Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
07-09-2004, 08:30 PM
#28
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
A friend of mine ordered the Vmar Chipmunk and had it shipped to me to assemble. When I opened the box, the tail feathers were badly warped, the ailerons were warped more than the recommended throw, elevator was hinged crooked. Covering was terrible, wallpaper at best, they did not use balsa, some kind of smelly wood. Instructions were horrible, boxed it back up for return. All my friend got from Vmar was the run around. To date he still has not gotten a refund after paying $20+ for return postage. If you buy a Vmar plane-all I can say is Good Luck!! Flipstart
07-10-2004, 01:35 AM
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RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
ORIGINAL: NJ Georgee
Im interested in www.RichmondRC.com to get one of there planes but they never return my emails or my local hobbie shop emails either? I was wondering if any of you have sent for one and received it in good condition.There prices are realy good or is it to good to be true?
Im interested in www.RichmondRC.com to get one of there planes but they never return my emails or my local hobbie shop emails either? I was wondering if any of you have sent for one and received it in good condition.There prices are realy good or is it to good to be true?
- Their hardware is of poor quality. Mine came with rusted rods, connectors, gear, screws, basically everything that is metal was rusted.
- The wood used was of poor-average quality. Instructions were spotty at best. Several bad glue joints.
- Good graphics, but it faded fast.
- My suggestions: Spend a little more money on a quality ARF (like SIG), stay away from VMAR, and you'll be much happier!
They had their one chance with me and I really don't care to try them ever again. Especially with so many other better quality ARFs manufacturers around.
07-10-2004, 02:54 AM
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RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
I went to pick up my VMAR CAP 232 (60) today. I took out the cowling to have a look which I did not yesterday, the cowling was warped. What can I say, no more VMARs!
11-10-2005, 08:34 AM
#31
RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
Anyone looking at this thread
VMar have inpoved out of all recognision since these negative comments in 2004, I have been flying for over 40 years and the quality and value of the current crop of ARTF asstound me, some are absolutly brilliant Graupner to name one some are not good value, but VMar are amazing value for money.
I Fly
Hanger 9
Seagull
Graupner
Ultrafly
E-Flight
Weston UK
VMar
So you can see I have a broad experience of the market place.
Speak as you know not as you think.
Mike
VMar have inpoved out of all recognision since these negative comments in 2004, I have been flying for over 40 years and the quality and value of the current crop of ARTF asstound me, some are absolutly brilliant Graupner to name one some are not good value, but VMar are amazing value for money.
I Fly
Hanger 9
Seagull
Graupner
Ultrafly
E-Flight
Weston UK
VMar
So you can see I have a broad experience of the market place.
Speak as you know not as you think.
Mike
11-10-2005, 04:57 PM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
The PC-9 is a great flyer. I would not be too concerned. I had one of the 1st release" Roulette" one's with the old "fade away" covering. The new convering is a lot better. I gave the he model away eventually after the engine (A Saito) dropped a valve and had an internal haemorage. It is still flying, though is almost white now.
Their best flyer yet is the "ESCAPE."
Only old models like the "Ramrod" are still made with the old oily match wood. Though I am led to believe that the wood in this model is also being changed to Balsa.
New releases such as the Jodel, the Jet series, the Stiks, the 2 little Electrics and the Stinger Trainer, are made with Balsa and Ply,
al beit not being Midwest quality wood.
There has been much criticsm of VMAR over the years. Much of it deserved, but their later products are a huge improvement. I have owned many and the only 2 real duds were the very early Stilleto and the Chipmunk, which had common wing design fault problems as well as weak landing gear blocks.
This latter point is also common to other more "respected" ARF brands, so VMAR should not be singled out and "burnt at the stake" for this problem.
Overall, VMAR may not have the best finished ARF's around, but their newer designs do work when it comes to flying.
As for how long do they last?
Well that depends upon how you look after them and fly them.
Nothing is going to last long if you hoon around all the time, flying at the edge and pushing the limits, or you get it to do things that it is not designed to do.
My oldest VMAR is a 1st release Ramrod, circa 1997. and as previously mentioned, my original PC-9 circa 1997, is still flying in anothers hands.
