DéjÃ* vu. Translation: already seen (literally).

Vince, she's looking good! I think you can still do the swept up paint job on the vertical and it will add some flow to the banding of colours. I think the trick is to make the tail colours triangular in shape so the colour division lines are not parallel to the angle of the vertical LE - note how Kevin's is done. I did this on the little Tipo and it wasn't that hard (I actually did it with MK but I think it would be easier with paint). You'd just need to work the transition between the fuse and fin curve and re-mask so that the blue descends a little further breaking the angle of the vertical LE - i.e., not like on Dave Brown's scheme in your pics. Once you nail down that line and shoot the paint, the other colours will follow - you just mask a 1/4" width staying on the edge of the blue. Or maybe you want a 1/8" white division - might be better.

Once shot, measure the height of the blue along the vertical TE and descend down with the yellow to that same height so your "triangles" are all the same width at the TE. Or you can make them progressively smaller by say a third each - blue, yellow and red. If you draw it on paper it will give you a better sense of how it will look. The magic I think is in the curve across the fuse/fin threshold. To give that a nice round shape, use a circle of appropriate diameter to pass a pencil mark. You then just mask following that lead offset just a bit so the pencil is painted over keeping a constant distance from your line with the masking.

It might be easier to draw the three colour separations with a pencil first so then you can mask from the lines down progressively covering upward of your white stripe separator as well of course.

I guess I just find Phoenix's look fast with their swept wings and stabs so I'm thinking a swept paint scheme goes nicely on them. I had to mask constant radius compound curves in the Tipo picture below as the scheme was a recreation of a 30 year old model. I thought it would be tough to do but I actually pretty much eye balled it with a little help from flexible circles I made. It wasn't that hard. The hardest part I found is getting left/right symmetry with curves but fortunately, many of our pattern birds have side mounted engines and a recess for the engine on the RHS so the requirement for exact symmetry up front is lessened a bit - the opening breaks that up which helps. I didn't procure the good 1/4" 3M vinyl masking tape until I was pretty much finished. Unfortunately, I had issues with a $$itty clear coat so I had to do it pretty much over again covering the pin stripes - yea, that was a boat load of fun but that's where the 3M was indispensable.

In any case, whatever you decide, I'm sure she'll be sweet!

Paint on!

David.

Always happy to offer what little insight I may have gained in the interest of beautiful classics! [8D]

I think you're right Mark - the self etching shouldn't be needed on our glass/CF fuses.

Evercoat - that's it! Thanks for reminding me. I don't know where to get it here but I'll look around.

That's why I developed interest in the various can formulations as well. No compressor, no gun. Rattlers have their advantages but also some drawbacks.

Mark, was that LK paint that wrinkled or was it MK covering that did? The enamels are nice in that they are quite glossy when they just finish drying and they level out nicely too at the right temperature if flowed on. I found that wet sanding them down leaves a nice "oily" flattish color base coat. If you really want it to be glossy though, the clear top coat is much more reflective than the gloss on the enamels.

It seems many different paint type formulations use acrylic as a type of plasticiser and adhesion promoter. Most lacquers, enamels and modern urethanes are now acrylic based. Modern acrylic urethanes are better than the older polyester urethanes (polyurethane) we used 10-20 years ago. I hear Imron is great paint but apparently toxic like few others. Personally, I like the idea of reducing the amount of toxicity we are exposed to in our hobby to a minimum so I'm all for un-catalyzed primers and paint leaving 2K formulations to CC's for protection and fuel proofness. While it might seem like painting with kids stuff, using water borne finishes is the future (thanks to the EPA). They are thinner and lighter and after having seen what can be done with them in Jeff's Aurora scratch build, it's a matter of practice and... perhaps spraying equipment. But it's true that urethane will stick to just about anything - it's meant to.

Still, again due to new laws, rattler formulations have and are changing rapidly and I recall going to my suppliers last fall and having to scavenge for cans of what I was using as they were all being pulled off the shelf and replaced with their "current" new formulations. All the Krylon color paint seems to be gone for example and has been replaced with primer/color combination cans. I'm not sure what happened to their primers but those have undoubtedly changed too. The built in primer might not be a bad thing as it might assist with the mixing of paint types if one happens to have gone there as well as promoting adhesion to underling base coats (e.g., white or yellow).

I don't know how much of the model you'll be painting (i.e, just fuse and vertical, stab as well or entire model) but I found that I used something like a ratio of 3:1 primer to paint. In my particular case it was because I was priming in between layers due to mixed paint types (which of course no one sensible would do...) but still, the primer, because it is much more volatile (think, dries fast!) it will also empty at a faster rate than a can of enamel for example. And of course, much of what you are shooting gets sanded off and reshot so you end up needing a fair bit more primer than paint. I think I used 2 x 12 oz cans of white for the base coat, not much for trim colors (well, one can each colour but not necessarily emptied) but about 5 cans of primers. Once sprayed, applied and sanded you only gain a few ounces though not the 8 or 12 oz x 5 which one might at first expect.

