Flat spin is a great one.  I did a few this morning with aw edge 540 46-60.  It does them really nice.  I just usually go into a vertical stall and when the nose drops full left aileron, then full right rudder, then transition to full down elevator while letting off the aileron.<div>
</div><div>Anyone have a great transition move at the top of the stall before downward roll?</div><div>
</div><div>At the bottom I let go of the control and the nose drops, picks up a little speed and does maybe a full roll and then I can easily pull out of it.  My ultra stick does them, but never really gets to be a "flat" spin.  Nose is still in a downward pitch.  Probably need to max out the throws a little, the cg is pretty far back.</div>

I've tried to get my Pulse XT40 into a flat spin numerous times. I've got alot of throw,and I've added some weight to the tail. These things combined with a certain technique have gotten me very close. The technique is to go WAAAAAY up high,stall and put sticks in the bottom left corners to enter a normal spin. Then gradually bring the throttle up to full to get it spinning faster(keeping the full left rudder). Then gradually bring the aileron across(keeping the full up elevator),and then slowly all the way to the opposite side(do this too quick and it always comes out and begins to roll the other way). When I do all these steps at the right time,the resulting spin is much faster,but at a shallower angle and doesn't lose altitude as fast as it was at the beginning of the spin. It looks cool but takes a lot of altitude just to get it flattened out. To exit,seems like I center the sticks,and then give a little down elevator and right rudder. Sometimes takes a revolution or two before it comes out of it,but the correct elevator/rudder input gets me out quicker than just letting go of the sticks.
A flying buddy has a 1/6th scale clipped wing cub that will do awesome flat spins!

here's what I've been trying to do after learning a blender......the Knife Edge Spin.


see video at 00:38

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYrI_LY9wfE


PS...this young guy is sponsored, so hard to duplicate his skill.

Just before you stop on the vertical give full rudder to bring the nose around with a slow and graceful wing-over. Before you pick up speed give elevator as needed for upright or inverted while holding the rudder.

Another cool trick is to do a tail-slide instead of a wing-over. This is especially nice with smoke as the model disappears in a cloud and comes out in the spin.

Idon't try the spins until the second tank of the day. If you don't have a reliable idle or have a model that frequently dead-sticks you can get in trouble. Another reason for height with spins. If you are in the habit of powering out of a spin (opposite of what a full-size pilot is taught) and suddenly the engine konks you may be in for a shock.

Another thought - some models will flat spin better five minutes into a flight than right off. Depends where the tank is. And also, Ihave been told a rearmost C.G. makes it easier to enter an invertedflat spin but harder to get out of one.

The fuel tank in the aw edge is so big that I need two clicks of up elevator for the first 7 or 8 minutes after 15 minutes the plane gets kind of squirrelly (tail heavy).  Right in the middle it fly's great, holds an inverted 45 up line great.  <div>
</div><div>How do you execute the knife edge spin?  looks like a lot of fun.  Man that kid is good at flying.  I wish I started that young.  My fingers (and nerves) take some warming up first.</div>

How about a vertical snap to stall, hammerhead it and blender time.


Steve

CGR, I have the card for the blender too!!! CG of the plane is a must. My best spinning plane is my CG Extra and at over 13 pound with a 68 inch wing I'm not going to bring up anything about wing loading. The CG on this plane is so neutral when you go inverted you almost have to add no down elevator at all. Breath on the stick and the plane moves. My Hots is just OK but it is CGed just a bit more forward then I set up Extras at. The more aft I make it it spins better but that's about it. As it is if the Hots doesn't get away from me a couple times a day it's because I haven't flown it.
I watched some of the video DJ posted, that kid is really good. Young reactions, young eyes and about 10 times more throw then I have ever put into a plane. Sometime I'm going to have to buy a small 3-D plane, an ARF and a cheap one because I know it isn't going to last. I would like to see if I could ever control a plane doing things like that at that speed. I have my doubts. I used to do a nice rolling circle, I used to have a 30 inch waste too!!!