But my VMAR Chipmunk did not last long.
Please don' t give me the old "They don't stand up in a crash" argument. Name me one manufacturer, that has airplanes that do not break in a crash! Even Boeing's break!
ESM/KMP and CM-PRO amongst others, have raised the stakes in finish and it will be interesting to see how VMAR respond.
Their best flyer yet is the "ESCAPE."
Only old models like the "Ramrod" are still made with the old oily match wood. Though I am led to believe that the wood in this model is also being changed to Balsa.
New releases such as the Jodel, the Jet series, the Stiks, the 2 little Electrics and the Stinger Trainer, are made with Balsa and Ply,
al beit not being Midwest quality wood.
There has been much criticsm of VMAR over the years. Much of it deserved, but their later products are a huge improvement. I have owned many and the only 2 real duds were the very early Stilleto and the Chipmunk, which had common wing design fault problems as well as weak landing gear blocks.
This latter point is also common to other more "respected" ARF brands, so VMAR should not be singled out and "burnt at the stake" for this problem.
Overall, VMAR may not have the best finished ARF's around, but their newer designs do work when it comes to flying.
As for how long do they last?
Well that depends upon how you look after them and fly them.
Nothing is going to last long if you hoon around all the time, flying at the edge and pushing the limits, or you get it to do things that it is not designed to do.
My oldest VMAR is a 1st release Ramrod, circa 1997. and as previously mentioned, my original PC-9 circa 1997, is still flying in anothers hands.
But my VMAR Chipmunk did not last long.
Please don' t give me the old "They don't stand up in a crash" argument. Name me one manufacturer, that has airplanes that do not break in a crash! Even Boeing's break!
ESM/KMP and CM-PRO amongst others, have raised the stakes in finish and it will be interesting to see how VMAR respond.
11-10-2005, 06:54 PM
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RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
I bought the Discovery almost a year ago and also the smaller Beaver. I flew the Discovery with floats and the constant exposure to the water may have accelerated the rot, mildew, that it developed in just a few months. The wood in the tail section was beyond repair. While it lasted, it flew well and an easy plane to control.
After several threads re moist wood, I decided to leave the Beaver on my shelf to dry it out, although I did not detect moisture. I sure like the details on the Beaver, but I have read several Beaver owners reporting bad stall characteristics. All had one thing in common and that is wing tip stall while banking, and snap roll as a result. All crashed. I have several other float planes and not in a hurry to build the Beaver. My ModelFly Cessna on floats has been a sheer joy to fly. If the Beaver flies as well, I'll be satisfied.
After several threads re moist wood, I decided to leave the Beaver on my shelf to dry it out, although I did not detect moisture. I sure like the details on the Beaver, but I have read several Beaver owners reporting bad stall characteristics. All had one thing in common and that is wing tip stall while banking, and snap roll as a result. All crashed. I have several other float planes and not in a hurry to build the Beaver. My ModelFly Cessna on floats has been a sheer joy to fly. If the Beaver flies as well, I'll be satisfied.
11-10-2005, 08:53 PM
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RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
That is Tip Stall.
The Stilleto and Chipmunk had the same problems (They did share the same wing after all.)
Looks like the secret with the Beaver is to avoid steep turns and also keep the speed up through turns.
You could also set both ailerons with a little amount of "up", say 5 degrees or so. That is what we used to do with the Stilleto and it did help.
The Stilleto and Chipmunk had the same problems (They did share the same wing after all.)
Looks like the secret with the Beaver is to avoid steep turns and also keep the speed up through turns.
You could also set both ailerons with a little amount of "up", say 5 degrees or so. That is what we used to do with the Stilleto and it did help.
11-11-2005, 01:14 PM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
Ive been interested too in V-Mar planes but now im turned off at the prices.Realy going up fast wounder if the quality is getting better as fast? I found a site that has great planes called AK models from towers list of Mfg's.They to me seem to be my next choice due to their lower prices.
11-11-2005, 06:21 PM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
LDM,
Have a read through the VMAR Mig 21 thread:http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3515389/tm.htm
There is nothing wrong with the VMAR jets. They all fly o.k.
