flynte

My most favorite stage of any plane is when you first set it on the stand!!

cavandish

come on paul you've got too much to do to that house to be on here at this time !!!!!

beaver180

My Feedback: (10)

It's coming along... just have a squiz now and again on my tea-breaks Have you put your undercarriage legs around the RIGHT way yet John??

Chancho

Revolver Gods,

Q: How will a Saito 100 work in this?

I completed my 18th flight with my new Revolver yesterday and had enough of the FL70. That thing is junk. It tached in OK @ 9400 RPM swinging a 13x6 and a few more RPM on a 12x7. The problem being is that the Revolver wants more speed and deserves a better.

So, I have a brand new SAITO 100 in my hands ready to go in this plane. To get the drive washer flush with the cowl I'll have to modify the mount and the cut some of the firewall to make way for the carb screws and venturi. But I'll glass behind to reinforce and do it properly. It's going to hit me up another 4 oz than the FL70 and I'll move the battery back and balance her properly when done.

I picked up 3 props from MLHS, 12x13, 12x12 and 13x11. My initial craving for speed has me now wondering how in the heck I'm going to land this rocket? Even if I start with the 13x11 and can get the engine to idle at 2,200 RPM, she's going to be HOT. [>:]

Any tips. I'm an intermediate pilot and was landing the Revolver pretty decent in some challenging conditions with the FL70, tip stalls, practice landings, etc.. We have a nice asphalt runway but now I'm wondering if I've opened up a can-O-worms by mounting the Saito 100 on it.

Furthermore; - I'll break in the motor on a PSP test stand with a gallon of 15% like I did my other Saito 125 (which now purrs like a baby kitten)
- I'm using S3050, 72oz digital BB Futaba servos all around except a cheapo for throttle...
- WING GAP FIX - I initially had a gap in the leading edge of the front left wing and small gap in the rear of the right wing, I unattached the left fiberglass connecting tube in the fuselage, put the wings on and shimmed it forward. I epoxied the tube back in place and after I shimmed it to fit the wings properly. Both wings fit perfect now with no gaps.. (See pic after fix Sorry I didn't take one before, but there was 3/8" gap!)
- Both of my Ailerons were warped, but I mounted them anyhow and just let the trim take care of it. I balanced her laterally and she seems to track OK.

Am I crazy for the Saito 100, what woudl be the right prop? What do you guys think my results will be?

This is just an amazing plane!
Thanks for all the great posts and expert tips!

Phil

[img][/img][img][/img]

HUNTERANDJEFF

Nice post, Phil. Revolver Gods? LMAO! Your setup looks awesome. When you cut down the firewall, just make sure that your engine thrust line incidences are right. What is the benchmark prop for your new saito and the break in prop? It should say in the directions that came with the plane. I would use that one first and then experiment from there. Although the revolver comes in really hot, a bigger prop usually will slow it down right before touchdown. I have noticed that coming in, said to myself "this is way too hot" but all of a sudden it is like the brakes kicked in and whala, it slowed down.
I have a 70fs surpass on mine and am running into the same problems that you have and I will change it out sometime this spring or summer to a Jet 60 with a tuned pipe. I used to have one of the fastest planes at our club but someone came along with a Zlin and purely kicked my arse! So, now I have to do something about it LOL.
Jeff

Chancho

Hunter & Jeff,

Thanks! It took me a few weeks to get thru all the threads in order to make sure not to post a redundant request. Its been great reading everyone's adventures with this model and its like several unfolding stories; viewing pictures of everyone's build, final product and the videos... Great Stuff... :-)

I'm not sure on the thrust incidence lines.

On page 5 of the manual it reads:
The stabilizer and wing incidences and engine thrust angles
have been factory-built into this model. However, some
technically-minded modelers may wish to check these
measurements anyway. To view this information visit the web
site at www.greatplanes.com and click on “Technical Data.�

Going to the website and following it down to the GPMA1018 (Revolver) it shows blank data for the thrust angle and the link for the technical page is broken. I've got an email in to their technical support to see if I can get that data.

