Yes, bruce, you are correct again and I feel so stupid [sm=bananahead.gif]. But in all, the rib/spar joint is very solid - as solid as it would have been if I didn't make the boo-boo. Just have to make sure I do the right wing panel the same way. I am going back to reading the plans and instruction booklet YET AGAIN tonight to avoid other bigger and more-costly mistakes. Then I am going to re-read what I read again in the morning. Stupid things like this is what helps ruin a model - not looking close enough at a simple instruction that was right in front of my face if I looked close enough. Will not happen again .

PHOTOS 1, 2 & 3: Remainder of the ribs, top main spar and top rear balsa spar glued in place. Trimmed the main spar doubler back about 1/8" to fit properly above the first W5 rib. Glued these two spars in with thin CA, and when I unpin the left wing panel from the building board I am going to reglue all the necessary top main and top rear spar joints with Titebond II. Will also glue all the shear webs to the tops of these two spars after removing the wing panel from the building board as it is much easier doing it this way than it is to try to do it upside down while still pinned to the board.

PHOTOS 4 & 5: Top and bottom spars squared with each other at root end of wing panel.

PHOTOS 6, 7 & 8: Pre-shaped balsa leading edge glued in place with Titebond II and clamped til dry. Taking a coffee break until the drying is complete.

DRG (Dihedral Root Gauge) redone as per Ken’s modification. Main and rear spars measured and marked for the Dihedral Angle – Bottom edge of gauge tight against the spars and wing sheeting while ‘Rib W2’ edge of gauge tight against rib W2. Pencil mark at location where the outside face of rib W1 will be installed.

W1 rib slid into place. Placement and angle test-fit with DRG upside down as instructed, to keep rib tilted at the proper dihedral angle.

Decided to go back before gluing and check and mark the DRG angle of the L.E and T.E, so that I have some mark in the front and rear of the wing panel to better judge the placement of rib W1. Now let’s go back and try to glue it in again.

Rechecked the tilt (dihedral) angles one last time before the glue dries. Instructions call for thin CA to be applied to rib W1, but I am using Titebond II in case something shifts I have about 30 minutes to adjust it. This is a crucial part of the wing construction so I do not want to mess this up. Looks good so letting it dry while I read ahead in the booklet and plans.

Photo 1 - Front top and bottom main spar marked; Photo 2 - Balsa rear top and bottom spar marked;
Photos 3, 4 & 5 - Tilt (dihedral) angle measured, looks good; Photo 6 - DRG marked at L.E;
Photo 7 - DRG marked at T.E; Photos 8, 9 & 10 - Dihedral angles checked again before the glue dries.

HELP . . . [sm=bananahead.gif][sm=confused.gif]
I temporarily fitted the wing tip plate (WTP) and there is a huge gap that I don’t know how I will fill in. The instruction booklet says in step 24 (I quote) “ . . . there will naturally be some unavoidable small gaps between the parts. For instance, underneath both the top spars there will be a gap. Also, around the backside of the leading edge there will be some gaps.� The two gaps underneath the spars are no problem. I can fill those in. The problem is the L.E gap (which in my opinion is no minor gap, but a POTHOLE). My camera does not take good photographs from books but the photos in the instruction booklet does show a gap by the leading edge. But as you can tell from my attached photos I do not see any way I can fill that POTHOLE in.

Also, the instructions do not call for beveling of the wing tip plate edge that joins the rib bottom, but as you can see with my tip the edges do not meet. Should I bevel the bottom edge to make it meet with the rib smoother? Or if it will affect the wing in any way and I shouldn’t bevel, how do I smooth that bottom edge out to make it meet the rib better? And if any one can tell me how to fill in what they call a minor ‘gap’ at the T.E please help me.

I will skip installing the wing tip plate until I get some answers to the problems here and I will continue on with the next steps.