I have seen an early release F18 in action and it flies just fine.
There are always negative comments made about VMAR in any thread appearing about the brand. And the negative comments usually come from the same people, over and over and over again. And you can bet one thing. They have not had a real close look at a VMAR kit in years.
Sure, the early VMAR offering were terrible. I have had 2 or 3 that lasted a very short time, but on the other hand, my oldest survivng ARF is a VMAR Ramrod, constructed in early 1998. It is flown regularly.
But they are not as good as World Models many will say.
Well I have a World Models Super Sports 40. it is now 8 years old, it. I put it together shortly after putting the Ramrod together.
Now we have all heard how marvellous World Kits are, especially from the VMAR knockers.
But I have not had anyone of them answer me, when I commented in a thread on that particular model some time back, that
1)I had to chuck away the supplied undercarriage legs and supply a Dubro nose wheel leg as well as salvage the 2 main legs from a crashed Seagull (now Phoenix) Scanner. Why? Because the ones that WM supplied were so thin that they would have folded up on the 1st landing.
2)That the supplied wing joiner was only some 2 inches long and as thick as an APC prop blade, so that I had to put a fibreglass bandage around the wing join.
3) That the aileron torque rods had no bearing around them, they just ran against (and eroded) the wood in the wing TE and in no time became so sloppy that the model was unflyable. I had to cut down to the torque rods, remove them and fashion and install a bearing from hardwood dowel, before glueing the whole thing back together.
4) That my friend and fellow contributor, tiANci of Malaysia, bought the same kit about 12-18 months ago. On its 1st outing, the whole internal nose structure fell out because it had not been glued in at the factory.
He also mentioned it on this website. Not a comment made in return!!! And so much for World Models quality!!!!
Name me one ARF Kit that you have used 100% of the supplied fittings and built without the slightest change or modification?
And lastly, you have a VQ P40 right?
It does not have Oracover or Monokote covering! What is the covering?
And despite VQ being a US company, your P40 was not made in the USA. Where was it made?
Yes, KMP/ESM et al, raised the bar in surface apperance (But their kits still have to be modified, just read the threads.) and this certainly put the pressure on VMAR, which meant that VMAR has had to keep improving and that is a good thing. If they had not, after all these years, would they still be in business today? Well the fact that they are, has got to means that VMAR must be selling a lot of kits and we don't have too many threads about them appearing on RC Universe nowdays.
What does that tell you?
Well, now that I've vented my spleen and had my 2 cents worth (and am feeling better. Nothing like venting some bile before breakfast) I will finish up by saying... Go ahead and get an F18 LDM. Sure, there will be items in the kit you will feel you need to change or modify, but is that anything new with any ARF?
Have a read through the VMAR Mig 21 thread:http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3515389/tm.htm
There is nothing wrong with the VMAR jets. They all fly o.k.
I have seen an early release F18 in action and it flies just fine.
There are always negative comments made about VMAR in any thread appearing about the brand. And the negative comments usually come from the same people, over and over and over again. And you can bet one thing. They have not had a real close look at a VMAR kit in years.
Sure, the early VMAR offering were terrible. I have had 2 or 3 that lasted a very short time, but on the other hand, my oldest survivng ARF is a VMAR Ramrod, constructed in early 1998. It is flown regularly.
But they are not as good as World Models many will say.
Well I have a World Models Super Sports 40. it is now 8 years old, it. I put it together shortly after putting the Ramrod together.
Now we have all heard how marvellous World Kits are, especially from the VMAR knockers.
But I have not had anyone of them answer me, when I commented in a thread on that particular model some time back, that
1)I had to chuck away the supplied undercarriage legs and supply a Dubro nose wheel leg as well as salvage the 2 main legs from a crashed Seagull (now Phoenix) Scanner. Why? Because the ones that WM supplied were so thin that they would have folded up on the 1st landing.
2)That the supplied wing joiner was only some 2 inches long and as thick as an APC prop blade, so that I had to put a fibreglass bandage around the wing join.
3) That the aileron torque rods had no bearing around them, they just ran against (and eroded) the wood in the wing TE and in no time became so sloppy that the model was unflyable. I had to cut down to the torque rods, remove them and fashion and install a bearing from hardwood dowel, before glueing the whole thing back together.