Regardless, Am I preserving the thrust angle by maintaining the thrust washer distance from the firewall at 117mm and keeping the motor mounted in a perpendicular relation to the firewall? My thinking is if there is zero thrust angle or built in thrust angel, it should have no relevance if I follow the two facts just mentioned? Hmmmm

Your right about the prop and I think I'll heed your advice. Going back to the SAITO manual and the RCUniverse Saito forums; I'll break it in with a 15x6 and if I ever grow big enough "Courage" I'll work my way to the 12x12... But I like the idea of having the air brake to go slow but also the ability to hit the gas and get out of trouble if need be. I have brought it in too slow when the FL70 was mounted and had it tip stall a few feat above the runway. The right wing tip just dropped out of the air. I yanked left and somehow got it to slam down on the gear vs. a wingtip or cartwheel. At that time my gear mount had been reinforced but I didn't read far enough in the threads to read about the Dubro Gear... "So I've got some new gear to order along with a new cowl." I tried repairing the fiberglass gear by dremmelling out a few cracks, epoxy and carbon fiber to no avail. I need to borrow your landing skills ( I may try the stare at the wheels thing, but we'll see) but that was a spectacular landing in the quarry!!! --- Repost of HunterandJeff's flight --- http://www.youtube.com/PC9JEFF

If I can finish the mount of the Saito I'll get some pics and try to get some video. It'll all take time to break in the motor and then wait for the Michigan weather to break.

I hope someone is flying in warm weather about now!

Best Regards and thanks again for the help,

Phil

cmircman

My Feedback: (10)

Phil my past experience with my saito 100 and my cosmic wind minow I would suggest using a 14x8 prop for your combo. You will still have some breaking effect but also plent of speed. Mine hauls my cosmic wind around just like my revolver with the OS55.



Jeff why dont you just goto the Jett 91 and pray that the wings can hanle it??



Rich

cavandish

is'nt it amazing how light saito's are for there size ! I have an 82-lighter than some 50s

I have found that the engine mount comes un-glued fairly easy on the revolver, if I was putting a hundred in, i would brace it up with some light alloy 90 angle and epoxy, i can show you some pics if you are interested.

Chancho

cmircman,

Thank you! I'll start with the 14x8. That makes a lot of sense. I have a Saito 125 and also the Saito 100 both are new, I've only just broken in the 125 and it's waiting for me to mount it on the Corsair. That, however, is another story and thread. The FL70 was the first 4 stroke I put on a plane - the revolver. With over 2 gallons run through it between the test stand and flights, changing props, etc. I felt that I had it dialed in as good as could be and believe it's not the engine for this weight and class of a plane. Perhaps on another plane it will be fine. Or another persons flight characteristics, altitude, wind, who knows - will be fine, too. Sorry to be long winded but sincerely - Thanks again for the prop tip - I'll take it! (Nothing beats experience!!!)

Cavandish,

I'll take you up on any info or pictures you might be able offer for the aluminum bracing. Fuselage coming unattached - NIGHTMARE... I've read about it in the Corsair thread and I believe someone in this thread early on, too. An engine coming off is not worth a little more time in the shop. So, please, hook me up with your recommendations. Attached are a couple photos of what I've managed to accomplish tonight. I was able to drill and tap (4) M4 x .7 mm screws into the existing 40 sized mount. I had to cut away one of the mounting hole locations to accommodate the Intake/velocity stack. I was planning to relocate the blind nut and drill another thru hole for mounting that corner down. The rear view of the engine shows a poor reaming job that I had to modify, prior, to mount the FL70. But I'll have to adjust/ream out those holes to accommodate the Saito 100 case with. They'll be fine with filler and washers, I hope. I'm thinking now to put a couple aluminum plates over the two sides that would extend over, above and below the fuselage to add reinforcement. (As the engine is mounted sideways the two engine mount halves hang over the top and bottom of the fuselage 1/16 top and bottom.) And of course add some glass and epoxy to the fuse area, too. The profile of the engine on the mount shows the two carb screws sticking out that need have material removed from the fuselage to accommodate their intrusion. This was necessary to get the 117mm distance to the drive washer.

