ysteve1

we checked the battery afterwards and it was still registering 5.0V (this was out of the plane) plugged it back into the plane and the ground range check was still good. and since both "actions" happened on oppisite ends of the field, i am leaning towards battery or reciever. The other plane i had at the field flew fine for 5 flights so i at least had 1 intact plane to bring home.

The fix on the Giles shouldn't be too hard but it'll never have that great looking covering. oh-well that's why we buy glue.....

blvdbuzzard

Having second thoughts about putting a YS .63 in the nose of this plane. It is very light and I wonder if the YS would tear it up? It seems like it would fly with any old .45 in the nose. Just wondering if this is going to be to much power for this plane?


Thanks.

Dru.

paul49

Hi Dru,

I have an OS .55AX in mine. Still a very new engine, running it rich, and have only put 6 tanks through it so far. It doesn't feel underpowered but I'm just flying it around getting the feel of it and running the engine in.

Cheers,
Paul.

opjose

If this is the supercharged 4C then it would be a good match.

Not all .45-.46's are created equal... e.g. an LA .46 would certainly be anemic in this plane... I run the LA .46's on .25 sized planes... lesser output .40+ engines would be OK but would certainly not produce unlimited verticals.

Now the "lowly" Tower Hobbies .46's are stump pullers once tuned properly, and do a good job yanking this plane around...

blvdbuzzard

Well I ended up going with MORE power then not. I have the YS-63 bolted up now. Yes it is the super charged 4C engine. It is the same engine I had in my Hobbico Spectrum. That was a good match.

I have been told the Magnums are under powered dogs. I must have gotten a good one because it pulls pretty damn hard.

For the Giles 202 50 I was torn between the YS 63 and the Magnum 52. Both will rip the wings off this thing. I will be getting new servos next week for this plane. I am thinking about the Hobby People CS-601 servos. I am on a pretty tight budget right now and can not spend a lot on new servos. I have read about the 601's and them seem pretty good for the money.

I will be using ball links on both ends of the push rods instead of the kwik links. After flying helicopters, I like the ball links now.



Thanks.


Dru.

blvdbuzzard

Well she is as done as I can make her until I get the servos. She is a beauty. I am still blown away I got it for that price.

She is just sitting here looking pretty. I do hope she flies as well as she looks.

I have to mount the elevator and both aileron servos. It was a total pain to get the the elevator push rod in stalled. I had to fight like crazy to get the forked end through the fuse. It was like wrestling an octopus. Finally got it and it seems solid. I think it would have been better with two servos for the elevator.


Dru.

opjose

The trick to it is to shove a wire or thread through from the tail, on each side.

Affix the wire/thread to each side of the "fork" and pull it out.

It's quite easy.

Consider adding a CF support strut to the elevator, especially since you are overpowering the plane.

blvdbuzzard

It seems to be made for the YS. Balance is right on the money. When I get the battery and Rx in place it will be perfect. I was thinking of putting (2) HS-65MG servos in the tail for the elevators. It will be a month or two before I can get it in the air. I need a Rx, battery, (3) servos to finish it.



Dru.

opjose

The MG's will be fine, although the plane does well with standard to mid torque servos...

mattmc

Everything was going so smoothly! Trimmed nicely, rolls were sweet, then everything went pearshaped. It started a spiral dive to the right. Left aileron didn't have any noticeable effect. Just before it fell below the treeline, I gave up, cut the throttle and concentrated on exactly where it was going down. Our club is right next to the Yarra River and near some thick bush. I've never had to search in there before but I know it can get pretty thick amongst the trees.
I picked out the tree (second biggest gum) where I thought it went down and headed off to search. I was a fair distance away went it went down. I was pretty sure I heard it smack into a tree and was praying it hadn't gone into the river. This time of year (winter) the river is full, fast and cold.
After searching for about 20 mins and no sign of it , I was pretty sure it had come down on the far side of the Yarra. The problem is, to get to the other side of the river, I have to go the long way (10-15kms) via Yarra Glen and into private property.
I thought it might be a long search so I called a friend who was close by for help searching. After a quick drive to the other side of the river and about 20 minutes searching, I found the remains in a paddock about 15 meters from the tree / fence line. Thankfully the cows had left it alone.