4) That my friend and fellow contributor, tiANci of Malaysia, bought the same kit about 12-18 months ago. On its 1st outing, the whole internal nose structure fell out because it had not been glued in at the factory.
He also mentioned it on this website. Not a comment made in return!!! And so much for World Models quality!!!!
Name me one ARF Kit that you have used 100% of the supplied fittings and built without the slightest change or modification?
And lastly, you have a VQ P40 right?
It does not have Oracover or Monokote covering! What is the covering?
And despite VQ being a US company, your P40 was not made in the USA. Where was it made?
Yes, KMP/ESM et al, raised the bar in surface apperance (But their kits still have to be modified, just read the threads.) and this certainly put the pressure on VMAR, which meant that VMAR has had to keep improving and that is a good thing. If they had not, after all these years, would they still be in business today? Well the fact that they are, has got to means that VMAR must be selling a lot of kits and we don't have too many threads about them appearing on RC Universe nowdays.
What does that tell you?
Well, now that I've vented my spleen and had my 2 cents worth (and am feeling better. Nothing like venting some bile before breakfast) I will finish up by saying... Go ahead and get an F18 LDM. Sure, there will be items in the kit you will feel you need to change or modify, but is that anything new with any ARF?
11-12-2005, 06:37 AM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
I have seen and fly a new VMAR planes and other high dollar planes not a plane out there no matter who builds it can take punishment that a newbie gives it vmar planes needs a chance i own 2 and love them both but i am not the crazy type person that thinks there plane is made out of steel and woint break as far as the covering goes if you take care of it by reading the instructions that came with it will last a long time.sure you will get dings but easy repair like any covering.and as far as people buying a VMAR plane from there walk in hobby shops most shops will open the kit or arf box just to let you see if there is anything wrong before to buy it or leave with it or that shop not worth buying at.
11-12-2005, 09:48 PM
#39
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
Woody I appreciate your post but I also appreciate features and benifits when giving a real evaluation of any plane . As far as VQ , personally I dont know why you made the comment on "its an american company but its not made in America " ??? who cares and who said anything about not buying Vmar because there not made in America ??
Comparing vmar to Vq as far as the P40 is way off . THe VQ P40 has weird covering otherwise its the closest P40 in ARf to a Top Flight Kit and as far as Value Vmar cant hold a candle to the VQ P40 .That plane sells for $249 and now on sale at $199.
The Vmar jets (F18) is $329 !!!!!!!!! For $279 I can get a ceremark F16 .
Now on another note I truely want to give Vmar a try on there F18 , but I will wait until I am in the area so I can open a box up myself .
Lastly the comments about "beating " a plane and Vmar being able to take the beating again are irrelavant to the initial Vmar concerns . I dont really care about cheap harware , that is a factor in many arfs , my concern is the weight , the wood , the fit of the parts , the layout ect ect ect .
Remember If I spend $329 plus shipping I can get a Top Flight ARC P51 for $399 and i know where I stand with those planes . All I am saying is that I wish Vmar would start a ad campaign to really address the issues , offer a guarentee on the quality of the kits , offer more on line RCU builds with video ect ect .
Nice planes , bad rep mean poor sales . Lastly who cares if the Vmar bashing is from owners or not , half the info on RCU is word of mouth and most of the time word of mouth from a fellow RC member is better then a formal review [8D]
Comparing vmar to Vq as far as the P40 is way off . THe VQ P40 has weird covering otherwise its the closest P40 in ARf to a Top Flight Kit and as far as Value Vmar cant hold a candle to the VQ P40 .That plane sells for $249 and now on sale at $199.
The Vmar jets (F18) is $329 !!!!!!!!! For $279 I can get a ceremark F16 .
Now on another note I truely want to give Vmar a try on there F18 , but I will wait until I am in the area so I can open a box up myself .
Lastly the comments about "beating " a plane and Vmar being able to take the beating again are irrelavant to the initial Vmar concerns . I dont really care about cheap harware , that is a factor in many arfs , my concern is the weight , the wood , the fit of the parts , the layout ect ect ect .