Gents, Thanks again. I wish these threads were available 20 years ago...

Best Regards,

Phil Green

HUNTERANDJEFF

Yaknow, Rich, I've been looking at the Jett site for a while now and I don't quite know which one to get yet. Going to a larger size (90) vs smaller (60) I would be giving up something rpms and weight. There is no doubt in my mind that those wings can handle 150 mph + after all the plane can handle 3 consecutive full snap rolls at full throttle (I've done it)LOL. I need a mathmatition to figure out which one is the best, huh?
I was going to go flying today but it snowed 3 inches yesterday GRRRRRR.
Jeff

kranie

I test flew mine for the 1st time yesterday- wow!

with an OS 61FX turning an APC 13-6 the performance is very good. I used to think my Venus with an OS 50sx was fast!

Nice thing about it is that the plane required no extra weight to balance!

Chancho

A Saito 100 Does Fit in the Revolver... With a little bit of work.

Attached are a few final pictures of the completed modifications. I kept the original mount because the witness marks line up the center of the thrust washer with the cowl nicely and I didn't have to move all the blind nuts, etc. I was able to use 3 of the original bolt holes to secure the mount to the fuselage. One mounting hole and screw was sacrificed to remove part of the mount and fuselage in order to fit the Intake velocity stack and its screws. I used a combination of 4/40 screws, blind nuts and inserts to attached the aluminum brackets to the top and bottom of the fuselage. I drilled and tapped M4 screws into the composite mount and made liberal use of Loctite. It is very rigid and shows no signs of fatigue after a few tanks run through in the garage and another 1/2 tank in flight. It all fit pretty good and the only thing I could do now is get a new cowl and re-cut it specifically for the Saito 100 vs. the O.S. FL70.

Hunter&Jeff suggested I preserve the thrust line and it was. A good friend who likes to drink my non-decaffeinated coffee, Rich Sparling, came over Saturday to help. I impart a little coffee and sugar and he gives up his wisdom and free time. We talked thrust angles, brackets and all the other pent up hobby stories we had saved for one anther. He even passed me a spare set of the Dubro model 789 gear he had lying around. "What a guy!" Much like a couple fat chicks in tight summer dresses we complimented each other not on our fanciful curves, but rather about our supernatural pilot skills, achievements and such. :-) Rich showed and explained to me the built in thrust angle. I didn't bother extrapolating it from measurements as it is no consequence nor is it published by Great Planes. We concluded that as long as your engine's drive washer is 117mm out, somewhat centered in your cowl and you mount the engine/motor perpendicular to the fuselage face, you will achieve the models intended thrust angle.

I don't have a scale to weigh the model, but besides the few extra oz for the engine, I have a Sullivan Glow Driver and am carrying an additional 3 oz battery for it. (I'm only using the glow driver to start the engine - then I shut it off.) My main battery is just over 4oz and sits near the back, left-side of the fuel tank, after rebalancing. In the process of adding 1.4 oz of brackets and hardware I decided to trade 1.25 oz for a micro servo vs. a full size S3003 servo and plywood tray for the throttle. That was really hard to set up because you have to make sure you're not hitting the cowl and I like to set up the throttle linkage so that it transitions full range with no servo jitters.