Photos 1, 2 & 3 - Wing tip plate temporarily installed. All the gaps shown; Photos 4 & 5 - Bottom edge does not meet smooth. Should I bevel?; Photos 6 & 7 - Spar gaps not worried about; Photos 8 & 9 - Severe gap (POTHOLE) by L.E. How do I fill?; Photos 10, 11 & 12 - Here’s where I leave off with the left wing panel. Aside from the wing tip problem, I think it looks good [sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

If you stepped on a land mine and blew of your left leg, would you step on another with the other foot just to get balanced? Build the right wing per the plan unless it means buying more wood. Slow down - Read - Think - Plan - Sleep - Ask if confused


About the wing tip problem, I'm not sure what to do. I have a couple of ideas but not sure if any are good. Think I'll wait and see if Ken has any ideas first, suggest you do the same. WAIT!!!!

Hmmmm... In this case, I suggest just leaving the gap. Make sure the tip is glued in securely, then press on. The "pothole" will be covered by the covering, so it's not really a big issue.

As far as the joint between the wingtip and tip rib, consider it a learning experience. I like to bevel them and check the fit before doing any gluing (goes for all parts - always do a "dry fit" ) You'll be able to sand whatever sticks out when you do the final sanding on the wing. I wouldn't worry too much about the wingtip, it doesn't carry much load, and minor glitches are mainly asthetic.


I know you're excited about this plane, and want to get it done - but Bruce's advice is spot on. Wait and see what Ken does on his, and use that as an example.

Thank you cwrr5, you guys are always such great help: First issue - maybe I will leave the gap and cover over it. I am going to use Titebond II in all the contact points and joints so that if I need to adjust it I have 30 minutes to do so. Second issue - I am learning and always expect I will be. I still have a chance to bevel it because as I stated in the above post, I am only doing a trial fit of that tip, it is not glued in yet so I will remove it and do the beveling. Third issue - I am excited about this plane but I am not in a hurry to get it done, I have given myself to Spring to complete it as the flying time for this year is over with. So I have plenty of time and am not gonna rush. As a matter of fact every time I stop to let parts dry I read ahead in the instruction booklet and plans to see whats coming up. I am going to skip gluing in the tip for now and going on to the next steps of sheeting the root end of the wing panel. And if Ken doesn't have an answer by then I will go on to the right wing panel. I am in no hurry to get the wing tip glued on - I will absolutely wait to see what Ken is gonna do.

See yahs all later - and happy flying (for those of you who still have flying days left. We have been getting non-stop rain for over a week now and now in a state of emergency help to cleanup all the floods throughout the city)

A bit of work done today:

As mentioned at the beginning of this thread I am using Titebond II for the basic construction unless otherwise stated.

PHOTOS 1 & 2: Die-cut balsa wing sheeting WS-T3 glued in place between the top rear spar and T.E.
PHOTOS 3 & 4: Die-cut balsa wing sheeting WS-B1 glued in place between the bottom main spar and the L.E.

I love these die-cut parts. No sanding or trimming has been required yet, they all fit perfectly into place.

PHOTO 5: Reglued all the joints of the shear webs top and bottom.
PHOTO 6: My method of running beads of glue. Got to take care to barely touch the plunger to achieve even flow of glue throughout the application. This method works real well although the tip of the syringe did start to get clogged couple times and squirted a bit too much, but then I just evened it out with a Q-tip.

PHOTOS 7 & 8: Sanding the root ends of the spars, leading and trailing edges flush with the W1 rib.
PHOTOS 9 & 10: Checking the straightness of the root end after sanding.
PHOTOS 11 & 12: Checking the DRG dihedral angle again after sanding the root end flush.

Tigerdude,
I finally got around to looking at your problem with the wing tip plate. Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this, it's been a hectic day for me. Anyway, I've got your problem figured out. I've posted the answer for your problem in my build thread. I didn't want to post it twice so here is a link to my answers, they are post #77 & #78.

[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3439708/anchors_3465673/mpage_4/key_/anchor/tm.htm#3465673[/link]

I hope this takes care of you problem. Let me know if there is anything else I can do for you.

