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New Sebart Wind 50E

Old 06-21-2011, 07:26 AM
  #476  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

John,

I was thinking about getting the Wind 110 and swapping my gear from the WindS 50E, so I will be interested in how your Wind 110 performs.

Steve
Old 06-23-2011, 02:41 AM
  #477  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Steve

I ran the motor for the first time yesterday and was drawing 71 amps / 2000 watts / Apc 17x10e on a pack that was not fresh so the motorcalc figures look fairly accurate. Should be able to fly her next week and will report back. I am sure it will be fine as my 6S setup was only pulling around 1600 watts.

John
Old 07-17-2011, 10:59 AM
  #478  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

guys,

i just got the Oracover references code from Sebart for the Yellow/Black schem:

CADMIUM YELLOW #033
FERRARI RED #023
BLACK #071
SILVER #091

if someone has the Ultracote code, i will appreciate to get them.

thanks
Old 07-18-2011, 01:03 AM
  #479  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

Yellow-Red-Black Wind S 50E:

Oracover: CADMIUM YELLOW #033
Ultracote: Bright yellow HANU872

Oracover: FERRARI RED #023
Ultracote:True redHANU866

Oracover: BLACK #071
Ultracote: Black HANU874

Oracover: SILVER #091
Ultracote: Silver HANU881


White-Blue-Red Wind S 50E:

Oracover: FERRARI RED #023
Ultracote:True redHANU866

Oracover: Blue #050
Ultracote: Deep blue HANU873

Oracover: White #010
Ultracote: White HANU870

Oracover: SILVER #091
Ultracote: Silver HANU881


Alist of codes Ultracote - Oracover is here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8430476

regards,
Bo

Old 07-23-2011, 03:04 PM
  #480  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

I have just finished my Sebart Wind S 50E monoplane and the last thing before maiden was to mount the prop on the Hacker A50-16S V2 motor when the drive shaft snapped off when I was tightening the prop nut (image 1).
Did not apply much force on the wrench (image 2).
I would not have been surprised (knowing what I know now) if the shaft had snapped off in flight if I had managed to get airborne.
Damn, now I must order a new back mount prop adapter that includes a new shaft.

But I have noticed several thingsabout the APC (17x10) electric prop and Hacker back mount prop adapter propshaft that I do not like at all:

1. Propshaft was obviously not up to reasonable strength (at least the one I have)- one must be able to tighten the propnut reasonably hard.
Is the shaftsteel (image 3 and 4)? I doubt.
On the Hacker A50-16L V2 (and many other Hacker motors) it is two shafts to use depending on what end of the motor is used for mounting the motor itself. For the S 50E the Hacker motor is back mounted so the "A50 back mount prop adapter" is used to mount the prop on (image 4). If one inspect the ordinary prop adapter it is for sure a steel shaft (image 5).
Not much other then buy a new "A50 back mount prop adapter" and hope for the best (I will probably buy a few extra to have just in case).
I will have to ask Hacker about this.

2. I decided I would try APC 17x10E prop for the A50-16S V2 motor, Phoenix ICE 100 ESC with DesirePower V8 6S 35C 5200 mAh LiPo that I have. I have also APC 17x8E and 16x12E. All the APC props I have has in it's back plate a slight cavity (image 6) and that make it difficult for the back of the prop plate to get friction against the propadapter plate itself. When You tighten the propnut the back mount prop adapter slip easily and it is also very hard to get a spinner lined up properly (if you use a spinner with two screws that hold it to the spinner back plate). Also the A50 back mount prop adapter itself gives very little friction (image 6) when prop or spinner back plate is pressed against its surface. The ordinary prop adapter has much better grove (image 5).
Also APC 17x10E prop is much heavier (weight is 70 gram) then for example APC 16x12E (weight is 42 gram) and that hesitate me to use the 17x10 when I know the prop shaft is (probably) not steel on the A50 back mount prop adapter since the prop mass it self may contribute to break the shaft while flying I suspect.