I thought that was you. I was just going to ask what those green things you were flying around, but I read further and saw that it was not you. Wphew.. I was going to ask if one of those moves was a flat spin... I was sooooo confused.. [sm=bananahead.gif]

CGr

You guys are to much!!! This is good stuff. Even though this is a beginners forum, this is all new to me so, as far as I am concerned, this is all beginner stuff.

Aaaaaaanyway, kom73 had a good point about fuel, fuel tanks, and fuel consumption. I have a pretty large tank for that Super Star. Would it be preferable to use a smaller one or should I leave that alone. Remember that the engine is an OS 1.60 FX. I have no idea what prop to use on this combination, either.

StevL... a vertical what? [X(]

Yeah, Gene.. that was some flying. I saw all sorts of gizmos on the wings and it just launched out of his hands.. but it was a fairly large profile "foamie". Nice.

Yet again, I have a lot of work to do on my Super Star. I don't it will hand launch, though... [&o]

CGr

Yeah, Gene.. send it. Hey, I can have some fun with one of my cheapie foamies before I attempt that with anything else that is a tad more expensive.... [X(]

To tell you guys the truth, to set the CG, if the nose dips with an empty fuel tank, that's ok with me. Methinks that I need a little bit more work on my center of gravity to do some of this stuff...

CGr

I think I saw my name mentioned. Yes, I am still alive, kicking and flying & writing RC. R/C Report is still there, although we are now web based, instead of being a print magazine. The good thing about being on the web is you can go and download any back issue except maybe the ones where R/C Report was a newspaper type magazine.

The last time I published flat spins was the November 2008 issue. [link=http://www.rcreport.net]RC Report Online[/link]

I've done flat spins in probably more than a hundred different airplanes and most planes can be coaxed into one, given enough control movement.

Generally speaking, you enter a normal upright spin, go to full power and slowly cross the ailerons over.

I normally enter from a full power snap roll and let the plane fall into a high speed, full power spin. Left is best due to torque. Full up, full left aileron, full left rudder & full power. The plane will snap for a couple of turns, then fall off into the spin. Then I start easing the opposite aileron in, while holding all the other controls.

If you have the wide 3D type ailerons, you have to be careful not to kick the plane out of the spin. The prop blast will let the big ailerons just roll the plane out of the spin. With normal size ailerons, say 1"-2" wide, you can probably go right over to full opposite aileron. The nose should pick up and the plane enters a flat spin mode. Notice I say "mode." A flat spin is not always exactly horizontal, depending on the plane, controls, CG... You will notice the nose come up and the spin change "looks." Once you see it, you'll know what I'm talking about.

Some planes will get flatter by easing off the up elevator and maybe using some down. Some are helped by easing off the rudder. You have to experiment to see what works with your specific plane and set-up.

As for setting up your plane, generally, a more rearward CG and more control movement helps.

Nearly all planes will come out when you release the controls. If it doesn't, leave the power at full throttle and put in opposite rudder, right in most cases, until it comes out. A few weird planes I have had, I needed to fight to get them out. Two in particular were a delta and a swept forward flying wing from inverted flat spins. I got the SFW plane out finally after holding the opposite rudder for 2 full turns. The delta pancaked in with very little damage.

I know the pink clashes with the rest of the color scheme, but I couldn't see the darn thing very well and had that color trim handy.

Geeeez.. Thanks, Ed. What an honor!!! Yes, you did, indeed, see your name mentioned. Thank Gene (Gray Beard) for that.

I often say that I need more hands to fly helicopters... perhaps I was a tad bit premature.. Thanks again for the description. This is good stuff.

Ummmm.. Pink? I thought that was Bev's thing..


CGr.

HAHA. Yeah, that's definitely not me in the video. This is a young pilot that flies for Extreme Flight RC. I only wish I had 1/10th of his skill.

Yeah, DJ. I fly with Dave Lockhart sometimes. Some of you may know him. I makes me sick.. [:'(] He did a horizontal rolling loop immediately followed by a vertical rolling loop, with a high-wing plane.. not sure what it was, but it was a high wing something. Amazing.

CGr.

