Saito FG-60R3
06-22-2015, 07:19 AM
#152
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK, Surrey
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is anyone using the FG60R3 on a 50cc class aerobatic plane? i.e. Sukhoi Yak, etc.
I'm not into 3D. I also hate the chainsaw sound of 2-stroke gassers. I wonder if a Pilot Rc Yak55 w/ FG60R3 could be mild IMAC capable with reasonable wing loading. As a reference I'm having a 40cc Great Planes YAk 54 with a LAser 300v on it. It's a nice combo although the wing loading is a bit high due to a bit small wing of the GP Yak. However, it flyes traditional aerobatics (cuban eights, stall turns, etc.) very well.
Another reference: a friend of mine is having a Pilot Rc Yak 55 50cc with a Saito FA-450 on it. He says he does not want any less power. I'm just thinking the FA-450 isn't the most powerfull engine for its size and weights about 2 lbs more than the FG60R3.
Any thoughts?
I'm not into 3D. I also hate the chainsaw sound of 2-stroke gassers. I wonder if a Pilot Rc Yak55 w/ FG60R3 could be mild IMAC capable with reasonable wing loading. As a reference I'm having a 40cc Great Planes YAk 54 with a LAser 300v on it. It's a nice combo although the wing loading is a bit high due to a bit small wing of the GP Yak. However, it flyes traditional aerobatics (cuban eights, stall turns, etc.) very well.
Another reference: a friend of mine is having a Pilot Rc Yak 55 50cc with a Saito FA-450 on it. He says he does not want any less power. I'm just thinking the FA-450 isn't the most powerfull engine for its size and weights about 2 lbs more than the FG60R3.
Any thoughts?
with the FG60R3 now in the air frame I can report that it performs with the same power and performance as the 55DLE and it sounds so much better.
06-22-2015, 08:23 AM
#154
[QUOTE=johnhi;12059291]Hi AeroFinn, I have my FG60R3 in a Hanger 9 Carden Yak 54, I did have a DLE 55 in it before I changed to the SAITO for the same reasons you are wanting to go down this route i.e I hated the sound and vibation the 2stroke produced.
with the FG60R3 now in the air frame I can report that it performs with the same power and performance as the 55DLE and it sounds so much better.
Thanks Johnhi,
This is very encouraging!
I also wanted to pay attention to proper cooling
In my case I dremelled the louvres open on the cowling and added a louvre on the bottom of the cowling. I made the baffling arrangement from an constraction insulation foam which is maybe 15mm to 20mm thick
I hope i'm not violating this thread but I attach a couple of pictures just in case someone is thinking of doing something similar with a round cowling & FG60R3
-Artto
with the FG60R3 now in the air frame I can report that it performs with the same power and performance as the 55DLE and it sounds so much better.
Thanks Johnhi,
This is very encouraging!
I also wanted to pay attention to proper cooling
In my case I dremelled the louvres open on the cowling and added a louvre on the bottom of the cowling. I made the baffling arrangement from an constraction insulation foam which is maybe 15mm to 20mm thick
I hope i'm not violating this thread but I attach a couple of pictures just in case someone is thinking of doing something similar with a round cowling & FG60R3
-Artto
Last edited by AeroFinn; 06-22-2015 at 09:37 AM.
06-22-2015, 09:44 AM
#155
John,
How about the tank location? I think I read in the Saito Fg60R3 manual the pump is not very effective so one should mount the tank as closed to the engine as possible like with typical glow engine. If I understood correctly this is because the pump (maybe) can't feed the carb adequately in long verticals so the engine leans out?
Or did you mount the tank on the CG and run the engine without issues?
-Artto
06-28-2015, 01:17 AM
#157
When I ran in my engine, we ran it "blubbering" rich on 15:1, meaning so rich it barely ran. This is what is referred to as "open main needle until speed drops just before engine stops". The Saito instructions aren't the clearest, but I think it suggest that the first 1/2 gallon or so needs an abundance of high quality lubrication or the risk of conrod, piston, and/or cylinder failure is high.
This happened all too frequently on the 33R3 and 84R3, but I was hopeful the introduction of the bushing and improved fuel/lubrication distribution found on the 60R3 remedied this - guess not.
This happened all too frequently on the 33R3 and 84R3, but I was hopeful the introduction of the bushing and improved fuel/lubrication distribution found on the 60R3 remedied this - guess not.
Remember, these engines are completely dry in there when you get them.
Can you imagine the first seconds after startup......
I have two FG-57's. One of them was quite dry up in the valve area at first start. The other one was very wet.
I think there is some differencies from engine to engine based on this experience. Better lubricate properly before start.
After all, on a fourstroke like this, the crank case can only get oil from the petrol. And that can only happen through oil leaking via the piston-rings.
That takes time, pluss there will be some variation from engine to engine, espesially in the beginning.
There is no oil-sump here, and no oil pump. So, helping the crank-case a bit before startup cannot hurt.
Last edited by kwik; 06-28-2015 at 01:32 AM.
07-08-2015, 09:55 AM
#163
You absolutely can, and most do. This previous post suggest running the Saito SP-2 on cylinder #1, with RCEXL on the bottom cylinders to more effectively balance temps. See below -
Of course, it's hard to test given the Saito SP-2 is unobtainable in the U.S.
OK, I have had a similar experience. I repeat the post from another thread here:
Set-up:
1. SP-2 plug on top cylinder (smaller gap) and Rcexl plugs on the bottom cylinders (larger gaps to avoid fouling). Made sure plug caps were 100% securely seated on all plugs to rule-out misfiring from that source.
