Go Back  RCU Forums > Glow Engines, Gas Engines, Fuel & Mfg Support Forums > Engine Conversions
Reload this Page >

Electronic solutions to modifying glow engines of all sizes to gasoline

Notices
Engine Conversions Discuss all aspects of engine conversions in this forum

Electronic solutions to modifying glow engines of all sizes to gasoline

Old 09-20-2023, 06:19 AM
  #1926  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

i spent some time cleaning up the new s.bus controller code and making sure it reads channel pulses accurately. it does and can be used at this point. the benefit of switching to s.bus is that reading channels no longer requires an interrupt routine. i can now use the interrupt routine to read the RPM pulses without concern of an interrupt happening while insude another interrupt routine (which would prevent the interrupt from being recognized and the rpm pulse would be lost).

the s.bus signal needs to be inverted before going to pin 7 of the seeeduino xiao and that can be easily accomplished using a transistor and 2 resistors or, even better, one channel of a uln2003a and a single resistor. i'm leaning towards the uln2003a solution because it can also be used to buffer the solenoid signal without any added parts which reduces the total part count bcause it eliminates the mosfet and resistor we currently use. it also reduces cost as the uln2003 is about a quarter the price of the mosfet we've been using.

i'll be adding RPM sensing to the controller and using another channel of the uln3002a plus a resistor for that. i also plan to add the air pump control (using yet another channel of the uln2003).

'll use 2 channels of the uln2003a to control a high current power supply (such as to power the ignition which would eliminate the cost of the opti-kill switch and it's required channel input). i plan to thoroughally test this to make sure there's no interference from the ignition but we already connect the RPM signal to our telemetry devices/radio without any isolation when we use openxsensor devices without issue.

there's one more channel on the uln2003a available for future use and i'll not connect it at this point.
Old 09-20-2023, 01:34 PM
  #1927  
Rcplanedan
Senior Member
 
Rcplanedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Australia
Posts: 139
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by 1967brutus
Still the same question: What plane?
I can for example imagine two engines, one after another, with a common shaft running above both engines, each engne delivering power via belt or such to that common shaft, but that is a lengthy and heavy construction, I mean at best you've got 5 HP from a 3+ kilo set-up measuring 10+ inmches in length, and that's excluding the prop drive hub...
I would choose a decathlon, to do such a conversion would involve shortening the crank shaft of the rear engine to reduce total length..and yes the over slung prop shaft would add a little extra length over a pegusus..i know maybe i shouldn't take on such a modification, but cant help but wonder
Old 09-20-2023, 04:47 PM
  #1928  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

The code is updated and can now read multiple channels over s.bus and control multiple outputs. There's the solenoid pulse plus 3 more digital/pwm pins (currently 8, 9, and 10). I've breadboarded and tested the circuit...

and now it's time to build a more permanent version. I think this one goes together easier than the prior version but I need to build a few first. The code has spaces for defining how to control those 3 new pins plus rpm measurement coming soon.

Last edited by Raleighcopter; 09-20-2023 at 04:49 PM.
Old 09-20-2023, 05:50 PM
  #1929  
Rcplanedan
Senior Member
 
Rcplanedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Australia
Posts: 139
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

My crankcase vent is rerouted via a T-connector to both rocker covers. No more valve lash adjustments
Where does the engine now breathe to?


Old 09-20-2023, 10:50 PM
  #1930  
1967brutus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,188
Received 72 Likes on 68 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Rcplanedan
My crankcase vent is rerouted via a T-connector to both rocker covers. No more valve lash adjustments
Where does the engine now breathe to?
You need drains on the rocker covers... The oil has to go somewhere...
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20171221_224722.jpg
Views:	139
Size:	97.7 KB
ID:	2273377
The pic is a bit fuzzy but the drains can be clearly seen. It makes no noticable difference whether you have the oil supply aimed at the exhaust valve (forward connection) or intake valve (rear connection),, just do wat makes for the visually neatest solution.

You can leave the drains open and a little bit of oil will soil the sides of your plane, but there is absolutely no issue with rerouting those drains back to the middle exitting at the centre of the firewall, or from each cylinder to a main gear leg if you want to keep the plane oil free.
The only criteria is to use equal; lenghts of tubing so the flow will be as equal as possible. The backpressure does not create any problems.