CGr

Go all the way to the bottom of this web page and it will give you several different maneuvers. The different maneuvers are in blue type at the bottom. It will tell you how to do it and more importantly....how to get out of it.

http://www.rd-rc.org/

Thanks, ********nut. Your link points me to a very helpful set of instructions.. but... quoting from that link...

And, "most" of the posts so far say "start with a spin". Ok.. I guess maybe I will do what I always say should be done by "beginners". Define a "Spin".

I think I know what you mean, but give me more information.

CGr.

Ok, ********nut, I see it.

I normally do this after a vertical climb, stall turn, then head down. I do a series of aileron rolls but do not add rudder. I presume "the sticks" mean the rudder and aileron. Is that right?

I'll get this.. Video to follow....

CGr.

another thing about spins as well that i have been experimenting with on my models is to slow the plane down as if you are going to do a stall and then add a little left rudder and as soon as it drops the wing add full left rudder while holding the elvater and full left rudder and neutral aileron with throttle at idle do this, begin to releive the elevator to neutral slowly and see what happens, the model should continue to remain in the spin and it should accelerate as well in other words wind up even faster, I have been doing it as well after i get my gp ultimate in a flat spin as well how i do the flat spin with it is power at idle and slow to stall and enter in a normal spin as soon as it spins i start adding throttle and right aileron as soon as i get it flat with full left rudder, full up elevater, full power, and full right aileron I start to take the elevator out but leave everything where its at and it also accelrates its rotations as well and slows the vertical decent.

I learned this technique from flying our full scale pitts and a friend of mine giving me some advice on spins and what not, i havent preacticed flat spins in the pitts but have messed around with the standard spin and moving the elevator forward but not pass neutral since I figure it will then break into an inverted spin more than likely but it is pretty awsome and interesting to see what the inputs do and also to see how the model acts just like the full scale.

also in the full scale pitts when i snap it I do a quick pull aft elevator to the stall and then stand on the left rudder as soon as the plane starts its rotation i bring the elevator forward, take into account no aileron if anything aileron in the oppisite direction of the snap, but when you bring that elevator forward it causes the plane to accelerate a lot which on my model I have noticed this technique works well for my biplanes not my extras, anwyay just thought the snap rooll stuff was interesting to see how the elevator can make so much difference.

The more I read, the more I realize that I really have to get my mind set on dual rates. I don't normally use them because it's just something to add on to the load before taking off.. where is the switch and what position is it in.

Anyway, it's time for me to grow up and move into a more advanced level of flying.

CGr.

I was wondering when you were going to grow up.

NEVER NEVER NEVER [sm=punching.gif]

How goes it, Irish? I had my first egg-nog of the season this morning. Probably my last too... way to many calories. But it was sure good.

CGr.

I don't mess around with dual rates either. I just leave everything with 100% throw on all surfaces. I then use as much stick input as needed. At least this is what I do with my Stik.

I'm building an Extreme Flight Edge 540 and the throws are crazy. Elevator will nearly do 90 degrees if setup properly. Anyway, I'm told to definitely setup dual rates and lots of expo with this model, so I'm going to have to learn it eventually.

On my Pulse,I started out with dual rates,but later experimented with exponential. I was able to simulate the feel of the dual rates,without having to flip a switch. So now I get the full throw of the high rates when I push the sticks to their extremes,but when the sticks are closer to center as in normal flying,it's fairly tame like low rates. I've flown it that way ever since. This is on a sport plane. Not sure if it would be as effective on a 3d plane with even more extreme throws. An extremely twitchy plane might benefit from using both.

Well, you are right. As DJ above your post stated, he never used Dual Rates either. I started with Expo a long time ago and really never felt the need for DR, so I never used it.

I'll play with it and see what works best for me. I do really like the "soft" feel of Expo with the capability to go full tilt without having to flip a switch. We will see, I guess.

Beginners ought to get some good information out of this thread, mainly because it deals with some of the issues that come up with DR and Expo, and, of course, throw. And the "Pro's" are posting some great ideas and thoughts on the subject. Good stuff!!!

CGr.