldn't you say? Again, the main point of my posts were that YOU were a beginner at one time, which you fail to address in every one of your posts. I also did not hijack this forum, it's not about technology, which is inanimate. It is about the people. All these people moving to park flyers and potentially causing problems is a much deeper problem than just the technology. Some of those flyers may have at one time wanted to be a part of a club, but got the same treatment as the poster above and countless others have received. Again, these clubs must realize the potential that is lost everytime a new flyer is discouraged. And the comment that a certain club neither encourages or discourages new members is exactly my point. That is elitism at its most basic. Clubs should encourage new flyers, without a doubt.
Each club is entitled to chose their own agenda, and not to have anyone else mandate their goals. If you are unhappy with the agenda of a club, start a new one and build it in the image you want it to be.
10-31-2005 | 12:32 AM
#111
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From: Reno, NV
RE: Important information????
I would love to do that, and I guarantee that it would be open to new people, welcome them and anyone, with any amount of experience who showed the least bit of elitsim, as you do, would be removed and their dues refunded immediately. There isnt a club out there that should have your attitude. You are past your prime.....You have failed to address anything anyone says, other than to show you basically feel you own the world. I guess now I am not addressing your posts the way you meant eh?
ORIGINAL: J_R
You seem to be having substantial difficulty sorting out one post from another.
Each club is entitled to chose their own agenda, and not to have anyone else mandate their goals. If you are unhappy with the agenda of a club, start a new one and build it in the image you want it to be.
ORIGINAL: slg1
Again, you say I am demanding things. You misread my post. I have never demanded anything. I would be glad to get instruction on the instructors schedule. And, that is exactly my point. the club here does nothing to facilitate that. I do not want to monopolize the clubs time or anyones time for that matter. As far as posting in an "aggressive" manner, being told to "pound sand" from someone who did not take the time to actually read what was written, is much more aggressive, wouldn't you say? Again, the main point of my posts were that YOU were a beginner at one time, which you fail to address in every one of your posts. I also did not hijack this forum, it's not about technology, which is inanimate. It is about the people. All these people moving to park flyers and potentially causing problems is a much deeper problem than just the technology. Some of those flyers may have at one time wanted to be a part of a club, but got the same treatment as the poster above and countless others have received. Again, these clubs must realize the potential that is lost everytime a new flyer is discouraged. And the comment that a certain club neither encourages or discourages new members is exactly my point. That is elitism at its most basic. Clubs should encourage new flyers, without a doubt.
Again, you say I am demanding things. You misread my post. I have never demanded anything. I would be glad to get instruction on the instructors schedule. And, that is exactly my point. the club here does nothing to facilitate that. I do not want to monopolize the clubs time or anyones time for that matter. As far as posting in an "aggressive" manner, being told to "pound sand" from someone who did not take the time to actually read what was written, is much more aggressive, wouldn't you say? Again, the main point of my posts were that YOU were a beginner at one time, which you fail to address in every one of your posts. I also did not hijack this forum, it's not about technology, which is inanimate. It is about the people. All these people moving to park flyers and potentially causing problems is a much deeper problem than just the technology. Some of those flyers may have at one time wanted to be a part of a club, but got the same treatment as the poster above and countless others have received. Again, these clubs must realize the potential that is lost everytime a new flyer is discouraged. And the comment that a certain club neither encourages or discourages new members is exactly my point. That is elitism at its most basic. Clubs should encourage new flyers, without a doubt.
Each club is entitled to chose their own agenda, and not to have anyone else mandate their goals. If you are unhappy with the agenda of a club, start a new one and build it in the image you want it to be.
10-31-2005 | 12:37 AM
#112
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From: Corona, CA,
RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: slg1
I would love to do that, and I guarantee that it would be open to new people, welcome them and anyone, with any amount of experience who showed the least bit of elitsim, as you do, would be removed and their dues refunded immediately. There isnt a club out there that should have your attitude. You are past your prime.....You have failed to address anything anyone says, other than to show you basically feel you own the world. I guess now I am not addressing your posts the way you meant eh?