I think the botched Tipo CC job netted me an additional 1.25 oz to the fuse paint job. Overall weight gain went from 32.1 oz to 37.8 oz for a total fuse/vertical finish gain of 5.7 oz. The finished wing (part paint/mostly MK) ended up at 30 oz for a total airframe weight of under 68 oz (4.25 lbs). Without botching the finish and using compatible colours as well as perhaps using water based paint, I'm pretty sure I can reduce the finish weight 3-4 oz. It seems to me that a classic BPA airframe weight of 4 lbs or less ready for engine, radio and retracts is doable. In other words, keeping the airframe weight at under 50% of the desired/expected AUW of 8 lbs. Some can build glass/foam 58/65" BPA classics at under 8 lbs but not many at under 7.5. Several end up being 8.5 lbs which results in an over 9 lb take off weight once fuel is added. So with that in mind, my goal is to build my next classic to under 8 lbs AUW (< 4 lbs finished airframe weight) for a < 9 lb flying model. Unless of course we are talking about a model with 850 squares or more.

But all that is a lot of stream of consciousness...

Looking forward to seeing your TT come into its colors Mark.

David.

David - Good suggestions. I am going to give it another look, another color below the blue line, should change everything. This is going to sit a while, I have to catch up on other activities on the home front. More later.
Vince

Well said, good points, and ditto all around David. It was the LK that rinkled, the Rusto covered the old primer with noproblems, and the new primered areas as well with no problems.
I think you're correct re formulations; with the changing requirements with VOCs etc,the manufacturers have to come up with something else to offer. Quite a large market for rattle cans. I plan to paint the wings and fuse on the TT3, no plastic film. The wing is ready for poly and 3/4oz cloth, and should be done this weekend. I'll have to wait until the weather warms a bit, but the paint should go on in lateMarch. I've got a DB 60 I'm finishing (for SPA) which will get plastic film and paint, but that's another story. Appreciate all the feedback from everyone, especially your David.
Hopefully I can ad pics of my P-6 to this thread next year Vince.
Mark

Just had to go back in and re-paint the fin/rudder. The stripes up the fin would have been fine, I needed straight lines, my brain would not compute the up swing. Masked it off, did it. I got a straight lline right thru the back, and had to angle the tape back there, so it would show straight when viewed from the side, looks perfect on both sides now. Now thinking, a yellow 1" next to the blue from nose, taper the stripe back to about 3/8" end of rudder. White space horizontally down the middle, then the red to the bottom of fuse. David, next year a long time away, you mean 2013 ?
Crank

I like that better Vince.

Hi Robert - Right, makes it easier. Going to let this sit for a while, catch up on some things around the ranch.

V

Vince,

you know, that would make an excellent base for trim colours atop! You could run a yellow trim stripe up the fin on top of that. You'd just need a little primer in between...

But I'll stop the arm twisting... I think I'm painting vicariously! [X(]

David.

David - Interesting suggestion. Maybe run some tape first, I can pull that off, and maybe an accent on the ridge ? Below came UPS Wednesday. First time to see one up close, haven't opened the box yet.
V

Sounds good to me!

Hope you don't mind my taking vicarious to new levels.

Hey Doug - I don't mind, that yellow at the blue looks good. I think yellow is going to go right under the blue. A red stripe right under that yellow, with a space, white below. The red bottom is correct.
Vince

Major masking job for just one stripe, then two stripes, more take off, mask, etc. No problem. This is just a prelude, a start of stripe, design. You can see the blue at top of fuse is flat after sanding, after each color, you wet sand the ridges off. This will all turn to nice gloss after final coat of clear. Bottom will be red and more striping, leave about 1.5" white, horizontal down middle of fuse. This stripe was to go all the way to the nose, I have a different idea here, need to accent the yellow at different areas. The paint will flow from bottom of fuse, into the wing, same colors, after this, copy to stab. It has been raining for days, I paint outside, keep dehumidifier running in the shop, keeps all electronics, engines, etc., dry. Back to this when we get some sunshine.
Crank
Upload success, all below

Nice contrast Crank - and I don't mean the paint. We have to keep the humidifiers going full tilt in winter lest our noses fall off. The heat dries up the air so much the needles go off the humidity scales at the zero end. After 3 hours of humidifying we can enjoy about 40% - at least in one room...

Outside? Another story - the cold can wet your bones to the core, but those are days bygone mostly. While I'm enjoying some winter activities, I'm eager for some effective sunshine.

Looking forward to the pics.

David

P.S. Man, I do hope they get this website on servers running on the pipe soon! It's like molasses these days.

David - Your charcoal/grey canopy looks good. Just tried to upload pictures again this morning, 2/7. No luck.

