Difficult Arfs!
01-07-2011, 10:24 AM
#101
RE: Difficult Arfs!
I feel like saying a lot, but I will restrain myself and recount an incident with my son. One day, my son walked up to me and said: "Dad, you know, when I look all around me, I realize that I can't build any of the things that I see. Not the furniture, TV, car, house, computer, iPod, anything."
Now that's humility and an accurate perspective for a 9-year old. I wish that I and others had the same attitude!
Now that's humility and an accurate perspective for a 9-year old. I wish that I and others had the same attitude!
01-07-2011, 11:17 AM
#102
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: chistech
I BUILD a lot of my aircraft from plans and kits. I also ASSEMBLE a lot of ARF's and I agree somewhat with your terminology. If a kit has foam wings that need to be sheeted or a glass fuse that needs to be painted and have additional work done to it, then it is still building in my eyes (A Byron P51 is a good example). Today's world is one of instant gratisfaction and most will not put in the effort to build even if they have the time. When you bring up assembling an ARF is not the same as building, some get defensive when they really shouldn't. The hobby has changed and so should the terminology. I was just talking tonight with a senior member of our club who was on the USS Hornet during the war in the Pacific. In between flying his sorties in the F6F Hellcat, he built model airplanes in the state room he shared with three other pilots to help forget what was going on. He said he would think of building his models on his way back from missions to help pass the time. If this man could find a place and the time to build than anyone can! Of course, there were no ARFs back then. If you BUILD your house it means it was built board by board. There other ways to have a home erected, then the terminology gets changed to MODULAR or MANUFACTURED HOME. So the terminology changed in the housing industry why can't it change in modeling. Like others here are saying, the hobby is for fun and if someone is a builder, he is a builder. If someone puts together a pre-made airframe then in actuality, he is an assembler and don't get mad about the terminology. I have posted ''BUILD'' threads of ARFs in the past and later realized it's not really a build thread so I thinks it's nothing more than people using the wrong wording when describing what they have done. I have seen some guys who insist they are builders but at the same time admit that they would never open a box full of ''sticks'' and put it together. Their next comment is ''it's too much work'' yet they insist they are ''builders''! If you take a ARF and change things on it to make it more scale like (ie, war birds) then you are really detailing it, or accurizing it, not building it. This debate will go on and on because of people's interpretations and opinions but hell, let's have fun and not worry about it. I still like anyone in the hobby no matter what they call themselves as long as they are good people!
I BUILD a lot of my aircraft from plans and kits. I also ASSEMBLE a lot of ARF's and I agree somewhat with your terminology. If a kit has foam wings that need to be sheeted or a glass fuse that needs to be painted and have additional work done to it, then it is still building in my eyes (A Byron P51 is a good example). Today's world is one of instant gratisfaction and most will not put in the effort to build even if they have the time. When you bring up assembling an ARF is not the same as building, some get defensive when they really shouldn't. The hobby has changed and so should the terminology. I was just talking tonight with a senior member of our club who was on the USS Hornet during the war in the Pacific. In between flying his sorties in the F6F Hellcat, he built model airplanes in the state room he shared with three other pilots to help forget what was going on. He said he would think of building his models on his way back from missions to help pass the time. If this man could find a place and the time to build than anyone can! Of course, there were no ARFs back then. If you BUILD your house it means it was built board by board. There other ways to have a home erected, then the terminology gets changed to MODULAR or MANUFACTURED HOME. So the terminology changed in the housing industry why can't it change in modeling. Like others here are saying, the hobby is for fun and if someone is a builder, he is a builder. If someone puts together a pre-made airframe then in actuality, he is an assembler and don't get mad about the terminology. I have posted ''BUILD'' threads of ARFs in the past and later realized it's not really a build thread so I thinks it's nothing more than people using the wrong wording when describing what they have done. I have seen some guys who insist they are builders but at the same time admit that they would never open a box full of ''sticks'' and put it together. Their next comment is ''it's too much work'' yet they insist they are ''builders''! If you take a ARF and change things on it to make it more scale like (ie, war birds) then you are really detailing it, or accurizing it, not building it. This debate will go on and on because of people's interpretations and opinions but hell, let's have fun and not worry about it. I still like anyone in the hobby no matter what they call themselves as long as they are good people!