It is advisable to cut cardboard gaskets for the rockercovers and wrap a bit of teflon tape around the heads of the rocker cover bolts to keep the cylinder heads clean. No biggie, that's a one time affair.
Allow for an approximate 10~20 hours to let the valve lash stabilize, depending on state of break-in.
Mine from new required a 5 hourly check/adjustment up till about 20 hours, then valve lash simply stopped changing, and I basically kept checking every 5 hours until 40, then I decided enough is enough. I check when I change the plugs, which is about every 35~50 hours.
Can't judge your flying intensity, but for me, 25 hours is about a year of use (I have progged a runhour counter that ONLY counts ACTUAL running time based on "ignition ON+RPM<500". So prep-time with RX on, or even ignition on, or anything where the engine is NOT actually running, is not counted)
Old 09-20-2023, 11:07 PM
  #1931  
Rcplanedan
Senior Member
 
Rcplanedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Australia
Posts: 139
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by 1967brutus
You need drains on the rocker covers... The oil has to go somewhere...
Attachment 2273377
The pic is a bit fuzzy but the drains can be clearly seen. It makes no noticable difference whether you have the oil supply aimed at the exhaust valve (forward connection) or intake valve (rear connection),, just do wat makes for the visually neatest solution.

You can leave the drains open and a little bit of oil will soil the sides of your plane, but there is absolutely no issue with rerouting those drains back to the middle exitting at the centre of the firewall, or from each cylinder to a main gear leg if you want to keep the plane oil free.
The only criteria is to use equal; lenghts of tubing so the flow will be as equal as possible. The backpressure does not create any problems.

It is advisable to cut cardboard gaskets for the rockercovers and wrap a bit of teflon tape around the heads of the rocker cover bolts to keep the cylinder heads clean. No biggie, that's a one time affair.
Allow for an approximate 10~20 hours to let the valve lash stabilize, depending on state of break-in.
Mine from new required a 5 hourly check/adjustment up till about 20 hours, then valve lash simply stopped changing, and I basically kept checking every 5 hours until 40, then I decided enough is enough. I check when I change the plugs, which is about every 35~50 hours.
Can't judge your flying intensity, but for me, 25 hours is about a year of use (I have progged a runhour counter that ONLY counts ACTUAL running time based on "ignition ON+RPM<500". So prep-time with RX on, or even ignition on, or anything where the engine is NOT actually running, is not counted)
Thanks..well i figured thats what you have done, , great idea to utilise the waste from the crankcase, well i have put a good 4hrs on this plane and only one exhaust valve needed rocker clearance set, and done another 30mins this morning, keeps running without fault basically..except the single exhaust pressure nipple i found blocked up at 3.5hrs. But this time i have pressure off both pipes..i found this problem when refuelling, resistance when filling, rerouted the tank lines as per your instructions, im happy with all that now..instead of making rocker gaskets i used automotive silicone and let it set on the rocker covers..that works fine..
Old 09-20-2023, 11:15 PM
  #1932  
1967brutus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,188
Received 72 Likes on 68 Posts
Default

Yup, the silicone also works fine.
I am a bit oldfashioned in that respect, I decided for gaskets

I have done this rocker lube mod on ALL my fourstrokes except for the radial (due to "logistical reasons", the tubing and the baffling result in a nightmare) and I am extremely happy with the results: soaking wet and brand sparkling clean rocker box and once the running surface of the cams has settled (that is where the initial change in valve lash comes from) no valve adjustments anymore.
Old 09-20-2023, 11:20 PM
  #1933  
Rcplanedan
Senior Member
 
Rcplanedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Australia
Posts: 139
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by 1967brutus
Yup, the silicone also works fine.
I am a bit oldfashioned in that respect, I decided for gaskets

I have done this rocker lube mod on ALL my fourstrokes except for the radial (due to "logistical reasons", the tubing and the baffling result in a nightmare) and I am extremely happy with the results: soaking wet and brand sparkling clean rocker box and once the running surface of the cams has settled (that is where the initial change in valve lash comes from) no valve adjustments anymore.
absolutely a brilliant idea. And will be followed on with the top cylinders on my 3 cylinder radials, .
i could surely imagine the mess of pipe work on the asp 5 cylinder..damn catastrophe
Old 09-21-2023, 01:12 AM
  #1934  
1967brutus
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 1,188
Received 72 Likes on 68 Posts
Default

One of the reasons I did not incorporate it on the radial, was that the radials have a (near) constant crankcase volume. Singles and boxers have a strong pulsating crankvent, meaning that the oil gets "atomized" in the rockerbox(es).
The radial has a steady flow, so I expect issues with too much standing liquid level in the rockerboxes. It is no biggie, the radial makes very few running hours, so....
Old 09-21-2023, 12:03 PM
  #1935  
John_M_
 
John_M_'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,485
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 8 Posts
Default

Well redirecting the oil vapor from the crankcase through the rocker boxes is a damned sight better way than oil migration through the valve guides, and what gets past the cam followers and up the push rod tubes, it works to some extent... rather that, than the os pcv system, or the Moki radial's with their greased cam followers, which is an asinine way to lubricate a valve train.
Old 09-21-2023, 12:12 PM
  #1936  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

How's this sound? Read rpm, 2 engine temp, controls the solenoid and an air pump (for whatever reason you want) s.port telemetry for everything and we'll figure out an air pump algorithm at some point or repurpose the control point for a future use. I could also make it take 5 engine temperature measurements if I try.