Remember If I spend $329 plus shipping I can get a Top Flight ARC P51 for $399 and i know where I stand with those planes . All I am saying is that I wish Vmar would start a ad campaign to really address the issues , offer a guarentee on the quality of the kits , offer more on line RCU builds with video ect ect .
Nice planes , bad rep mean poor sales . Lastly who cares if the Vmar bashing is from owners or not , half the info on RCU is word of mouth and most of the time word of mouth from a fellow RC member is better then a formal review [8D]
11-13-2005, 10:01 PM
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RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
I personally have flown a the Vmar stinger for almost a year now, an am glad to report no problems. When I recieved the plane I ca glued all the joints as I normaly do and all is good. I also built my own wing joiner as I heard that the wings like to fold up. This is a great plane and would recomend it to anyone. I am using the vmax 46 engine and love it. It is very predictable and I never had one engine flare out.
11-13-2005, 10:22 PM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
I owned a stinger as a second plane. It flew great, was light weight, and fun to fly. Some things I noticed about VMAR (my brother also owned one of the vmar sticks)--
Poor quality wood. Doesn't seem like real balsa. Some Viatmanese knock off
Poor hardware--they want you to use the ez-connectors for basically all controls--what a joke.
Poor covering--stick on kind. When we peeled it off to recover it after a crash, the color stayed on the wood. The new white covering wouldn't mask it, looked awful!
Instructions--didn't really need any, so can't give any feedback there
Service--pretty good, I guess. I also ordered the vmax .52 to go with it, and my brother ordered the .46 to go with his stick. His .46 was DOA, with a stuck throttle body. They replaced it, but it took a month. My .52 ultimately threw a rod after two flights in the air (and an extensive ground break-in, as per instructions). They replaced it as well, but also took over a month. I sold the replacement .52, before even breaking it in. The owner of that engine still enjoys it today.
I think they are hit and miss. Poor quality wood, poor quality hardware, Poor quality stick on covering, but they will fly. Mine died in an unexpected landing, but the wing lives on in a modified alpha fuse. nice wing!
Order one if you want it, but I guarantee you if you hold a VMAR model, then hold a hanger 9 or goldberg model, you'll notice a difference--like driving a Taurus, and then getting into a Lexus. yes, both cars will get you there, but there is a definite difference in quality. What does quality give you? better rebuildability, better survival in "hard" landings, and so on.
Poor quality wood. Doesn't seem like real balsa. Some Viatmanese knock off
Poor hardware--they want you to use the ez-connectors for basically all controls--what a joke.
Poor covering--stick on kind. When we peeled it off to recover it after a crash, the color stayed on the wood. The new white covering wouldn't mask it, looked awful!
Instructions--didn't really need any, so can't give any feedback there
Service--pretty good, I guess. I also ordered the vmax .52 to go with it, and my brother ordered the .46 to go with his stick. His .46 was DOA, with a stuck throttle body. They replaced it, but it took a month. My .52 ultimately threw a rod after two flights in the air (and an extensive ground break-in, as per instructions). They replaced it as well, but also took over a month. I sold the replacement .52, before even breaking it in. The owner of that engine still enjoys it today.
I think they are hit and miss. Poor quality wood, poor quality hardware, Poor quality stick on covering, but they will fly. Mine died in an unexpected landing, but the wing lives on in a modified alpha fuse. nice wing!
Order one if you want it, but I guarantee you if you hold a VMAR model, then hold a hanger 9 or goldberg model, you'll notice a difference--like driving a Taurus, and then getting into a Lexus. yes, both cars will get you there, but there is a definite difference in quality. What does quality give you? better rebuildability, better survival in "hard" landings, and so on.
11-14-2005, 05:56 PM
#42
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
2 Slow I appreciate your comparison , the only problem is H9 does not make Prop jets and that is what is so attarctive in the Vmar line (at leaste to me ) .