I would love to do that, and I guarantee that it would be open to new people, welcome them and anyone, with any amount of experience who showed the least bit of elitsim, as you do, would be removed and their dues refunded immediately. There isnt a club out there that should have your attitude. You are past your prime.....You have failed to address anything anyone says, other than to show you basically feel you own the world. I guess now I am not addressing your posts the way you meant eh?
Ask yourself: Could it be that not paying attention to others and wanting to talk yourself is at the root of your problems getting along with others in your local club? (rhetorical question)
11-15-2005 | 06:58 AM
#113
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From: Newport,
AR
RE: Important information????
I have to agree with slg1. All through these forums I read about how you need to join a club and get an instructor. Many, as I did, teach themselves and are constantly put down for being so arrogant as to believe they should be able to teach themselves. We see clubs that look down on "parkfliers" and aren't interested in the "looks" we would get. Then we are told that most aren't like that and we could find a good one. Now, here, out in the open, you explain how you run for cover when "noobies" show up with their sorry despicable excuses for airplanes. You fuss about using up your time on us, time you could fly. You fuss about having to take the time to teach us something and if only we were already knowledgeable about this stuff, it would save you time. Then you make the comment that we WANT SOMEONE TO GIVE US SOMETHING!!!!!!!! And, we have the attitude problem and should feel lucky to get the help. You then say these guys are great because of how many "noobies" they taught!? You are just going to have to get used to us "parkfliers" out here, flying on our own. You have now made it clear we would be a big bother to you! Who wants that? Not me.
On another thought, some are worried about the "parkfliers" on 72mhz....hey, they have been like that for some time now! Most of the guys I know who bought RTF's have quickly junked the electronics and put "real" radios in their planes. I did that a couple years ago. About two months after buying my first RTF. That means there have been a ton of 72 mhz park fliers out there for some time now. These new ones won't make much difference. I am a member of AMA for what it does for the hobby. However, I have no need of any club even close to the ones I have been reading about on this and other forums! Most seem to be just a bunch of over grown kids wanting to push their weight around with club politics! There is always a group who wants to run everything their way only and another group who wants to kick their butts out! Then they start making petty little rulings to make some one mad or to get some one else to quit. Who wants any of this crap? I will find a friend or two and go find an open field and just fly! I fly all electric, foamies, balsa and monokote, sticks, you name it, fast and slow! I sure don't want to be a bother.
Oh, and you with the big dollar planes, whether you like it or not, I have the same right to use these freqs as you! Sorry about that.
On another thought, some are worried about the "parkfliers" on 72mhz....hey, they have been like that for some time now! Most of the guys I know who bought RTF's have quickly junked the electronics and put "real" radios in their planes. I did that a couple years ago. About two months after buying my first RTF. That means there have been a ton of 72 mhz park fliers out there for some time now. These new ones won't make much difference. I am a member of AMA for what it does for the hobby. However, I have no need of any club even close to the ones I have been reading about on this and other forums! Most seem to be just a bunch of over grown kids wanting to push their weight around with club politics! There is always a group who wants to run everything their way only and another group who wants to kick their butts out! Then they start making petty little rulings to make some one mad or to get some one else to quit. Who wants any of this crap? I will find a friend or two and go find an open field and just fly! I fly all electric, foamies, balsa and monokote, sticks, you name it, fast and slow! I sure don't want to be a bother.
Oh, and you with the big dollar planes, whether you like it or not, I have the same right to use these freqs as you! Sorry about that.
11-15-2005 | 10:15 AM
#114
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Important information????
Your wide paint brush ad hominem attacks on all clubs and club members reminds me of some dictator off the coast of Florida and are really uncalled for as they add to, rather than solve the personality problems most of us bring to this table. Here is a more pleasant thought for you to consider. When you hear about 'bad' clubs and people, you really only hear one side of the story and it is always from someone who has some sort of beef, right or not. Signing up to their way of doing things without independent investigations proves nothing other than you can be sold on all sorts of things by the loudest shouter. That is not the purpose of this forum or needed. If you want to do those sort of things, I respectfully suggest the newsgroups.