Anyone has similar problem when You tighten the prop nut and not get enough friction against the prop adapter? Any easy fix for that?

Any comment on above problems?

I just wanted to write this so You watch up with this if you use a Hacker A50-16S V2 motor. I suppose many use this motor with A50 back mount prop adapter and APC electric props. But I had no luck so far and I do not think the APC electric prop with the A50 back mount prop adapter is a good combination for the reasons mentioned.

Hope to maiden in 3-4 days depending how fast I can get a new A50 back mount prop adapter delivered from Hacker in Germany (that is probably the fastest way to get one in my case).

PS. I had also one of the servo doa (dead on arrival), it was a Futaba BLS153 that was "dead", that I had mounted in one of the the stabhalves. I had one spare BLS153 so that was solved quickly.

Happy flying,

/Bo

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Old 07-23-2011, 11:13 PM
  #481  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

hi bem

i was really surprised taht such a broken shaft happened to a Hacker motor, because i got the same issue with my Turnigy... any way, i just learn in the hard way that there is really no need to tighten the prop nut so hard, its NOT like in fuel engine that you should start them counter-clockwise, in electric motor, the motor itself will tigthen the nut !
thats why now, im just gentley screwing the nut and thats it, and belive me i have more than 15 flights already with my Wind with no issue at all.

fly and enjoy
Old 07-24-2011, 01:57 AM
  #482  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

Perhaps that is the case most of the times but I also have a Sebart Angel S 30E and on that motor, a Hacker A30-14L V2, the prop came loose at full throttle and departed like a missile to the side when I was running it on the ground once. Lucky I was standing behind the plane when that hapened. And I had tightened the prop nut rather hard. That time my investigation found the cause was the original spinner that come in the box for Angel S 30E. It is same as a Hyperion 52 (51) millimeter plastic spinner - this one http://www.hyperion-eu.com/products/...HP-SPSTAN-52-Wand it is same but 57 millimeter for the S 50E. With these spinners theprop adapter willeasyrotate when You have the spinner backplatebehind the prop (APC).The spinner hasnot enough friction areason back and front (image 1 and 2). For the Angel S 30E I solved the problemby changing to aeronaut plastic spinner that has a metal back plate - these spinners http://www.aero-naut.de/en/products/...ing-props.htmland see also image 3 and 4 for detals how they have better friction areas on back and front. I use also aeronaut 57 mm spinner for the A50-16SV2 and it'sBackmount-Prop-Adapter but this does not really prevent the the prop adapter to rotate when trying to tighten the prop nut and the reason as I see it is the A50 Backmount-Prop-Adapter that has not enough friction on the grooves.

So I'm very careful about tighten the prop nut and have a good friction on the spinner/prop mounting areas.

Anyone know some suitable high friction thin material that can be used between the prop adapter and spinner backplate and also between prop and spinner backplate to solve these problems once and for all?

/Bo
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Old 07-25-2011, 07:46 AM
  #483  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

I made a friction ring from two sides of 150 grit sandpaper glued together with 3M77.

Joe
Old 07-25-2011, 09:43 AM
  #484  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi Joe,

Yes that is a good idea, I have heard wet sandpaper should work, I will try that.

/Bo
Old 07-25-2011, 11:44 AM
  #485  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

I had problems tightening the shaft on with Scorpion 4020 and Sebart Wind S 50. It is a different kind of shaft mounted on the motor shaft instead on the bell, like this:



I was unable to tighten the spinner and prop enough so that they don't move when I try to rotate them them one against eachother by hand. It's a Turingy light wood electric prop and it's surface is lacquered and very smooth. I tried sanding the center, putting sand paper bits in different ways, but it didn't help. It would always slip eiher between prop and the spinner or spinner and shaft back-plate.

After lots of trying I managed to strip of the threads from the shaft and the nut would slip when trying to tighten it.