Ken

PHOTOS 1, 2 & 3: Left wing tip plate (WTP) glued on and most of the gaps are filled in. I know you don't approve of spackle as a filler but right now it is all I have. My father, who has been building RCs planes for 20-25 years, has never used anything but spackling for his filler and has never had any problems. His planes have always come out gorgeous. It is very easy to sand and he has never had a problem with cracking, crumbling or flaking. Is there anyone who have used spackling as a filler? If so can you share your opinions, results or comments with me. I am going to get some Balsarite as soon as I can get out to my LHS as it does look better and blends better (I use the balsa colored). If anyone has had bad results from using spackling can you please share that with me. I want to hear about the flaws and/or advantages in using spackling.

PHOTOS 4, 5 & 6: First two ribs and first two bottom sheeting of the right wing panel are glued in place.

PHOTO 7: Trying something different here for the right wing panel. Laying down some tape to wrap around the wing panel to help hold on the leading edge as it is drying when that time comes.

Feeling like I am rushing so I am going to call it a night right now before mistakes start happening.

Why are you applying filler/spackling in areas that won't be seen anyway? Spackle has no strength, only weight. The last place you would want un-needed weight is at the wing tips to throw off the lateral balance. IMO If you think you need to fill in around around the spars at the tip plate, wait til they are trimmed back and then fill with the Balsarite when you get it. No hurry, remember?

Yes, Bruce - you are right again. That's why I am in the beginner's forum - to make an idiot of myself when I make stupid mistakes [sm=bananahead.gif][sm=biggrin.gif] I am sure I will learn some time. Will correct the problem next time I am working on it. Sometimes I feel so stupid doing things like this, there's one thing about being a beginner - another thing to do stupid things.
But I think I know what you are thinking right now "Don't be so hard on yourself. You will learn if you stick with it."
Well, I hope you are right. I want this plane to come out perfect. When the filler dries (to me) it doesn't feel any heavier than Balsarite, but I could be wrong.

No plane is perfect, especially mine. As for being heavier than Balsarite I don't know, but is is heavier than air (none).

BTW - Don't be so hard on yourself, That's my job.

And you are quite good at it too Bruce!!!!

Ken

Had a few hours to kill today, so here is my progress thus far with the right wing panel. Bottom two wing sheetings, all spars, all ribs, shear webs, T.E and L.E all glued in. L.E taped and clamped for the night to dry. I will have both wing panels done by tomorrow and ready for joining together. But I am going to wait until Ken catches up on his build thread to see how he handles joining the two.

Instructions say to align the dihedral brace (ply joiner) into the left wing panel and then wick thin CA into all the joints. Problem with that is that is all the plans are telling you to use, and I never just use thin CA in any high stress points like wing joiners, firewall, landing gear blocks or any other high-stress areas. I only use 30-minute epoxy for these areas - always have, always will.

Ken has requested that I wait for him to catch up before I go ahead and join the two panels, and I am going to honor that request. Let's watch him do it first - he might figure out another way to do the job .

Sanded most of the spackling away from the left wing panel and I am going to wait until I pick up some Balsarite to do fill-ins. I now have a reason to hate Spackling. It may sand easy and for the most part pretty smooth. But it is very messy and dusty sanding it, and it does not blend in as well as Balsarite (as long as you use the balsa-colored variety).

Live-and-learn. Night for now.
~ Steve ~

PHOTOS 1 & 2: The almost completed wing. Both wing tips trimmed and rough-sanded. Next I checked the fit of the two wing panels to each other. – WITHOUT GLUE. Lite-ply dihedral tip gauge (DTG) pinned to the underside of the last rib W5 (nearest the wing tip) in the left wing panel. Right wing panel is flat to the surface with the left wing panel held up with DTG at 3 3/4" dihedral angle. Leading and trailing edges are perfectly aligned with each other and there are no twists between the panels. There are absolutely no gaps between the two W1 root ribs and only the tiniest of a gap underneath the wing at the two W1 root ribs (only due to the fact that one of the sheetings could have been moved over about another 1/16th of an inch (but that is no problem, tiny bit of filling will take care of that).