I was actually pretty happy when I found the wreckage. I'd already written it off, I was just hoping it hadn't gone in the river and I'd lost everything.

My theory for the cause. Right aileron failure. You can see from the photo, the covering and aileron looks like it's been ripped off and is consistent with the flight performance as it went down. Both the aileron servo's were still mounted and connected ok.

The lesson? It was bought as a reject that had faulty covering. I tried to keep the colour scheme by using clear cover over the main panels. Could the aileron covering have cracked as the fuse and wing had and ripped the aileron off? That's the theory I'm going with.

The bright side is, now I have a spare engine and gear to put in a new plane!

opjose

My take:

That's a classic case of flutter.

A simple aileron failure would have rippd up the aileron at one originating point...

e.g. the horn would have been pulled out, or one side would be fractured with a corresponding break in the covering. Usually with the balsa shearing along the stress point.

In your case ( from your pictures ) the entire aileron is somewhat uniformly fragmented as if excessive vibrations pulled the trailing edge off or up/down. Unless the surface was vibrating excessively, you really don't see the type of fracture your wing shows...

That the horn held up, tends to indicate the control surface was somewhat free to move, too.

So either the linkage gave, a servo gear stripped, or the servo was unable to handle the high loads.

I fly mine with cheap 130oz/in servos ( 9.00 each ), and ( knocks on wood ) the extra torque has prevented this.

The plane flies fast so even in a slight power on dive, with a powerful engine, flutter can be a real problem if something is amiss.

Since you know what you are doing, I'd put my money on the servo gear stripping under load.

kk23

I am almost done my giles but I was wondering the best way to mount the wing with those self grabing nuts that comes with the hardware package.

mtboone

I just built the Giles 202 .50 size and want to make it all electric.....however I have no idea how to size everything. Weight is supposed to be 2550 grams, length is about 1407 mm and wing span 1400 mm.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Matt

opjose

The way you'll need to go about this is to equate engine HP for the glow version to the electric modification.

1 HP is about 745 watts.

The Giles is a .50 sized plane, so you want at LEAST 1.6bHP output from an standard glow engine.

So find yourself a 1200 watt motor.

e.g. one of these will do

[link=http://www.nitroplanes.com/mo604brmo.html]Click me![/link]

Next determine the voltage you will be using...

I'd go for six cells or 22 volts, since you can use TWO 11 volt 2C packs in parallel to obtain the higher voltage, while you'll be also able to use the same packs on smaller planes later... You'll also find that they may be cheaper this way too..

You'll need 2 packs to fly, and at least 2 more to charge while flying... and this is VERY optimistic... ( I usually purchase at least six SETS of packs! ). I'd say 4000mAh 11v packs will be a minimum.

Next get yourself a high voltage 50 to 60A ESC to handle the power output.

You'll need a watt meter, to make sure that you end up selecting the right prop and that you are keeping the power draw within the battery, ESC's and motor's ability to handle.

Did I mention that this will NOT be cheap?

Finally get yourself a range of "E" props to try out to start with.

Put them on the plane and try to find the prop that gives you the maximum power output, while still being within tolerances...

Once found, choose something a bit smaller for your flights to lengthen flight times...

mtboone

This is GREAT! Thanks for the fast reply.

Any suggestion on starting sizes of props?

Matt

'Auger In'

opjose

The review on the web site states that the reviewer started with 13x8, but that MAY have been with a slightly smaller motor as it doesn't say which motor... however he did say "more power than a pair of glow .46 engines" ( he used a pair of motors... ).