Crank

It worked. Explained above. We are having monsoon's here. Masked off today for red bottom. There are two breaks for the red at the wing saddle. I will try to incorporate these on each side, flow into the wing. More yellow, may use it on the leading edge's. Get the red on, take off tape, then study more on stab top and bottom. As posted, you can see the blue is flat here, wet sanded out. After all color, wet sand, ready for clear. Could the yellow split stripe have run all the way to nose or front of canopy edge ? Yes, except I had something else in mind, all will flow and work out when finished. As can be seen, the masking for the red was done after these shots. Pictures a little fuzzy, forgot to push the macro button. Getting anxious to build a wood kit, this may be my last glass and foam bird. I have unloaded many of them in the last year. Few more here.

2-8-12 - Shot the red for bottom of fuselage. Leave most of paper on, have to shoot the canopy final. Wet sand, mask again for a stripe above the red, need accent. Doxilia clued me in on some overlay re-paint, back to this next week, maybe, travel weekend coming up. With all the rain we have been having, grass is up to my knees, I have plenty of it, fronds on the palms need attention.
Crank

Tape off this morning right before jumping on the John Deere. Won't get back to this until next week, travel weekend coming up. Lot to do, more on fuselage, I have a wing design ready, will copy to stab. Still have to apply final coat to canopy. May extend the yellow to front, line up with front edge of silver canopy, L&R. Belly pan will be red, and top of curvature of wing close to fuselage, need flow from fuse. Set up for new OS61 SF Ringed, Kraft treaded scale wheels, spring-Aire's. I believe these same ol' paint jobs are getting tired. #1 included here.
Crank

Back at it, for a short time. Finishing some projects here, then on to new plane, Pilot Yak, gasser. First gasser for me. Every time I go in the shop to get something, I look at the striping on this 6, it just looks unfinished, waiting on something. I repainted and re-striped. Brought the canopy silver down, to flow with the other lines. Not the best in the world here, but better then what I had. All of this will have to be incorporated into the stab and wing, mainly on the top. Bottom, I can get away with two main colors, couple small stripes. May have to do something with the space between the canopy silver and the yellow. This may sit for a while, anxious to get the Yak finished, new territory for me.
New pictures, may shoot the canopy again. Dox, you can see the definite separation, canopy to stripe. Crank

Vince,

that is better! I think you're right, some sorting out needed between canopy and yellow. I would actually pull the canopy line up by separating yellow and silver with blue, or, mate the yellow and silver fully.

Have fun with your Yak, but just don't tell us about it in this otherwise pure thread...

David

Dox- I did that, re-did the stripe, going to replace the pictures in above post. Thanks for suggestion, when this gets sanded out, and cleared, will change from what it is here, as you know. Yeah, I'll keep the gas stuff out of here

Crank

Oh yea, that definitely works Vince! Nice.

Other than graphics/decals that you might add, the one other trim detail you might consider is some 1/8" striping tape along the bottom yellow edge and then some separating the bottom red and white. Dunno, perhaps a little metallic touch of some sort?

It'll glisten soon... kinda makes me want to do some more painting.

Good news is the warm weather is almost here!

David

P.S. That is a nice looking Yak... Seems like them Pilot kits are pretty good!

Hey Vince,

Got the first three colors on the P-6; borrowed your colors but adding yellow and black checkerboard to the bottom of wing and stab. Still working through the canopybut will probably just outline in black with the front glare shield black also; just a thought.

Mike

Mike - That is great. Which retracts? I have this one set for Spring-Aire's, like Phoenix 6 #1. Your paint scheme will show nice in the air. I may just take this to finish before the Yak. What's up with the Passport?
Going to be looking at property up your way toward EOY or early next, within 25 mile radius of Tallahassee.

Vince

Vince,

Using Robart Spring-aire knockoffs but ordered up the Titanium legs from Central Hobbies and made my own nose-gear leg as the ones that came with the retracts are a bit on the heavy side. The Pass-port is sitting on the floor right behind me and it is going out tomorrow afternoon for a hop. Mostly using the Vanquish (e-power) for practice as the fuel plane requires so much clean up afterwards. Really like the way the Pass-port flies but trying to sell it if I can find an interested buyer. The fuel planes are sort of taking a back seat to the new crop of electric pattern planes but there is nothing like that YSfor powering through strong winds.

Mike

Doug - The yellow worked in good, Doxilla suggested a stripe at the red/white separation, bottom. Trying to get used to the all Navy Blue fin and rudder, it is usually red on other's. Need some kind of yellow piece there, maybe a decal of some kind. Dox, I am going to go with a yellow stripe at bottom, may get it to flow right into the LE of the stab. I will get the yellow on the wing LE, to show up when landing. I am also thinking of two lights at wing tips, front, experiment with velcro-ing them on, switch on before take off. Its the separation of the horizon, light to dark, with these old eyes.
Vince