I started another post and asked if anyone can report on the F18 Vmar prop jet , no feedback yet
I started another post and asked if anyone can report on the F18 Vmar prop jet , no feedback yet
11-14-2005, 06:36 PM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
Thanks for the info 2slow2matter. I have not yet had to deal with the covering yet which sounds like a good thing all that I had to do was tighten it up with my iron a couple of times. As for the wood I agree that it looks pretty junky but i havent had anything break on it yet. I also herd about the carbs freezing up. That really sucks. I used to work at a hobby store and never had a customer come in with that problem. I did have customers say that they didnt care for the covering to much, but never had one come in with the wings folding or any other problems. I know of a couple people flying the sticks and the extra 300's with the vmax engines and all like them so far. As for the hardware i used du-bro or great planes. I dont remember which one. I recently converted my stinger to a float plane but havent flown it yet with them.
11-15-2005, 05:19 AM
#44
RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
Hi all
Agree with everything here, a positive VMAR site is a rare thing indeed, I have two Vmar ARF the F4 Phantom and I have just got the Arrow Tiger, this is a lot different to the ones in the Tiger forum inproved, but not required inprovements, good to see.
Mike
Agree with everything here, a positive VMAR site is a rare thing indeed, I have two Vmar ARF the F4 Phantom and I have just got the Arrow Tiger, this is a lot different to the ones in the Tiger forum inproved, but not required inprovements, good to see.
Mike
11-16-2005, 08:32 AM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
Has anyone bought a AK Models airplane,I am woundering if their quality is OK.Also I see a note on there web site that all their planes are in kit form ,but yet it has ARFs.
Thats got me confused too.
Thats got me confused too.
11-16-2005, 04:08 PM
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RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
I have ordered 2 from them last year, they were ok but shipping was high-$20.00 I also can't get ahold of them , tried for the last 4Mo. I think I would go elswhere. [email protected]
01-05-2006, 11:58 AM
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RE: Has anyone ordered a V-Mar plane
There is nothing that i found wrong with a VMAR plane that could not be fix like any ARF out there i have a Apache lll with flaprons and iam going to get the RV4 i have all ready orderd it like was posted on here all ready i just take my time and ca every joint before i start the build process i didnt like the push rods but they work! and on the RV4 Iam going to change the rods to better gear so before you knock a VMAR ARF try one and glue all joints before you build
plain and simple as that
plain and simple as that
01-05-2006, 02:25 PM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
RC,
Glad you like yours. Looks like it's working out for you. SPeaking for myself, and I think most others that are knocking VMAR, we HAVE tried them. And, in addition, we know other people who have tried them.
Again, the planes fly, and most fly well. Cheap wood, junky covering, poor workmanship, and low survivability. I think I could probably hold one together better now. Mine was my second plane. And, we know how rough we are on that second plane. I could probably get one to last a while now, with more skill and craftsmanship!
BTW, isn't that MarIetta, and not MarRetta, OK?
Just a little ribbing....
Glad you like yours. Looks like it's working out for you. SPeaking for myself, and I think most others that are knocking VMAR, we HAVE tried them. And, in addition, we know other people who have tried them.
Again, the planes fly, and most fly well. Cheap wood, junky covering, poor workmanship, and low survivability. I think I could probably hold one together better now. Mine was my second plane. And, we know how rough we are on that second plane. I could probably get one to last a while now, with more skill and craftsmanship!
BTW, isn't that MarIetta, and not MarRetta, OK?
Just a little ribbing....
01-05-2006, 05:55 PM
#50
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Location: frimley,surrey., UNITED KINGDOM
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RE: Latest batch of V-Mar planes
there was quite a long running thread on the british model flying associations site about the vmar beaver 40,myself and many others had big problems with tip stalling on this p.o.s.,all agreed that there was no way a 40 would get it into the air (i fitted a 61),i did better than most,i got it into the air 3 times!,first 2 ended in tip stalls straight in from about 20 feet,the 3rd and last flight seemed to be going well,it was toodling along at about 100 ft altitude,i initiated a left turn and the bloody thing tip stalled at about 40 mph!i did not bother trying to recover the stall as i had had enough of the damn thing!it smashed itself to pieces and i was glad,i will never buy another vmar product again,i agree with the maxim "you pays your money and you takes your choice " but vmar are not cheap,but one thing i am sure of is,they are cr-p!