That doesn't sound bad, because we tend to put slightly wide/higher pitch props on Electric motors than the glow equivalents... but the props are also thinner which offsets the load on the motor a bit.

I'd run a 12x6 to 12x8 on a .50 glow... so...

You'll be running 22volts if you follow what I mentioned.

That gives about 8800 RPM's at full throttle. ( 67 MPH optimal flight speed w/o climbing or diving )

That's a bit slower in RPMs ( due to the KV rating ) than a 2C glow engine of equivalent output... but about equal to a 4C engine.

You could up the voltage and match the glow engine's 12x6 prop or so, or you could increase pitch and diameter to the 13x8E to get the same end result.

At this point I start playing with MotorCalc, then throw the prop on the motor and watch how it compares to Motorcalc.

If I'm not drawing too much from the motor, ESC and battery, motorcalc then can predict the expected flight times pretty well.

It tends to predict flight times based upon full throttle usage... so 5 minutes at full throttle is really not bad! It can be stretched out to well over 10 minutes with normal throttle utilization ( or more ). 8 minutes is at FT is amazing if you can get it.

opjose

Remember that you'll want to seperately power your servos, at worst put them on a BEC.

I'd recommend an standard flight pack for the servos... that way if you have problems with an ESC or your battery has issues, the control surfaces will continue to function well.

On this size of a plane the difference in weight is minor... or you could even provide a seperate 7v LiPo pack with a BEC for the servos and RX.

mtboone

You seem to be extraordinarily well informed about these systems. Is there a resource somewhere on the internet or a book I could get at Amazon that I could learn this stuff from? I just started but already have three electric planes and just love 'em. The other day I bought a Futaba 7CH 2.4 Ghz now I'm all psyched up about getting the Giles going. I bought the Giles last winter and broke into a cold sweat when I opened it. I had just augered my Super Cub into the driveway, to my wifes' cheers and squeals and was very intimated by the Giles. Now I've spent the summer on a Real Flight Simulator and have gained enough confidence to attack the Giles.

I flew my repaired Super Cub in a stiff breeze over my yard today and took off and landed just fine.......

Thanks,

Matt

opjose

I'd hardly call it "extraordinary"... just hacking away...

In setting up various electric planes I had to learn the ins and outs. Some of it is quite easy once you understand what is going on.

Your biggest problem electrifying the Giles will be that there is no removable battery hatch.

Access to the fuse is from the bottom, and you must remove the wings.

Making a hatch will be non-trivial. Have you done this before?

It would be tough going from the relatively easy SuperCub right to the Giles...

The Giles is a fun plane but it is not a "second" plane.

I wouldn't catagorize the Supercub as a "first" plane either... have you flown aileron planes before? A larger .25 sized or larger electric?

If not I'd caution you to start out electrifying something like this:

http://www.nitroplanes.com/easytrainer40.html

You can use the same hardware/electronics on it, then once you are VERY comfortable with the plane and it's EP setup, move the electronics over to the Giles... you also can merely remove the rubber bands to change the battery...




BTW: Lately I've been flying the Bobcat .25 with a Monster Power motor in it, using 14.8v 3780 packs... I use the same packs and a Monster Power .25 motor in the E-Flite Diamante as well.

I've been VERY happy with both... the Bobcat .25 uses a tiny 8x6 prop to develop high RPM's. The Diamante uses a big 12x6 prop for torque...

mtboone

I just started looking for batteries, charger, servo extensions, etc. Any suggestions? What do you mean power the servos separately? HOw? Errrr....whats a BEC....? 11.1v 2c 4000 xs2 makes my head spin. What's the 7v system? lipo? Nimh? what kind of charger should I buy? A Watt Meter? Watt? Where should I get that? I just ordered the Monster Power 60 and 60A ESC from Nitroplanes.....

Sorry to be a pain in the butt.

Matt

mtboone

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Brand-New-400...742.m153.l1262

what about these batteries. would they work?