I have built my share of kits from the days when only kits were available. Now, due to time restraints, I love the ARF's on the market because they allows me more time to fly than at the building table. An ARF gives me the ability to "Assemble" the aircraft with the components of my choice. If I want to upgrade the components, I will. If not, I use what came with the ARF kit. Either way, I'm flying and enjoying my time at the field with other members instead of sitting at my bench looking at the next step of the assembly process. Some ARF's are better than others and I have found what I like in the market. However the best part is I'm at the field flying with my buddies and just about everyone has a positive comment when they see a quality ARF show up and fly great!!
my .02 cents
01-07-2011, 12:09 PM
#104
RE: Difficult Arfs!
There are so many different long threads about builders vs arf people, and the other way around! Some seem to start the old argument in any new way they can find! And they find a new angle ever week or less.
I think that in lieu of having the butt in front of the computer, for so many long hours, arf people could start buliding (or assembling). AND the builders could build much more (or start another proyect they have been dreaming and talking about for sooooo long)...
Spring and summer will be here very soon, and I am allready 4 planes behind...:-)
Just my 2 cents. Besides, recreational arguing is NOT a sport either!
Gerry
Gone to the shop
I think that in lieu of having the butt in front of the computer, for so many long hours, arf people could start buliding (or assembling). AND the builders could build much more (or start another proyect they have been dreaming and talking about for sooooo long)...
Spring and summer will be here very soon, and I am allready 4 planes behind...:-)
Just my 2 cents. Besides, recreational arguing is NOT a sport either!
Gerry
Gone to the shop
01-07-2011, 01:22 PM
#105
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
Well carpenters are carpenters, be they framers or finish ones.
Both can build a table/chair/cabinet. But the finish carpenter is more then likely to build a much nicer one.
And a finish carpenter can take an item built by a framer and make it look and perform better.
And there are modelers and modelers.
And builders and builders.
Isn't that all this is about. Our skills and what we do with them?
Big deal if it started out as an ARF. Call it build or rebuild, or modifying. Just let it go!
And Barry, I just finished a kit started by someone else. And I modded the heck out of it, way past what the plans were, So what is that? And how do I classify myself on that? Build, almost build, somewhat build, partial build, build finish, ARF build, ARF finish, modification of a build, modification of an ARF? I'm confused. LOL!
Both can build a table/chair/cabinet. But the finish carpenter is more then likely to build a much nicer one.
And a finish carpenter can take an item built by a framer and make it look and perform better.
And there are modelers and modelers.
And builders and builders.
Isn't that all this is about. Our skills and what we do with them?
Big deal if it started out as an ARF. Call it build or rebuild, or modifying. Just let it go!
And Barry, I just finished a kit started by someone else. And I modded the heck out of it, way past what the plans were, So what is that? And how do I classify myself on that? Build, almost build, somewhat build, partial build, build finish, ARF build, ARF finish, modification of a build, modification of an ARF? I'm confused. LOL!
01-07-2011, 01:31 PM
#106
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
Flying and building are what this hobby is all about for me. Yes I fly and no I don't have to much time on my hands. I fly when I want to and build when I want to. I am retired so there isn't a conflict either way. Nice to see your concerned if I can fly. I also am a licensed pilot and fly my plane when I want to do that so that is also part of my hobby. Flying around and checking out from above different clubs after I have pinpointed them on my charts. Can you fly a model or a real plane? Dont assume something unless you already know the answer!
Barry
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01-07-2011, 02:52 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
Does it really matter. You will probably drive it into the ground sooner or later anyway. Fibre glass shreads as well as balsa or carbon fibre given enough force. Trust me, I've destroyed my share of planes no matter what they were made from! It's just another day in the life.
01-07-2011, 02:54 PM
#110
RE: Difficult Arfs!
That is another good point Barry C. Back in the days before ARFs. There were some guys flying some really rough looking stuff. They loved to fly but did not poses the skills to build and or cover. Or maybe they were having to do it part time on a small table in the garage, which made their work suffer. Speaking for myself, I can build , cover and setup a plane with the best of them. Just don't look at my paint jobs. So while I would never enter a stock ARF in a scale contest, most of us have benefited visually from mass production in one way or another.
David
David
01-07-2011, 03:17 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
NCIS what does being a full scale pilot have to do with RC??? The only thing the two have in common is they both have wings and propellers (unless of course you’re a jet guy, feel free to adjust) beyond that were talking apples and aircraft carriers, I mean really?...