I took the shaft and the nut to a guy with a lathe who managed to re-work the threads on the shaft and make a new, brass nut to fit to the new threads, and voila I was able to tighten it sufficiently using a fraction of the force which I was using before.

He said (and I'm no mechanical engineer so can't confirm that) that the problem was that the nut was made so that it was holding on just 3 threads on the shaft and further more, it seems that the threads on the shaft were not made per nut specs (or vice versa).
Basically, it seems that no matter how much force I used, I could never tighten it properly.

Another solution I found was to get Hyperion shafts (like the one in the pic) of the same design, which seem to tighten without a problem. They've got them in two shaft lengths which might be helpful.

Hope this helps...
Bane


Old 07-27-2011, 12:48 PM
  #486  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

I took some pictures of my just finished Sebart Wind S 50E today (and some I had taken during the assembly). I'm waiting for a new Hacker A50 back mount prop adapter that broke when I was tighten the prop nut. Anyway I just thought I could share some pictures and some conmments about my plane.

Assembly time for me was about a week.
Equipment I use:
- Hacker A50-16S V2 motor
- Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 100 (with BEC), firmware 3.27
- DesirePower V8 6S 35C 5200 mAh, weight including cables and EC5 connector 760-770 gram.
- Futaba BLS153 on elevators and ailerons, Futaba S9551 on rudder
- Futaba R6008HS receiver (14MZ transmitter)
- Prop is APC 17x10E and will hopfully work but I have also 17x18E and 16x12E to try
- 60 millimeter main wheels instead of original 55 mm since I fly from (rough) grass

I have set the control throws with triple rates and exponential etc to about what is recommended in the Sebart Wind S 50E manual, I will start from there and see how it works out. I also added flaperons (ailerons as flaps mixed with needed elevator).

I have set my Castle Creations Phoenix ICE 100 to these settings (set with Castle Link via USB), all other settings are left at default values:

- Throttle: Fixed endpoints (it is described in the Casle Link Software help how to set the endpoints correctly in transmitter).
- Cutoffs: Soft Cutoff
- Other: BEC Voltage 6.0 Volt (since all my servos and receiver can handle 6 volt), the servo strength is increased rather much at 6 volt compared to5 (4.8) volt.

Pictures, part 1 - 4, below.

/Bo

Pictures part 1.

Picture 1-4:
Hacker motor and Castle Creations ESC. Note since the Hacker A50-16S V2 is shorter then V1 You must use the thick spacers that come with the A50 motor. I mounted the ESC with 4 screws in the plastic ears on the ESC.

Picture 5:
I added 2 mm plywoodwhere the cowl screws go into the fuselage so the screws will have little better travel into the wood.

Picture 6:
I used all the linkages that was in the kit (altough I hesitated some) - I used a small file to make a small dent in all the pushrods in the end where the adjustable link is used to be sure the screw will "bite" and the rod not be able to move. Thread lock on all screws also.

Picture 7-12:
Futaba BLS153 mounted in the stab halves (that almost fit but I had to take about 2 mm away in length of the servo mounting plate in the stab halves). All servo connectors secured with tape.

/Bo
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:52 PM
  #487  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Pictures part 2.

Picture 1-2:
Rudder servo mounted, Futaba S9551 (Digital with Metal Gear but not brushless). Tailwheel mounted (I hope it will have enough strength, if not I have a better Sullivan tail wheel gear to use).

Picture 3-6:
I selected to modify the canopy fasten screws some. I first glued a small 4 mm inside diameter boat hood round metal plate in the fuselage and then used 20 mm long M3 screws toghether with Secraft Canopy lock V1 small black round "nut" that can be tightened with fingers.

/Bo
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Old 07-27-2011, 12:54 PM
  #488  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Pictures part 3.

Picture 1-11:
External images taken today in the garden.

/Bo
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Old 07-27-2011, 01:01 PM
  #489  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Pictures part 4 (of 4).

Picture 1 and 2:
I used some velcro to fasten the servo cablesin the fuselage.

Picture 3-5:
Receiver, ESC, battery etc inside fuselage.