PHOTOS 3 & 4: Aileron servo cutouts in W1 ribs complete as instructed.
PHOTO 5: Two ply main dihedral braces (MADB joiners) marked with a centerline and ready to go.

Just waiting for Ken to join his wing first to see how well it goes for him.

Skipped ahead until Ken can get his wing panels joined and I can see how he does it.

Got the nose gear bearing temporarily installed into the firewall (blindnuts tapped in and glued). Vertical center line marked to indicate where the inside of the two engine mounts should be. Engine mounts temporarily bolted on (blindnuts tapped in and glued). Measured the front of the prop washer of the engine 4 3/8" away from the front of the firewall as suggested in the plans for the location of the engine on the mounts. Viewed the engine from different angles while on the mounts and took some measurements for the thrust, it is recommended that the LT-40's engine point straight ahead without any thrust. It does note that although 0 side thrust is recommended a little right thrust would be allowable, but under no circumstances should you have left thrust. When I got the thrust measurement as close as I could to the recommendations I *****ed some nicks through the engine mount holes into the beams of the engine mounts to show where the bolts would go if the measurements were accepted.

Before I drill the holes into the engine mount beams for the engine bolts I want your opinion on how the thrust measurements look to you. Look at the pics below please and tell me if the thrust is acceptable or is it going to end up having some left thrust in the end.

If you think it is acceptable I will drill the holes in the mounts for the bolts tomorrow. The firewall is aligned correctly with the plans and pinned against the lines on the plans accurately.

I understand that some alignment may change unexpectedly with the actual gluing of the firewall to the fuselage but hopefully not enough to change the thrust measurements. If there is any chance of the measurements changing significantly during the gluing to the fuselage can you tell me now and I will hold off drilling the engine mount holes into the mount beams until after the firewall is installed in the fuselage.

Thank you in advance

Remember that the plans are based on a .40 engine and I am using a .46, so that is why the engine is larger than what is shown on the plan.

PHOTOS 1 & 2: Nose gear bearing and engine mounts temporarily installed.
PHOTOS 3 & 4: Measured apprx. 4 3/8" from front of prop washer to firewall.
PHOTOS 5 & 6: Thrust alignment and measure.

How would it be with sliding the dihedral braces (wing joiners) into the wing as instructed, wicking thin CA into the joints. After its dry reinforce the joiner with 30-minute epoxy at all contact points?

I trial fit the braces into the wing panels to test for fit and it all looks real good. I was able to slide the braces out of the right wing panel OK with only one cracked rib [:@] but now one of the braces I can not slide out of the left wing panel without breaking ribs. The braces are very tight fitting so it would be very hard to epoxy the braces first and then slide them in, so how bout the plan above, that would be just as strong wouldn't it? Maybe even stronger because along with the thin CA wicked in you have the epoxy reinforcing the whole thing.

Someone please respond!!! As I stand now the braces (joiners) are still not glued permanently in, waiting for replies and to see what Ken does. And please respond to the questions in the above post. Thank you all so much!!!

you may possibly be the most patient person ive ever seen.... my god i wish i could get myself to use a right angle and clamps.... (also... only thing i can see that could be improved... use the pins with the little round ball on top... you hurt your finger less on hard balsa :-D) i would also not recomend using CA at any point that will be under heavy load (wing joint) use thinned epoxy (denatured alcohol or 99.9% isoprophle will thin epoxy with almoast no strength loss 70% rubbing alcohol will work but slightly diminish the strength) to secure the dihedral braces and wing halves together... (also use thinned epoxy to apply the fiberglass cloth over the top of the sheeted wing... CA just doesent cut it in my book, maybe ive been building highpower rockets too long... but i like my planes to be strong)

sand the braces

CA's sheer strength is significantly lower than thinned 30 min epoxy.... even poorly mixed epoxy is way stronger... (sheer strength is the amount of force needed to slide 2 peices of wood that have been glued together past 1 and other) because the wings have a dihedral that angles them upwards you create lateral forces that try to pull the 2 wing halfes apart.. though those forces are low in flight... once you advance to basic arobatics and try some rolls... you may lose half a wing [X(]

ultimatly on a semi, over wing trainer with large surfaces if the thrust istn 100% you can trim it out... (the down and right thrust should be built into the fuse if i remember my .25 correctly)

wow your making me wann go buy a 40...

