300!

I just got mine in the mail today and all I have is a Saito 180 and some 9202's. Has anyone tried this combo? Will the servo's be enough or am I asking for trouble?

Thanks,

mike

What are the specs on on 9202s? I am using HS5475HBs on the ailerons and elevator halves, an HS645MG on the rudder and HS425BB on the flaps. I am also using 6.0 volts to power them...

Does yous have the new tail feathers? The new tail has counter balances on the elevators and rudder...

I used all 9202s on the plane except a HS-225 on throttle and a Hitec digital on the rudder. Otherwise, the 9202s are more than enough.

I think they are 76oz. at 4.8v and 90 some at 6.0 volts. They are average in speed, but they are also coreless and have great centering ability.

Tough too!

I have about 6 flights on mine with the 9202s and they are working great.

Jim!

Several weeks ago I called Airborne Models, the importer, about the new tail feathers and to see if I could get a set. The reply they gave me was that their is no new tail feathers and the plans to produce them have been cancelled. That is all he said, no reason why.
Soooo .......
I am making my own modifications to the rudder by adding 2" to the bottom and 1 1/4" to the top with counterbalance. Also adding 2 1/2 " to the trailing edge starting at the bottom and tapering to 0" at the top of the rudder. To add to the bottom of the rudder I had to also extend the rear part of the fuselage down 2", I did it just like the u-can-do fuselage.
The elevators have been opened up from a max of 90 degree rudder throw to 100 degree's and 2" added to the outside edges complete with counter balance. All work should be done in a week or two and I will let you know if knife edge has improved without a lot of coupling and hovering authority is improved.

That is interesting indeed... They clearly (to the extent that PhotoShop was not involved ) made some prototype models as they were seen in several ads...

I don't have many flights on mine, but I think the rudder is plenty effective. It is my belief that KE is more affected by fuselage side area and the amount of air moving under the fuselage than by the rudder. My SIG SE will KE all day long once I put an Irvine 53 spinning a 12.25X3.75 prop on it. Comments? Might as well talk aerodynamics for a while...

Very true GalenB:

Ever look at the rudder on a Super Hots? Or an Ultra Sport?

Very small, but the Hots can easily Knife Edge loop. Side area is a factor, power to weight and CG.

Where IFLYRC4FUN's mods will help is with the low speed flight like hovering, high alpha stuff and of course slower knife edge.

It will be fun to see how it all turns out.

Jim!

I am suspecting that the wings' heaviness contributes to rudder's ineffectiveness. This plane is not that heavy as a whole, 10 lb, because they design the fuselage light, but its wings are heavy for its size. What this means is that its moment of inertia about its yaw axis is greatly increased, since there is a lot of mass far away from the yaw axis. As a result, even with its sizeable rudder, the yaw torque is not nearly enough to overcome the yaw moment of inertia when gravity is pulling on it.

On the other hand, its high yaw moment of inertia helps this plane flat spins rather nicely. Since in flat spin the gravity does not work against the spin gyration, its high yaw moment of inertia keeps it gyrating steadily.

I have learned that the key to yaw and pitch authority is tail moment, control surface, and light weight, and more importantly, low moment of inertia about the pitch and yaw axis. If most of the mass is concentrated near the center of mass, it's gonna be as easy as spinning a ball. If I get to, I want to design a plane w/ really long tail moment, huge tail control surfaces, short nose moment (to keep engine weight close to the CG). Highly tapered wing, so the wing mass is close to center. Actually, I should just get a Sledge 540.

So I think any realistic rudder modification will not improve the yaw authority adequately for sustaining hover and knife edge loop. More power will help the knife edge loop though.

Hi Sean,

I too think that tail moment is key. One of the nicest KE flying planes I have has one og the smallest rudders. My Bruce Tharpe Venture 60 has a small rudder with a long tail moment. That airplane does beautiful KE. It also has a 72" span which is a lot of inertia to roll, but the weight is very low...

I first got my FW-3Dand put a saito 180 on it w/ a 16-8 .. it would jump off the ground in 5', hover at an idle, and was a good flyer at idle. the 3rd day of flying it I went to a Thunder Tiger 91, w/a 14-4.. and got a lot better feel of the plane.. would still take off in 40' and hold, drop, and climb out of a hover (not like a rocket but good)..knife edge is non existant but I could get an inverted flat spin. Also the tailfeathers are stock (w/out counter balances) I think that mod. would be a plus...spins are hard to get into and hard to hold w/my power plant but it is a blast to fly and as stated by others, dragging the tail across the ground is a "RUSH!!!" I THINK I'LL KEEP THIS ONE!!!

Hello everyone, I just got the Fun World and have a Saito 180 on the way. I am wondering why not too many people use this combination. Is it way over kill? I am use to over powered planes, but I could not see buying the 120 or 150 since I was spending the money anyway. Any thoughts. Thanks, Nate

Saito 1.80 Take a look at post 252. The "xxxxxxx" was Saito 1.80. World says it'll shake it to death? Never had one, do the vibrate bad?