I'm ready for maiden now as soon as I get the Hacker A50 back mount prop adapter (I ordered a new on Monday so maybe it will come tomorrow Thursday).

/Bo


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Old 07-29-2011, 02:15 PM
  #490  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

I got the Hacker A50 back mount prop adapter today (3 packages so I have 2 spare). I had to use wet sandpaper (two pieces glued together for one friction plate). I use one such friction plate between prop adapter and spinner backplate and one between spinner backplate front and prop. I could not tighten the prop nut until both wet sandpaper plates was there.
Some picture of the wet sandpaper "trick" below.

So I was also able to maiden my S 50E today - 10 flights. It was little windy today but later in the afternoon the wind calmed down a little and I decided it was time to try this bird in the sky. I trimmed some up elevator before take off to be little on the safe side but I had to trim it back as expected once in the air. It flies fine but I have to adjust the throws some before I have everything to my taste. Easy to land. Take off and airborne after maybe 10 meter. I used the APC 17x10E prop and I think it worked fine. After first flight I downloaded the logged data in Castle link software and displayed it in Castle Data Log andno alarming values. At home after the 10 flights I examined the Logs more, at 100% output/full throttle in the air I got these max values with DesirePower V8 6S 35C LiPo with the Hacker A50-16S V2 motor and Phoenix ICE 100 ESC:

max voltage was 25.3
max current was 70 amp
max ripple 0.60
max mAh was 1898
max RPM (prop shaft) was 7778 (shown when set pole to 14 and Kv to 378 as this Hacker motor has, and direct drive, in Castle Data Log)
max watt was 1669
max temp (for the ICE 100 ESC) was 49 deg Celsius (121 Fahrenheit), it was rather hot day today 26-27 deg Celsius (79-81 F)

The vertical climb was unlimited and I did not need to have full throttle for that.
It felt the plane flew good with enough powerat about 3/4 throttle.

Some pictures below at the field, it was rather high grass but take off was no problem despite this, the landing was OK in the high grass but it was on the edge to high.
I just managed to get one picture of the plane in the air since I was alone at the field today so I had to take the photo myself while flying and it was not that great shoot.
Anyway, it was a great afternoon and all was well. I will probably fly more this weekend.

/Bo
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:19 AM
  #491  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

Tried to fly my Wind S 50E today but the Futaba BLS153 servos failed on one aileron and one elevator. Both servos failed the same way - the shaft has broken. See pictures below.
Picture 1-5 aileron servo, picture 6 elevator servo.
So watch out to use these servos, they seems to be no good. I have 5 of these servos and two has broken the same way as You can see, so I think I must change to other type (and perhaps brand) servos now since this is dangerous to use. The servos are brand new and only 10 flights on them (yesterday).

/Bo
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:48 AM
  #492  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

I have now changed to Futaba S9551 digital servos with metal gearin the wings of my Wind S 50E. I also ordered new elevator servos this morning, JR DS3717HV (specification below). For theold Futaba BLS153 (I have 5) I haveordered new gear set and after I have changed the shaft gear that seems to be the weak link in the gear I will use these servos only for very light usage like sailplane and similar.

JR DS3717HV specifications:
Digital, metal gear, high voltage capable (up to 7,4 volt)
torque 56 oz-in (4 kg-cm)
speed 0.08 sec/60 deg
LxWxH 1.30x0.58x1.05 in (33x14.7x26.7 mm)
weight 1.0 oz (28 gram)

/Bo
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:49 AM
  #493  
 
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

ORIGINAL: bem
I have ordered new gear set and after I have changed the shaft gear that seems to be the weak link in the gear ...
Hi Bem, please let me/us know if the new shaft gear is of tougher material.
I did have the feeling the 153 is soft (you kan move the servo-arm) as if it is lacking holding power but perhaps it is just the gear that is flexing.
Old 08-01-2011, 08:12 AM
  #494  
 
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi, Bem,

Maybe is problem with fastening screw overlenght?