oh... also when your done with the wing... if theres a little warp in it (from a croked table or warped wood) when you cover it u can shrink the wing back into shape :-D
also if the spars are warped (this is in the instructions im sure but ill say it ne way since i for 1 read right over those big grey note boxes) have the top spar warp down and the bottom spar warp up to balance out to no or little warp. never install 2 warped spars in the same direction (unless you like that whole gull wing thing[:-]

Wow! Building at warp speed again, I see... slow down!

Better method of thinning epoxy is to gently heat it. Alcohol will weaken it, and may not cure quite right. I personally would not sand the braces down, this is one of the few areas where it's important to get a good tight fit.

Whatever you do, do NOT glue the dihderal baces in with CA! Use epoxy, heated to run into the joint and clamp it tight overnight. Use some scrap of the same material to practice until it's second nature - it's actually really easy to get right after an attempt or two.

cwrr5 is correct, do not sand the braces. You want the full strength. Carefully withdraw the braces from the wing while trying not to damage anything. If things were that tight, you should have stopped sooner. Once apart, see if the following will help. Get an old (or new) nail emery board from your wife and CAREFULLY remove a minimum amount of material from the ribs that are too tight. The problem may also be caused by a slight misalignment of the spar and spar doubler or excess glue that may have worked out of the spar/spar doubler joint.

IAW, find the cause of the problem and fix it instead of creating new problems.

Oh yeah, did I mention :slow down and think?

There is usually a better idea just waiting to be found if you will look for it.

BTW the motor looks fine from what I can see but lets wait a little before drilling any holes until we see what Ken finds in the manual. There may be something there that I don't know about. Again, no rus

i never said to turn it into sawdust.... but hes snapping ribs in half...

not to mention the epoxy will fill any voids made by sanding... but do what you like

100% iso alcohol has almoast no structural effect on epoxy...

Nobody said your method would not work or that he would make a pile of sawdust. Just seeking "strongest" solution to problem. Since he needs to remove the braces anyway, he may as well find the best answer. There are cases when your method would be the best one also.

If he had gone a little slower (learned with practice) he would have realized sooner the bind he was placing on the ribs and stopped before the damage

Thank you all for your concern and suggestions. In order to thin the epoxy out and wick it into the braces (if it gets thin enough to wick it in that is) can a heat gun be used? If so at what power?

I am not rushing by any means (although bruce is correct that when I saw how tight it was fitting I should have stopped and corrected the problem right away [sm=bananahead.gif][sm=thumbdown.gif] - now I have a stuck brace [:@]) I am still waiting to see how Ken handles his joining of the wing panels, so they will remain unjoined until I hear from him or read it in his thread.

As for the engine I am not drilling any holes until the firewall is actually fitted and glued in place and I can double-check the thrust.

It may look like I am rushing with the build but the truth is I am just finding stuff to do while I wait to hear from Ken.

I am going to start configuring a color scheme and design on my computer's 'paint' program to help ease my boredom

P.S: By-the-way Bruce, sorry to say I am not married or even seeing anyone at this moment. But I am definitely going out to get me some Emery boards ASAP [sm=thumbup.gif]

HOW BOUT A RED, WHITE & BLUE SCHEME:

Been messing around with my 'paint' program in Microsoft Word and came up with this:
Top of wing red and white with a thin blue trim; bottom of wing blue with white stars; fuselage blue in the front with white on the back sides and red on the top behind the wing saddle and blue on the bottom; stabilizer and fin red with white elevator and rudder.

What do you guys think of that? It is only my first design. I will continuosly be working on it. If you have any suggestions please share, but I do like the design here if you can work your thoughts around that. But I really do believe I want red, white and blue. Although that could possibly change also in the next weeks or months