Matt

opjose

Bec = Battery Eliminator Circuit.

Most ESC's have built in BEC's which provide power to the servos and receiver.

However as the voltage rises, the on board BEC is able to produce less output. By 14 volts it no longer works.

So you can supply power to the RX and servos via a seperate "flight pack" battery. You must disconnect the built in BEC on the ESC first though.

Separate discreet BEC's are sold for about $18.00 or so. These can be hooked up to a separate 7v LiPo battery. This provides reliable power to the servos and RX. The BEC lowers the voltage to either 4.5 or 6v. Of course you must charge the LiPo battery seperately.

You have a LOT of reading to do from the sounds of things... keep at it, and ask away I'll try to help if my fingers don't wear out first.

2C often is used to refer to 2 stroke engines, 4C = four stroke...

20C refers to the discharge rate that a LiPo battery pack can sustain. A 20C pack 1000mAh pack SHOULD sustain 20 x 1000mA or 20Amps of output.

Usually however at this high of a level the voltage drops too quickly.

A 20C pack can usually BRIEFLY sustain higher AMP draw levels... up to 25 or 30Amps.

( BTW: you want AT LEAST 20C packs! )

DO NOT buy batteries via E-Bay!!!!!



I did over a dozen times and learned that NONE of them are any good. Most are discarded batteries from the manufacturers that are sold off because they do not meet the stated capacities.... in other words rejects.


If you want cheap batteries and can afford to wait... try [link=http://www.hobbycity.com]This place![/link] . Their Rhino & Zippy packs are very good... shipping is expensive so order a bunch of packs at once.... ship EMS and the stuff arrives quickly... USPS can take forever.

Nitroplane's batteries also hold up well, but are higher priced... however offsetting that is that shipping is both cheaper and quicker...

The 10C batteries you provided the link for will NOT cut it! Forget them... I have a bunch like that which are worthless...

This is a good Watt meter: [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LX3605&P=ML]Click me![/link]

Remember that you'll be doing your OWN soldering, wiring, etc. so I hope you have some prior practice...

How about answering the questions in my last post?

opjose

Paperweights!

Avoid!

paul49

Hi All,

Good to see someone else building a Giles. Mine is pretty well sorted now and, as you suggested, opjose, the OS .55AX pulls it round the sky quite nicely. I normally just fly it around at half throttle. Remembering your earlier comments about landing, I spent some time getting the correct speed down final worked out and now it lands beautifully.
In fact, I like the plane so much that I just bought another CMPro - the new Edge 540. Haven't started the build yet but the instruction manual is almost an exact re-print of the Giles except for the wings and tail so it should be straightforward enough. I was planning to put the OS .46AX out of my now neglected trainer into it but a few of the club members have got me interested in a 4 stroke.

So I don't get off-topic, let's say that, if I wanted to replace the .55AX in the Giles with a 4 stroke, what would be a suitable equivalent? CMPro recommends a .52 - .63 4 stroke but a .63 4 stroke is way down on horsepower compared to the .55AX. Obviously, horsepower is only part of the equation. How would an .80 4 stroke compare? It's heavier than the 2 stroke but I had to push the battery and receiver as far forward as I could to get the Giles to balance so some extra weight up front wouldn't hurt. I remember an early poster fitted a Saito 100 but it damaged the engine mount, I think, so perhaps that's too big?

Cheers,
Paul.

opjose

Very well!

The .80 would develop more low end torque, and you could use a slightly higher pitch to keep the speed up. Move the battery pack aft and you'll be good to go.

I wouldn't go with the .63 though... save that for a .40 biplane...


I also just ordered the CMP 20 CC Marathon and I'll be putting a 26 CC Gasser into it... glow fuel availability is sparse around here at the moment... so I need more gassers ( heh )... I purchased the last 5 gallons each local LHS had, and they both tell me they do not know when they'll get restocked.