2. Changed Klotz Techniplate to Castrol Power 1 oil to avoid carbon build-up in No.1 and the huge oily mess from the exhaust evident in previous runs.
3. Changed oil ratio from 15:1 to 20:1 to improve combustion and avoid plug fouling.
4. High needles started @ 4 turns out and low needle @ 8 turns out (previous set-up from rich WOT running)
5.Prop is still an APC 22x10.
Set-up:
1. SP-2 plug on top cylinder (smaller gap) and Rcexl plugs on the bottom cylinders (larger gaps to avoid fouling). Made sure plug caps were 100% securely seated on all plugs to rule-out misfiring from that source.
2. Changed Klotz Techniplate to Castrol Power 1 oil to avoid carbon build-up in No.1 and the huge oily mess from the exhaust evident in previous runs.
3. Changed oil ratio from 15:1 to 20:1 to improve combustion and avoid plug fouling.
4. High needles started @ 4 turns out and low needle @ 8 turns out (previous set-up from rich WOT running)
5.Prop is still an APC 22x10.
07-08-2015, 10:17 AM
#164
Ah, thanks marksp. I didn't notice the previous discussion in its actual context.
The SP-2 plug seems a lot like the standard RCEXL plugs from what I can see. It has a welded plug tip, and the head of the plug is the exact same as the RCEXL. The RimFire plugs however are one piece machined plugs, and are very good quality. Recently bought $300-$400 worth of them for my 7 cylinder radial - damn expensive, but very smooth running compared to Saito and RCEXL plugs in my limited experience running them.
The SP-2 plug seems a lot like the standard RCEXL plugs from what I can see. It has a welded plug tip, and the head of the plug is the exact same as the RCEXL. The RimFire plugs however are one piece machined plugs, and are very good quality. Recently bought $300-$400 worth of them for my 7 cylinder radial - damn expensive, but very smooth running compared to Saito and RCEXL plugs in my limited experience running them.
07-09-2015, 09:49 AM
#167
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Victoria,
MN
Posts: 3,934
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't get so hung up on this plug idea. Make sure you have everything tight and good cooling and right amount of oil and let it rip. the design of the intake will take care of the rest. Personally I have put 450 down unil I get the plane built and I am running the saito 325. 5 cyl radial .
It already has a crank bearing (as Ray E. calls the brass insert) stock and has a wonderful fuel atomization fan that is as good as it gets. The only down fall is that the fan gets spun by the crank and takes some power away, but good fuel distribution/atomization makes up for it with added power. I wonder why the 325 wasn't the first radial to be converted to gas. Only reason I can think of is the 5 plug ignition system took tint to make?. It is the best of the bunch IMHO. But doesn't have the deeper tone that the others have. But then again, nor did the real 1st radials on the biplanes either.
It already has a crank bearing (as Ray E. calls the brass insert) stock and has a wonderful fuel atomization fan that is as good as it gets. The only down fall is that the fan gets spun by the crank and takes some power away, but good fuel distribution/atomization makes up for it with added power. I wonder why the 325 wasn't the first radial to be converted to gas. Only reason I can think of is the 5 plug ignition system took tint to make?. It is the best of the bunch IMHO. But doesn't have the deeper tone that the others have. But then again, nor did the real 1st radials on the biplanes either.
07-09-2015, 01:27 PM
#169
07-12-2015, 05:31 AM
#171
Member
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: UK, Surrey
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well look what happend to my engine on Friday. I had two good flights, and then started the engine for the 3rd flight and within 20 seconds of runng it suddenly started to make a knocking sound. I shut down immediately and noticed that number 2 cylinder had cracked at the base. As you know from my run in period earlier in this forum blog the engine whas VERY cearfully run-in and I have subsequently had about 25 flights with no issues. Hopfully it will just need a replacement cylider and piston ring.
07-12-2015, 11:30 AM
#173
Well look what happend to my engine on Friday.
I had two good flights, and then started the engine for the 3rd flight and within 20 seconds of runng it suddenly started to make a knocking sound.
I shut down immediately and noticed that number 2 cylinder had cracked at the base. As you know from my run in period earlier in this forum blog the engine whas VERY cearfully run-in and I have subsequently had about 25 flights with no issues.
Hopfully it will just need a replacement cylider and piston ring.
I had two good flights, and then started the engine for the 3rd flight and within 20 seconds of runng it suddenly started to make a knocking sound.
I shut down immediately and noticed that number 2 cylinder had cracked at the base. As you know from my run in period earlier in this forum blog the engine whas VERY cearfully run-in and I have subsequently had about 25 flights with no issues.
Hopfully it will just need a replacement cylider and piston ring.
An obvious fabrication failure. Probably a large air-bubble in the mould.
You should report it, and get a new cylinder plus plus for free.
No doubt.
If not, I don't know what to say.
Last edited by kwik; 07-12-2015 at 11:33 AM.
07-14-2015, 12:40 AM
#174
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: darwin, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Do any of you knowledgeable engine heads out there think this piston barrel cracking could be caused from a hydraulic lock. I cant see myself how oil could leak into the cylinder and cause it to hydraulic and try and lift the barrel off the motor block..? but i know on my motor the lower plugs are very oiled up when I have removed them and the top plug is as dry as a nuns purse. This is the second failure of this type that has been reported here.. just my 20 cents worth here.