The only person who is wrong is the guy who looks at another guy doing his thing and says he’s wrong, hello Stars and Stripes, Free Country, besides if we were all the same it get a might boring right quick round here…
But if you must have a justification for the old ARFs here you go: I spent 184 man hours building an AT-6 (kit), man it seemed like it would never end… You guessed it sports fans, crashed it on the first flight… I think I got about 4 minutes of flight time… (insert expletives here) SO ARF ME BABY!!!
You builders out there, even if you don’t think so, you DO get the tip of the cap from the guys at the field when you bring out your babies. I’ve seen some guys build some stunning aircraft, works of art actually. Kudos to you guys with that skill set, patients and expertise, its most impressive!
In conclusion, Mr. NCIS, next time you go to the field and see some ace tearing up the sky, defying logic and what seems to be physics, when he lands and after you close your mouth, ask him where he bought his ARF!!! Roll with it my man, roll with it. You don’t get a whole lot of choices in this world, but you definitely get to choose what attitude you adopt in EVERY situation. Words to live by from Arrow IV, office hours are M-F 9:00-5:00, walk-ins welcome!!!
The only person who is wrong is the guy who looks at another guy doing his thing and says he’s wrong, hello Stars and Stripes, Free Country, besides if we were all the same it get a might boring right quick round here…
But if you must have a justification for the old ARFs here you go: I spent 184 man hours building an AT-6 (kit), man it seemed like it would never end… You guessed it sports fans, crashed it on the first flight… I think I got about 4 minutes of flight time… (insert expletives here) SO ARF ME BABY!!!
You builders out there, even if you don’t think so, you DO get the tip of the cap from the guys at the field when you bring out your babies. I’ve seen some guys build some stunning aircraft, works of art actually. Kudos to you guys with that skill set, patients and expertise, its most impressive!
In conclusion, Mr. NCIS, next time you go to the field and see some ace tearing up the sky, defying logic and what seems to be physics, when he lands and after you close your mouth, ask him where he bought his ARF!!! Roll with it my man, roll with it. You don’t get a whole lot of choices in this world, but you definitely get to choose what attitude you adopt in EVERY situation. Words to live by from Arrow IV, office hours are M-F 9:00-5:00, walk-ins welcome!!!
01-07-2011, 03:24 PM
#112
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
I AGREE MR. MODERATOR. ANOTHER NOTE,... SHOULD N'T THE NAME OF THIS THREAD BE " I AM THE BESTEST GLUERIZER AND IRONOLOGIST SO I AM BETTER THAN EVERYONE.... LET'S ARGUE!!!"
01-07-2011, 04:49 PM
#114
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87" up to 127". All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
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01-07-2011, 04:52 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: Barry Cazier
BTW,
I've got a nice Extreme Flight Edge 540T on the bench right now. I'm pretty sure most stick people couldn't match the quality of this ARF if they wanted to.
Pretty darn nice airplane.
Thanks
Barry
BTW,I've got a nice Extreme Flight Edge 540T on the bench right now. I'm pretty sure most stick people couldn't match the quality of this ARF if they wanted to.
Pretty darn nice airplane.
Thanks
Barry
My scratch builder "Joel" who is a "Master" at this.....has a hard time to duplicate the quality of these kits (Or whatever you want to call them).
My PA Extra MX with Carbon Fiber "Fusion" was so hot looking.....my wife used to ask me if I wanted her to sleep on the couch so I could bring the plane to bed
At least that has stopped now that the wings are attached[X(]
01-07-2011, 05:09 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: NCIS
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
Dude, here you go again......
1 - Telling us "Mine is bigger than yours! SO WHAT! My latest ARF is so big, it doesn't even fit in any of my vehicles.....and my biggest vehicle is a 1995 Chevy Tahoe (Like a Suburban) (It's big!) Now I have to listen to YOU on top of my wife telling me "What are you going to do now, buy a Van? OR a trailer?)
2 - Again with Bashing RCU...If you don't like it here DON'T LOG IN.....If I had rights, I would help you and disable your account
3 - Calling people STUPID and using profanity such as the A word only show YOUR TRUE COLORS my man....and it doesn't look good for you......
Now that I am sucked into this thread...the only thing I want is for you to go away....back to your Respectable sites....please.....
and what's wrong with a little "Instant Gratification"?
01-07-2011, 05:24 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: kwblake
Now, I'm really sorry that I got sucked into this.
Now, I'm really sorry that I got sucked into this.
So he started out with an Electric Ready to fly, I think an Aprentice.....your basic trainer, but electric foam job....