Marko
Old 08-01-2011, 09:23 AM
  #495  
bem
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hans Meij,
Yes I will report back when I have changed the gear in my BLS153 servos.

Marko,
I'm using the screw that come with the servo, I do not know if it is overlenght but I have measured some, see pictures below, and the screw length seems not to be to long.

/Bo

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Old 08-01-2011, 10:47 AM
  #496  
 
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

I have been using Futaba BLS153 servos on aileron in my Wind S Pro the entire season with no problems. I fly F3A P-11 and F-11 schedules. The F-11 contain 9 snaprolls. My flying style is a little bit far out and fast so I don`t go easy on the servos.
In what situation did the shafts break?

Regards Anders Johansson
Old 08-01-2011, 11:38 AM
  #497  
bem
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi Anders,

I discovered it when I was doing the range check before first flight for theday. I walked away and moved aileron and elevator but on aileron I saw no movement so I thought maybe I start to see bad... well the rudder moved so I did not think so much about it until I came back to the model and one aileron did not move and not one elevator half either. I heard the servos moving but nothing happened and when I checked the servos the haft was broken. I bought the servos new last year but had not used them until now. 10 flights on them as I wrote. Maybe I got some bad"lemons" who knows. I will change the gear in all the servos but now I just do not dare to use them in a model like this. Hope Your servos will be OK. I whished they had metal gear in the BLS153, that would really be a good option.

/Bo
Old 08-02-2011, 05:51 AM
  #498  
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Futaba 9650s are popular elevator servos. I have them on my 2m plane. No problem.
Old 08-05-2011, 03:47 PM
  #499  
bem
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

I have now changed all gear shaft in my five Futaba BLS153 servos. Rather easy to do altough the ball bearing was little hard to get off the old shafts.
Two new JR DS3717HV servos arrived also today and I have installed them in the stab halves now as replacement for the BLS153. Since these JR servoshave metal gear they have just a slight play in the gear (the BLS153 had no play at all since it is nylon gear in them) but that is probably nothing I will notice with this Sebart Wind S 50E. So now I have metal gear servos on all control surfaces.
I also today glued (with slow epoxy) the stab carbon rod in the fuslage since it was not firm where it enter the fuselage and caused the stab halves to move slightly back and forth horisontally. Now it is firm but I can still take off the stab halves.
If weather is good tomorrow I will fly my S 50E again.

/Bo

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Old 08-06-2011, 02:38 PM
  #500  
bem
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Default RE: New Sebart Wind 50E

Hi,

I have been flying my Wind S 50E again today, whole day. The new servos works fine. I lost track how many flights I made but I drained two 80 Ah batteries I use for charging my LiPo's and two TX 14MZ battery packs was consumed. Some pictures below from today and also some info of the airfield I fly from.

/Bo

Picture 1:
It was rather windy today as seen on the wind sack.

Picture 2:
Ready for a take off (in the tall grass).

Picture 3:
In flight picture that I shoot while flying.

Picture 4:
After some hours flying I was hungry.

Picture 5:
At about 20.00 in the evening it was still little windy as you can see on the wind sack.

Picture 6:
At 21.00 it was time to stop flying, the moon had risen on the sky (just to the left of the larger cloud).


The airfield I fly from is a former Swedish air force war field, a grass field. This field is unique since it is the last world war 2field left here and it is now a culture reserve. It is a beautiful field with rare flowers, birds and insects all over the field.

Picture 7:
One of the many restored guard posts around the field.

Picture 8:
An old anti aircraft gun. Notice all the red <span class="emphesize readable">lingonberry in the foreground.</span>

Picture 9:
A shelter with a base for an anti aircraft gun.

Picture 10:
One of the many bunkers around the field that contained machine gun for defence of the field.

Picture 11:
Maintenance hangar where they serviced the aircrafts.

Picture 12:
Barrack for flying personel brefing before mission flights and debriefeing.

(continue in next post)

/Bo
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