That being said, I agree park flyers have an equal right to these frequencies as do AMA members and every other citizen of the U.S. I also agree they have been in use by the park flyer community for several years. In fact, I began suggesting we (AMA) find a solution to the potential problem before I lost a 30% aerobat to a frequency conflict from a kid flying in his grandpa's front yard near my flying field a few years ago. So the next question is what can we do to improve safety? Ignoring the problem will not make it go away, it demands attention.
That being said, I agree park flyers have an equal right to these frequencies as do AMA members and every other citizen of the U.S. I also agree they have been in use by the park flyer community for several years. In fact, I began suggesting we (AMA) find a solution to the potential problem before I lost a 30% aerobat to a frequency conflict from a kid flying in his grandpa's front yard near my flying field a few years ago. So the next question is what can we do to improve safety? Ignoring the problem will not make it go away, it demands attention.
11-15-2005 | 10:29 AM
#115
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From: Newport,
AR
RE: Important information????
I was pointing to many of the above posts. They didn't sell me on anything, except that there is a lot of garbage at some of the clubs, presented by themselves. Especially the one declaring how dreaded it was for a "noobie" to arrive. He said it his self. If he and they feel that way, why would he think anyone would want to join after reading his post? I didn't blast all clubs, either. I simply mentioned the ones I read about all the time. That's what I said. The forums are full of them. What are new prospects to think reading all this stuff?
The freq remark was to the poster who wanted laws changed to remove my use of the freqs because his planes cost more and I am not in a club. (actually I am, it's just too far away) I don't have $1,500 planes, but I have 300 to 600 dollars, apiece, in my "park fliers".
The freq remark was to the poster who wanted laws changed to remove my use of the freqs because his planes cost more and I am not in a club. (actually I am, it's just too far away) I don't have $1,500 planes, but I have 300 to 600 dollars, apiece, in my "park fliers".
11-15-2005 | 11:35 AM
#116
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From: Corona, CA,
RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: agcatsbest
I have to agree with slg1. All through these forums I read about how you need to join a club and get an instructor. Many, as I did, teach themselves and are constantly put down for being so arrogant as to believe they should be able to teach themselves. We see clubs that look down on "parkfliers" and aren't interested in the "looks" we would get. Then we are told that most aren't like that and we could find a good one. Now, here, out in the open, you explain how you run for cover when "noobies" show up with their sorry despicable excuses for airplanes. You fuss about using up your time on us, time you could fly. You fuss about having to take the time to teach us something and if only we were already knowledgeable about this stuff, it would save you time. Then you make the comment that we WANT SOMEONE TO GIVE US SOMETHING!!!!!!!! And, we have the attitude problem and should feel lucky to get the help. You then say these guys are great because of how many "noobies" they taught!? You are just going to have to get used to us "parkfliers" out here, flying on our own. You have now made it clear we would be a big bother to you! Who wants that? Not me.
<snip>
I have to agree with slg1. All through these forums I read about how you need to join a club and get an instructor. Many, as I did, teach themselves and are constantly put down for being so arrogant as to believe they should be able to teach themselves. We see clubs that look down on "parkfliers" and aren't interested in the "looks" we would get. Then we are told that most aren't like that and we could find a good one. Now, here, out in the open, you explain how you run for cover when "noobies" show up with their sorry despicable excuses for airplanes. You fuss about using up your time on us, time you could fly. You fuss about having to take the time to teach us something and if only we were already knowledgeable about this stuff, it would save you time. Then you make the comment that we WANT SOMEONE TO GIVE US SOMETHING!!!!!!!! And, we have the attitude problem and should feel lucky to get the help. You then say these guys are great because of how many "noobies" they taught!? You are just going to have to get used to us "parkfliers" out here, flying on our own. You have now made it clear we would be a big bother to you! Who wants that? Not me.
<snip>
There are clubs that look down on free flight. There are clubs that look down on control line. There are RC clubs that look down on power planes. There are RC clubs that look down on sailplanes. There are clubs that look down on electrics and/or park flyers. It has always been up to the clubs to determine what they want. Do you believe that a group of park flyers that have managed to find an indoor sight should be forced to share it with 25% IC aircraft?