Test flight was this Monday. I was the only one out at the Flying Pilgrims field and wanted to prove the new motor, gear and throttle set up. The visibility was poor with a dark grey sky. Crosswinds were a blustery 15 mph, gusting to 22+. Taking the Revolver off in any condition isn't hard. It is the landings that make the hairs on the back of one's neck stand on end. The wind was pushing the model out and actually flying any plane in that kind of weather isn't enjoyable. After a few passes I checked my vertical and it was only limited by my sight. :-) If it weren't for visibility I would have taken it up a lot further just for the grin of it. A few full speed passes later the wings were still on and the motor was still attached. Cmircman recommended I start with a 14x8 and he was dead on. That prop did exactly as advertised; "a nice air brake and plenty of power." I keep wanting to bring her in slow, but she wants speed and throttle management right up until the wheels kiss the asphalt. I'm just not in the zone yet, every time. I had rebalanced the model, both yaw and pitch and it only needed a click of up elevator as I erred on the side of forward balance. It took me about 7 attempts to land. I had to land the plane sideways with the wind and that was almost too much for my nerves. But the Dubro gear made my rough pilot skills shine there. I ended up defueling about 1/2 tank. She's ready for another day and more favorable winds and sky.


This is a fun and slick little plane which I believe deserves lots of power. It is nice to be able to hammer the throttle when your coming in for a questionable landing or other compromising attitudes. With the larger fan there's more air available under the control surfaces if and when you need it. I know and believe the other posts that she'll fly fast and just fine with smaller engines, too. I just like the torque, sound, response and am bias for the 4 strokes. Like a good woman, if you get your 4 stroke in tune she won't talk back to you, give you any grief, quit when you need her and she'll jump off the ground when you kick her in the pants. (Sorry ladies, but it's true for my taste in airplanes, anyhow.)

Now when someone puts a 90, 2c on this thing, Man! That's going to be wicked!

I don't think I'll jump up to either the 13x10 or the 12x12 right away and hopefully this plane will make it thru a heavy flying season..

Hopefully I can break out early today to get out to the field. It's going to be chilly, but sunny and 7mph winds.

Thanks again for the help and all the excellent posts. We'll see you all at the field this summer or the Toledo show this weekend!

Best Regards,

Phil

HUNTERANDJEFF

That is pretty good work Phil. Congrats! Keep us informed (intrigued!) on your progress, and maybe a video?? I am still checking on the Jett engines but at $400.00 plus I am still kindof balking. We'll see in another month. I may end up puting a TT 91 pro in it for S!%$ and Giggles.
Jeff

Chancho

Thanks Jeff,

Man you've got the bug... Your right about $400 being a lot, but it would make a great story! Either way you go it's still a rocket ship. Even the video with your 70 Surpass looks fast enough. But don't talk to me or I'll just encourage you to show us more speed! I'm sure someone with even an O.S. 55AX, or 75AX, stock muffler or Jett muffler would rip a few holes thru the sky and leave me in their prop wash. My little 100 is only 4 stroke. So I'll sound good all day, but I doubt I'll get anywhere near 150. Furthermore, a TT .91 at 2.75 HP would come close to proving Einstein's theory of Relativity... You just might fold space/time with something like that.

I'll see in the ensuing weeks if I can scrounge a video of sorts and keep you "up to speed." I doubt I'll find a radar gun, but maybe I can hunt down the guy in the threads with the Doppler software

But I applaud you for thinking about it. Keep up the good posts, videos and such and we'll see you at the field in a few hours!

Phil

"A picture of Jeff after he hits full throttle on his next Engine...."

HUNTERANDJEFF

Ha, Ha Now that picture is a real beauty!!! Looks like a bush baby. After thinking about it for the last couple of days, my mind is made up. I am going to do the latter. You see, I want a Piper super cub for my primary float flyer and I am going to put the 70 surpass in it so I have to have a replacement for my Revolver - Why not go HUGE!!!??? As long as the balance is right, HUH?
Jeff

kiosk

My Feedback: (14)

hey guys, I got a Revolver now with Evo 61NT and 11x7 prop....runs pretty fast but want to find out if I can put in an OS 75AX, is lighter than Evo 61 and more powerful, anyone?

cmircman

My Feedback: (10)

Chancho just get me some good video and I will dopler it for you. With the 100 in there I am almost positive you should be able to get 150 out of her !