This makes it a single device for controlling our engines and keeping track of how they are running through telemetry and it's own integral display. Depending on final dimensions I may use a 64 row display but only if it doesn't make the package bigger.
Old 09-21-2023, 12:47 PM
  #1937  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,490
Received 61 Likes on 61 Posts
Default

Sounds great to me, Dave.
Old 09-23-2023, 07:46 AM
  #1938  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

I still need to attach the wires for the sensor and display and then finish programming it. It's almost built but not as easy to build as I had hoped. I'm not sure it's worth building unless we have circuit boards made.

Old 09-23-2023, 08:23 AM
  #1939  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

...but what I am sure of is that an s.bus capable solenoid controller is worth it. Switching to s.bus requires an inverter in order to use the serial port on pin 7. There's a software serial library that may let me receive inverted serial on pin 2 which is the same pin we currently use to read the rc channel. If it works we could flash new software to our Xiao controllers and make them work with s.bus. also, I've figured out how to calculate the required additional fuel for acceleration from one speed to another so a new firmware with acceleration and deceleration pumps is hopefully on the way.
Old 09-23-2023, 12:31 PM
  #1940  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default


Needs a case and some software. I'll need to work harder to get softserial to work on the original controller because it doesn't play nice with the sbus library I'm using.
Old 09-24-2023, 02:08 AM
  #1941  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,490
Received 61 Likes on 61 Posts
Default

Looking good, Dave. A lot of power in a small package. I wouldn't mind investing in a PCB if it helps clean things up and simplifies assembly.
Old 09-24-2023, 04:40 AM
  #1942  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

I might do that, order some circuit boards.

The controller has minimal parts: 4 resistors, 2 diodes, 1 uln2003a and a metric crapload of wires.

I worked on software some last night. None of the thermistor libraries I found work with 2 thermistors which means I'll probably need to write my own code. Rpm should be pretty easy, count 4 or 5 revolutions and convert the elapsed time to RPM.

Controlling the air pump will definitely be pretty easy and I already can turn it on and off from my transmitter.

Adding an acceleration pump is a bit more complicated. Since we tune our mixture curve at static rpm, the extra fuel needed to accelerate the propeller to a new rpm is the increase in rotational energy: I x omega squared. Omega is the angular velocity and I is the moment of inertia. If we know the specific rpm vs throttle value we can create a rpm/throttle position table and use that to calculate the rotational energy going from one throttle position to another throttle position. Since we know the throttle position (since it comes on the sbus data stream, we know how much extra fuel to include. The only unknown here is the moment of inertia but we can just use a channel to provide that constant and tune it for the snappiest acceleration.

Old 09-24-2023, 04:59 AM
  #1943  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Pcb way says I can get 100 1"x2" boards made for $50. I guess this is happening. Let me get the prototype working completely before I design and order boards.
Old 09-24-2023, 05:09 AM
  #1944  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,490
Received 61 Likes on 61 Posts
Default

Are you planning to standardize on JR/Futaba connectors for I/O?
Old 09-24-2023, 05:14 AM
  #1945  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

I would use pin headers for all the wire connections to the controller. I might make the bmp280 integral and mount the controller on the firewall with an optional remote display. This would require 4 conductors back to the receiver and a plug for 4 conductors to the optional display. It would be a 2x8 or 3x6 pin header, probably.
Old 09-24-2023, 05:30 AM
  #1946  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,490
Received 61 Likes on 61 Posts
Default

3x6 90 degree pin header sounds perfect. Most everyone has, or can borrow, a crimp tool for rc connectors.

I won't use the display if telemetry is available. If I did use one it would be a temporary thing so yes, remote connection is my preference. Components on the PCB would simplify wiring in a big way.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 09-24-2023 at 05:33 AM.
Old 09-24-2023, 08:17 AM
  #1947  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

So if we move the controller to the firewall, a remote display makes sense. just 4 wires go back to the receiver, everything else is under the cowl except possibly a display mounted in the airplane's dash board. I may want to move the air pump to pin 2 as i can do some more timer stuff and future proof a custom board. The rpm input would likely move to pin 1. If we use a remote display the controller winds up about 1"x1.5"x1/2" overall size.

If anyone has any other ideas they think we should implement, now it the time to bring it up.
Old 09-24-2023, 08:25 AM
  #1948  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,490
Received 61 Likes on 61 Posts
Default

Does the new design include the voltage dropping diode for use with Life batts? Was thinking 2 batt inputs would be nice, one for 4.8v-6.0v and one for 6.6v-?v.
Old 09-24-2023, 08:43 AM
  #1949  
Raleighcopter
Senior Member
 
Raleighcopter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Posts: 271
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

If I build a board, it probably includes a voltage regulator
Old 09-24-2023, 09:07 AM
  #1950  
Glowgeek
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 3,490
Received 61 Likes on 61 Posts
Default

Even better. A regulator would allow for 4.8v-8.2v?

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.