I had an Enya 1.55 4-stroke on my FW3D previously, and its power is perfect. Its power is about 1/2 way between Saito 150 and Saito 180, but the vibration was very acceptable. Since the FW3D comes with a soft mount, you shouldn't have to worry about vibration. I now have OS 120 Surpass IIIP on it, and its power is not "Fun" enough. I am planning to swap the Enya 155 back on there, swinging APC 17x6 @ 9200 rpm.

Overpowering this plane would be useful in those tight waterfalls.
The plane structural is pretty good in the nose section and the wing. It is flimsy in the fuselage after the wing in the twisting and yaw direction, but overpowering shouldn't hurt this aspect. As long as you don't do full speed dive followed immediately by full throttle snap rolls, this plane should hold up.

Saito 180 might give you a problem with the soft mount they provide. Saito 180's mounting flange has a diagonal feature in the front face, which may not permit fit with the soft mount gel piece, which is rectangular. You may need to play around with the mount geometry to get it to work.

The saito 1.80 I had on didnt vibrate mine.. It ran really nice and flew the plane good.. But it was too much engine for me at this time w/a 16-8.. but I would like to try it again with a lower pitch prop.. say in the 4 pitch range.... and I did use the supplied rubber mount that came with the kit, no problems there..

17x6 is your best option. Largest 4" pitch prop is 16" in diameter, and 16x4W is too small for Saito 180. 18x6 will give no ground clearance.

I fly an 18 x 6 MetzS and don't have a problem with ground clearance, but it is tight!

Nice performance in the air though. I keep my taill wheel low.

Jim!

Well, pulled the Webra .91 off. Flew fine, but I've already got "fine" planes. Just holding the hover and no flat spin, not good enough. As fate would have it, I just acquired a NIB Super Tigre 3000. I know, TOOOOOOO much, but I've got it now and can't buy the YS 1.40 I want. So what the heck, gonna fly it Thurs. I ran the motor for 2 tanks and WOW power.

What do you all think?

I have a YS 1.20NC on mine and I have a couple of ST 3000s lying around so I have some data to draw on... The ST is a lot heavier than the YS. My YS is 32 oz. and my ST is 44 oz without a muffler. With the YS mine balanced out with the battery under the rudder servo. With the ST you'll need to move stuff aft, and that will be a challenge. I tried to move my rudder servo aft and gave up. There isn't much room with the two elevator servos. The ST will need an 18X10 or 20X6 prop -- do you have the clearance? I will admit that a 20X6 APC prop spinning at 7500 RPM would be an interesting power source for this model. However -- it will not longer be a light model...

On the plus side the ST burns cheaper low to no nitro fuel. My YS consumes a gallon of expensinve YS 20/20 blend every five or six flights! That may get better as the engine breaks in ....

Well, with the ST300 on the nose and the battery moved from under the tank to under the rudder servo, balanced at the recomended CG. That is way forward from where I was before, but a good start.

Flew it this afternoon. What a hoot. Can't wait to get the right prop. I'm using a 18x8, but a 20x6 will be even better. Even with this forward CG, it hovers fine, about 1/2 to 2/3 throttle. I'm still running very rich. Lands slow still, will need lots more time to see the real difference. Haven't checked weight yet, but should be pushing 11#.

Is your ST 3000 mounted inverted? My research was that engine did not like being inverted so I am very interested to learn how yours runs inverted...

Started at 90 degrees 'cause of all the bad talk about them. Once everything else (balance, and broke in) is good, I will try to invert. Nice the way WM makes their mounts to rotate!

I'm using the stock Carb, with 5% moki fuel. after this gallon I'm gonna try no nitro with lower oil. If it likes it (others say it will) I can mix fuel for $2.50 a gallon. Big plus with this fuel hog!

i mounted the rcs 180 a really tough fit rear carb big hole in my exhaust side of cowl but swingin a 18x8 till i get some bigger landing gear to go to a 20 inch athe power is awesome will yank the plane from a harrier to hover and pull out of site at full throttle
yes i know its over kill but its alot of fun

I noticed as I was going through the kit tonight that the landing gear looks a bit weak. I read in an earlier post that people were using aluminum gear as a replacement. What gear have you guys used as a replacement? I will be swinging as 16-17 inch prop. I need some specs on the height and span of the gear so I can order a replacement.

Thanks,

Mike

I replaced my gear with the 4 Start 1.20 composite set that TnT Landing gears sells. The mounting base is a little wider than I would have liked, but it mounted up just fine...

http://www.tntlandinggear.com

GalenB,

How much wider is the gear than the fuse? I measured the fuse width at 4" and the TNT gear is also listed at 4". I had a set of TNT gear for my Sig Cap 231EX which separated after a dozen flights. I ended up ordering a set of Bolly gear from Canada, it took 2 weeks but seems to be a much sturdier gear. Have you had any problems with your gear fatiguing?

Mike