Rich

Chancho

Jeff,

From a Revolver to a Piper Cub... That sounds about right just to bring the adrenalin down to normal, afterword. Man, your going to love the more power when you get it rigged up. If you're worried about weigth, don't be. If you have the Suprass 70II, it shows it at 20.5oz ; The TT .91 reads it weigths 19.83oz and that's without a muffler. My Saito 100 weighs 21.6oz with muffler, per my digital scale. Plus I've got an additional 4 oz of Sullivan Glow driver plus batteries. I'm an additional few oz on my support brackets and saved an oz on the throttle servo. So I think if you add it all up and even put some additional braces in your engine compartment for the .91, I think you'll be at a very close weight of my plane. And the plane flies just fine at that weight. If you balance your CG you'll be good to go and you won't even notice. The only thing I did notice was the mess the pilot made under the covering when I went to dissasemble the plane. They should have put a diaper on him for people who bump up the power because he got all sick and stuff... Anyhow...

I got out today and really had a chance to break in the plane with the Saito 100 with 5 flights and different props. I tried the 14x8, 13x10 and 12x12. I had to kill power to land with the 12x12 as she came in too fast to land at low idle, as anticipated. It never wound up, either. The 14x8 is too slow. But the 13x10 is fast, has excellent response and unlimited vertical right after take off and I'm curious to get a radar gun on it. I had to bring it in the pits, remove the cowl and the access hatch just to see if everything was still glued together. Everything in the firewall looked solid so I think the plane is going to hold together. I was just worried about the wings at those speeds because you can hear the whole airframe whistle when your coming in high speed. But she takes it! Just a nice flying plane..

Anyone questioning if they should put more power, please do. :-) You can always throttle back, but once you get a taste for speed in this plane, I doubt you will. I'm looking forward to reading more stories and seeing more pictures of larger power plants on this plane. AND MAKE SURE IF YOU HAVEN'T BUY THE DUBRO GEAR. I can actually land in grass now and I don't have to worry about nosing over at the end of the runway.

Have fun all,

Phil

Chancho

Rich,

Thanks again for the help with everything. Again, your Saito info was right on. I will take you up on the Doppler offer as soon as I can get some video. Sunday may be possible but I'll let you know as soon as I get it. I bet it's close to your 55AX - those suckers just scream!

It would be great to do some pattern flying with you guys! Bring your Revolver with the 55AX, Jeff is going to bring his with is new TT .91 and my Saito 100 will take up the tail end of the formation. I don't think I'll be able to keep up! :-) 150? Hmmm I wish, It looks pretty darn fast. I just can't tell how fast these things are. Its definitely over 100 ... We'll see.

Peace out!

Phil

HUNTERANDJEFF

Well I did some research today and Yes, the thunder tiger 90 is only 19.83oz. Funny thing is that most manufacturers are stating that it is 19.83oz with the muffler but I hardly believe that. My 70 surpass 2 weighs 22.5 oz and has 1.1 hp at 11,000 rpms. The TTpro has 2.75 hp at 15,000rpms which it will do with the right prop. The TTpro is $189.00. The cool thing about all of this is that I have a brand new slimline pitts syle muffler for this engine! I will have to buy a new cowl though. This motor will put me at least at 140mph.
So, all excited about this I looked up Hobby People to buy the Piper super cub (which will be my summer time float flyer) and they are all out of stock still. Have been for a couple of months. I don't really want to do this swap untill I have that plane in hand.
I remembered a video on Youtube of a guy totally wiping out his revolver so I looked it up this morning to see how much damage the wing tube did to the wings on impact and I couldn't see any real damage of it ripping out of the wing. So, Yes this plane can take 150mph plus (the tail is very strong too just not the landing gear area). All of the surfaces must be taped to stop flutter too. Just don't pull up too quick or you might shear something.
Jeff

cruzomatic

My Feedback: (17)

Here's mine. Fast plane, handles well.

rcfan450

I think I've mentioned before that a friend of mine is going to get one and do the unmentionalbe... he's making it electric! He swears he can get a equivalent of a 160 2 stroke in it no problem. So when he hits 175 on the flats, we're all going to look dumb.