Let's put this other issue of training out on the table, in the light of day. Maybe then you can understand where some of us that have been around more than a week or two get our feelings.
There was a time when the only way you were going to learn to fly was to build your own plane. Sure, you could buy someone else's, but they were probably going to train you. Most kits were never completed. Interest was lost and the kits went to some great closet in the sky. Those that did complete the kit spent, in most cases, months and months building them. They made friends among the local modelers along the way. The local hobby shop may well have been the source of help for many of them. In short, they were in no rush to rekit all that work.
The friends they made were not willing to watch their efforts disappear in a cloud of balsa dust and helped the newbie learn to fly. The newbie understood why he was going to wait between flights. He had been to the field many times before his plane was finished.
OK, now, let's be realistic. Things have changed. The first timer that built his own plane has become like a dinosaur. ARFs, RTFs, and park flyers are here to stay. That is not bad, but, it is different. One of the major differences is that some of those newbies think that because they could buy into the hobby on a hardware basis, they can demand the time of those that have traditionally trained newbies. Well... newsbreak... it just ain't so. Even the AMA has become aware of the problem. They now allow casual paid instructors at the club level. For those with more money than patience, you can pay an instructor.
If, on the other hand, you are willing to come in, make friends, invest your time and effort, you can still get the same type of training that has always been available.
YOU MAY NOT demand it. You will pay... either with emotional involvement and time, or with dollars. Your choice.
11-15-2005 | 11:43 AM
#117
RE: Important information????
Sometimes you have to think about what your reading in some of these complainers' posts.
About a year ago, I read about the complaints of someone who wanted to join the club I am a member of. I didn't recognize the club till he named it. His description made us sound so bad, I almost wanted to quit after over 30 years of membership. Then, someone from California sent in a link to our website, emphasizing our instruction program. Our website even has an album of pictures showing members with park flyers, helicopters, about everything up to large scalers. The question was, is THIS the same club?
A few weeks later, I ran into a former member who in conversation echoed many of the sentiments in the post. His first name matched part of the user name from the post, and lived in the post source location. He really bad-mouthed the club to me.
If this was the same person, he was in the club for less than 2 years. He constantly opposed our field rules, including restrictions against taxiing in the pits, flying over the flight line, and even our mandatory use of a frequency control board. He reminded me of someone from a neighboring club who thought "We don't need no stinking rules", flew behind the pits over the property owner's greenhouses, and crashed into one.
A club of itself doesn't have a set personality. The club overal reflects a melding of the oppinions of it's individual members. I doubt that one bad experience with a few members on one day will really reflect more than a small number of that club's overall membership. Of course, there may be a few clubs where it does.
About a year ago, I read about the complaints of someone who wanted to join the club I am a member of. I didn't recognize the club till he named it. His description made us sound so bad, I almost wanted to quit after over 30 years of membership. Then, someone from California sent in a link to our website, emphasizing our instruction program. Our website even has an album of pictures showing members with park flyers, helicopters, about everything up to large scalers. The question was, is THIS the same club?
A few weeks later, I ran into a former member who in conversation echoed many of the sentiments in the post. His first name matched part of the user name from the post, and lived in the post source location. He really bad-mouthed the club to me.
If this was the same person, he was in the club for less than 2 years. He constantly opposed our field rules, including restrictions against taxiing in the pits, flying over the flight line, and even our mandatory use of a frequency control board. He reminded me of someone from a neighboring club who thought "We don't need no stinking rules", flew behind the pits over the property owner's greenhouses, and crashed into one.
A club of itself doesn't have a set personality. The club overal reflects a melding of the oppinions of it's individual members. I doubt that one bad experience with a few members on one day will really reflect more than a small number of that club's overall membership. Of course, there may be a few clubs where it does.
11-15-2005 | 11:47 AM
#118
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From: Newport,
AR
RE: Important information????
As I said, I was pointing to the post about people running away and drawing straws to see who would have to help the "noobie". Laid it out on the table! Why would anyone want to go there? After reading many thread post stating you should join a club and get an instructor, no less. One responded that he didn't want to bother others, to which he was responded to with "you are expecting something for nothing, don't want to give yourself." Your are told to get help, then you are told you are expecting something for nothing if you do! It all just didn't set right with me. Period.