Then he goes out like a week later and buys a Top Flight Gold Arf, AT-6 Texan .90 sized as his second plane...and a 27% giant scale (Extra) from Great planes, all the servos, Zenoah engine, etc.....all at once on closeout.....
He calls me up the next day and says "Dude.....this hobby involves Glue!".......All I want to do is fly!
He then paid our local "Scratch Builder" to "Assemble" both those ARF's for him.....hansomly[:-] I am sure.....as that is alot of work.
I guess the moral of the story is some people just want to fly, and would be ok with a kit involving "Just add Water" and poof! A plane!
Not all of us want to sit on the bench for 100+ hours "Building"....while I am okay with that....it seems wrong to not respect others who are not into "Building" since after all , the hobby is really about FLYING!!!!!
If it was not, we would all have nothing but "Hangar Queens" and sit around talking about our "builds" all day.......doesn't sound like as much fun as flying, does it?
01-07-2011, 05:31 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: NCIS
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
BTW - ATTENTION MODERATOR! WHEN I reply to this with a QUOTE - IT SHOWS me his PROFANITY!!!!! Clearly this is a violation of RCU rules.....can't we disable his account?[X(]
Please.....I mean there has to be SOME repercussions for this violation?
And notice I have refrained from attaching a print screen or other means of showing you, because I know.......that you know I am right. And I do not want to get sucked down to his level......any more than I already have
And for that, I am sorry......
Peace Out!
-Tom
01-07-2011, 06:12 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
I suppose if I have someone else cut my kits out for me then ive taken a shortcut and am not a real builder? You seem to a be sanctimonious gerkin of a individjual perhaps you should tell us some more about how we suck. I dont see any planes in your hanger and I dont believe youve ever built anything It is my opinion that the mods should shut down this thread and ban you for being a liar.
01-07-2011, 06:16 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: NCIS
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
NCIS: "You think I started this thread to start trouble"
Me:" Yes."
NCIS: "I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane."
Me: "Harsh."
Barry, why such a big chip on the shoulder?
I've never "scratch built" anything scale, but have "scratch built" ugly!
I built a bunch of Guillows models when I was a kid, built a Great Planes Rapture and a Top Flite DC-3/C-47 most recently. I have a T/F P-47 and a SIG 4 Star 120 yet to "build".
Just because I've built a "pre-packaged" kit doesn't mean I don't have a stupid opinion every now and then.
I guess I am pretty lazy too because I love to fly my Hobbico Twinstar, my Model Tech Dragon Lady (ARFS).
NCIS: "This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore."
Me: "Sounds like you, a real builder, would be happier."
Well, that's my nickles worth, and we both know each other a little better now.
Peace!
Ben
01-07-2011, 06:22 PM
#123
RE: Difficult Arfs!
I have a question NCIS. Did you build your full scale A/C? If not you are just a lazy, instant gratification type of FS pilot. You should be ok with waiting to fly until you finish your FS build. I am in the process of building my FS A/C. Does that make me better than you? Oh yea I also have built, from a kit or plans, every one of my models except one and it flys just as well as the others.
01-07-2011, 06:32 PM
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: psb667
I suppose if I have someone else cut my kits out for me then ive taken a shortcut and am not a real builder? You seem to a be sanctimonious gerkin of a individjual perhaps you should tell us some more about how we suck. I dont see any planes in your hanger and I dont believe youve ever built anything It is my opinion that the mods should shut down this thread and ban you for being a liar.
I suppose if I have someone else cut my kits out for me then ive taken a shortcut and am not a real builder? You seem to a be sanctimonious gerkin of a individjual perhaps you should tell us some more about how we suck. I dont see any planes in your hanger and I dont believe youve ever built anything It is my opinion that the mods should shut down this thread and ban you for being a liar.
01-07-2011, 08:04 PM
#125
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RE: Difficult Arfs!
ORIGINAL: NCIS
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry
I happen to be building three planes at this time. Starting at 87'' up to 127''. All Warbirds. One P-40 and two Corsairs. You think I started this thread to start trouble and that is why I am on two other respectable sites without the little whiners like all of you. This site is starting to be a joke and I have been told that by many real builders that don't even bother with it anymore. I just come on here to see how stupid some of you non builders stupid opinions are when you haven't even built a plane. I have nothing else to say so go ahead and do what your doing by repeating over and over what an ******* I am. Just don't ever tell me that an ARF is a true build because it's just not and you lazy flyers know it. You just want instant gratification so you buy from China.[:-]
Barry