That Saito 100 sounds fun. I've got the 82 (as you may have read in the past) and it's pretty sweet. I haven't tried it yet, but I've got a 13x10 ready to go for it. I think the 13x8 is a good match for the motor though. the 10 pitch may be too much for the motor, I'll get faster dives though!

Chancho

I read that about your electric friend and that will be just something to see. I wasn't quite sure what to think except that I hope to read about it if he decides to do it. I don't know all the electric motors and such, but I know it's possible. That will be totally sick!

Yup, I almost bought an 82 after reading thru and up to your post as I didn't think the 100 was possible at that time. But then I look at the specs, weights and hp. The 100, 4c is only .3 more hp (@ 1.8) than the 55AX, so what the heck. Your 82 inspired the 100, though. :-) They're very similar engines and just sound and perform great. And yeah, if you love your 82 you'd enjoy the 100. Are you using the Velocity stack? I'm getting good results with one.

I hear ya about waiting Jeff. If anything this hobby rewards patience and punishes haste (As we all have learned?) And most of the hobby isn't about the moment of flying its everything else going up to and around that point. Hell, I had fun with my plane in the box just reading all these threads for the longest time. And I do need to think of another plane like a cub or Ultra Stick or something just to relax with. And, Jeff, what do you mean by taping the surfaces? I'm going to try to look it up, but I'm not doing any tape - maybe I should be?

I'm really worried about the wings staying on. I just re-tuned the engine with a 13x11. I didn't think it would spool up but it sure the heck does. I am afraid to burry the throttle on a dive. I'll gas it at the end of one but not full out in a dive. Its bad enough on a level pass around the field as the motor unwinds. In a dive I think the pilot will eject or unscrew the wing bolts or something, just to make it stop. He doesn't talk to me anymore and just stares out the window. Go figure :-) Like Jeff said, though, something might sheer! And I don't want to be the one. I just got finished with a very thorough post flight inspection, ironing loose covering, verifying tightness on all engine hardware, etc. Everything checks out OK. 5 flights today, almost 1/2 gallon of fuel. BTW, The 100 gets 15 minutes of mostly full throttle with a couple gulps of fuel left to spare out of the 14oz tank.

The problem with the latest setup is that with that much pitch I'm landing after the runway - it never slows down.

Nice Plane Cruz!

rcfan450

Sounds like it's time for you to get some good video and let our man, cmircman, get the doppler software going! I'm positive your getting at least 125 on flat fly-bys. Sure would love some video of it.

I am not using a Velocity stack. What type of performance did it enhance? Top-end, bottom-end, response??

HUNTERANDJEFF

It is amazing to read this entire thread. What a story! Started off - "has anyone heard of this plane" to building it, selecting engines, flying, re-building the landing gear and NOW, ( I kew this was going to happen sooner or later) ALL OUT SPEED! How fast can YOU make your Revolver go? LOL so predictable. I love it!

Taping that I mentioned earlier is taping the hinge lines so there won't be any gap between the stabilizers and control surfaces. At super high speeds and massive air pressures caused by speed, air gets going through these small gaps at a rather high speed causing the control surface to flutter. I've seen it so vilolent that it acually tears the hinges and the surface comes off in flight. I lost a F-20 tiger shark last year because of it. I wish I had video of that because it hit the ground at over 100mph. Yes, it went to pieces, I miss that plane.
Jeff