I have seen many comments about people who had the nerve to think they could teach themselves to fly. You wouldn't teach yourself to be a doctor. You wouldn't teach yourself to fly full scale. etc, etc, etc. so, why would you think you should teach yourself to fly RC?
I have seen many comments about people who had the nerve to think they could teach themselves to fly. You wouldn't teach yourself to be a doctor. You wouldn't teach yourself to fly full scale. etc, etc, etc. so, why would you think you should teach yourself to fly RC?
11-15-2005 | 12:38 PM
#119
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From: Corona, CA,
RE: Important information????
ORIGINAL: agcatsbest
As I said, I was pointing to the post about people running away and drawing straws to see who would have to help the "noobie". Laid it out on the table! Why would anyone want to go there? After reading many thread post stating you should join a club and get an instructor, no less. One responded that he didn't want to bother others, to which he was responded to with "you are expecting something for nothing, don't want to give yourself." Your are told to get help, then you are told you are expecting something for nothing if you do! It all just didn't set right with me. Period.
I have seen many comments about people who had the nerve to think they could teach themselves to fly. You wouldn't teach yourself to be a doctor. You wouldn't teach yourself to fly full scale. etc, etc, etc. so, why would you think you should teach yourself to fly RC?
As I said, I was pointing to the post about people running away and drawing straws to see who would have to help the "noobie". Laid it out on the table! Why would anyone want to go there? After reading many thread post stating you should join a club and get an instructor, no less. One responded that he didn't want to bother others, to which he was responded to with "you are expecting something for nothing, don't want to give yourself." Your are told to get help, then you are told you are expecting something for nothing if you do! It all just didn't set right with me. Period.
I have seen many comments about people who had the nerve to think they could teach themselves to fly. You wouldn't teach yourself to be a doctor. You wouldn't teach yourself to fly full scale. etc, etc, etc. so, why would you think you should teach yourself to fly RC?
I don't think you can answer the question. I think most that read this can.
As to your second paragraph, was there some part of "you will pay" that you do not understand?
11-15-2005 | 06:27 PM
#120
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (3)
RE: Important information????
Sorry, you seem to be missing or ignoring the point several have made. What you see and here on line in no way resembles what most of us have seen nationwide, no matter how honest the used car salesmen sound.
Pray tell why anyone would ever stay around to draw the short straw unless the entire group really was interested in teaching the new entrants? Think about that one long and hard before your next session on the keyboard, because it explicitly explains your erroneous assumptions.
Oh by the way, just try to teach yourself to fly rider scale. I strongly suspect that you will find that a fast ticket to the local or federal little room with bars on it. So the modeling world is much more lenient than the real world. Please stop trying to confuse yourself on this one, because you really are wrong. Here is why. Many folks have taught themselves to fly R/C, so we know it can be done. It is still not FREE no matter how loudly you shout it. Wrecks damage equipment that needs to be replaced/repaired. Is it cheaper to join a club and learn? That solely depends on the guy behind the sticks with all the money and decisions to make; though most instructors in clubs do teach safety as a matter of course. I guess you get to pay your money and take your choice.
Pray tell why anyone would ever stay around to draw the short straw unless the entire group really was interested in teaching the new entrants? Think about that one long and hard before your next session on the keyboard, because it explicitly explains your erroneous assumptions.
Oh by the way, just try to teach yourself to fly rider scale. I strongly suspect that you will find that a fast ticket to the local or federal little room with bars on it. So the modeling world is much more lenient than the real world. Please stop trying to confuse yourself on this one, because you really are wrong. Here is why. Many folks have taught themselves to fly R/C, so we know it can be done. It is still not FREE no matter how loudly you shout it. Wrecks damage equipment that needs to be replaced/repaired. Is it cheaper to join a club and learn? That solely depends on the guy behind the sticks with all the money and decisions to make; though most instructors in clubs do teach safety as a matter of course. I guess you get to pay your money and take your choice.
