Saito FG-60R3
#126
Hi Frank,
2 out on the high and 6 on the low is not enough rich to break-in the engine, break-in procedure of FG-60 R3 is similar to glow engines, when i did the first fuel tanks for my engine I set 4 in the high and 8 in the low, running with a lot of misfiring, after 2 liters of gas I set 2-1/2 in the high and 6-1/2 in the low, and I fly normally with this setting, slightly rich
2 out on the high and 6 on the low is not enough rich to break-in the engine, break-in procedure of FG-60 R3 is similar to glow engines, when i did the first fuel tanks for my engine I set 4 in the high and 8 in the low, running with a lot of misfiring, after 2 liters of gas I set 2-1/2 in the high and 6-1/2 in the low, and I fly normally with this setting, slightly rich
Last edited by Alex70; 06-01-2015 at 08:50 AM.
#127
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When I ran in my engine, we ran it "blubbering" rich on 15:1, meaning so rich it barely ran. This is what is referred to as "open main needle until speed drops just before engine stops". The Saito instructions aren't the clearest, but I think it suggest that the first 1/2 gallon or so needs an abundance of high quality lubrication or the risk of conrod, piston, and/or cylinder failure is high.
This happened all too frequently on the 33R3 and 84R3, but I was hopeful the introduction of the bushing and improved fuel/lubrication distribution found on the 60R3 remedied this - guess not.
This happened all too frequently on the 33R3 and 84R3, but I was hopeful the introduction of the bushing and improved fuel/lubrication distribution found on the 60R3 remedied this - guess not.
Last edited by marksp; 06-01-2015 at 07:38 PM.
#128
answers...
it was running great - it was starting easily by hand... WOT @ 4,000 RPM with 2 out on the high needle and 6 out on the low needle (set with the throttle closed) very rich - a lot of black oil coming out of the motor
cylinder temps - 185 degrees cylinder two, 195 degrees cylinder 1, and 205 degrees cylinder 3 - all F with a digital laser temp gauge on the top of the cylinder
exhaust - no "pooling" that I could see/hear... started by hand
crankcase vent - no tube or blockage
it was running great - it was starting easily by hand... WOT @ 4,000 RPM with 2 out on the high needle and 6 out on the low needle (set with the throttle closed) very rich - a lot of black oil coming out of the motor
cylinder temps - 185 degrees cylinder two, 195 degrees cylinder 1, and 205 degrees cylinder 3 - all F with a digital laser temp gauge on the top of the cylinder
exhaust - no "pooling" that I could see/hear... started by hand
crankcase vent - no tube or blockage
One last thing I can think of is that the manual says to go over all bolts after the first tanks to check for looseness. Maybe that cylinder had a loose one and the remaining lugs on the bottom could not take the stress...?
Anyhow - good luck on your warranty. They will ask you to send the motor in and after disassembly it will show whether it was a hydro lock or seizure or (hopefully) a material failure.. Let us know - for the benefit of the thread.
BR,
Hector.
Last edited by hpergm; 06-01-2015 at 09:28 AM.
#130
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mine did the same thing but it was #3 cylinder.horizon hobby did repair it.n/c also they replaced the carb apparently they could not get it to rev over 5000 with a 22x10 prop.have not run it yet since its been back but will by the weekend
#132
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FG-60R3 About the cracked head.....
Honestly...... That isn't a big deal...... Horizon will fix it..... I hope the piston isn't seized..... I am guessing the cyl had a bad casting....
If this is what it was.... If you have a casting issue or some other bad from factory issue.... The good news is.....IT WILL BREAK RIGHT AWAY.....
Once you get over that hump.... they are going to be solid...... that is why a lot of racers hate to start changing out parts on full size engines...for the "SAKE OF ROUTINE" checks.
Honestly...... That isn't a big deal...... Horizon will fix it..... I hope the piston isn't seized..... I am guessing the cyl had a bad casting....
If this is what it was.... If you have a casting issue or some other bad from factory issue.... The good news is.....IT WILL BREAK RIGHT AWAY.....
Once you get over that hump.... they are going to be solid...... that is why a lot of racers hate to start changing out parts on full size engines...for the "SAKE OF ROUTINE" checks.
#133
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I am thinking about the OS 7 cyl. and when OS will come out with some Gasoline radials or MULTI cyl gasoline 4 strokes......
They will do a good job when they do...
My saito 325 will be up in a plane soon..... from my understanding, this has a fan that distributes the fuel evenly
I ran it shortly on a test stand, rich, and cyls were un even temps....
Which makes sence, as rich setting will cause this....
There isn't a PERFECT scenario..... with radials...... I wouldn't get all caught up in it too much....just go and run it rich for break in but make sure it gets hot enough to actually BREAK IN the engine.
I see it with the nitro car guys..... they don't heat up the engine enough to get the cyl to expand..... then the cyl/piston wares out prematurely or the conrod breaks from stress.... then the engine manf. gets the blame...
when it should have not...
They will do a good job when they do...
My saito 325 will be up in a plane soon..... from my understanding, this has a fan that distributes the fuel evenly
I ran it shortly on a test stand, rich, and cyls were un even temps....
Which makes sence, as rich setting will cause this....
There isn't a PERFECT scenario..... with radials...... I wouldn't get all caught up in it too much....just go and run it rich for break in but make sure it gets hot enough to actually BREAK IN the engine.
I see it with the nitro car guys..... they don't heat up the engine enough to get the cyl to expand..... then the cyl/piston wares out prematurely or the conrod breaks from stress.... then the engine manf. gets the blame...
when it should have not...
#136
This is a link to the video of 2 FG-60 R3's installed in a B-25, it sounds awesome during flight!
Roger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0mAaKpU7U
Roger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0mAaKpU7U
#137
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pretty spectacular...
I went ahead and bought another FG60R3 while Im waiting for the repair... this one starts on a couple flips with 6 out on the low and 5 out on the high.. Running really ragged @ WOT between 3800 and 4200 RPM
I went ahead and bought another FG60R3 while Im waiting for the repair... this one starts on a couple flips with 6 out on the low and 5 out on the high.. Running really ragged @ WOT between 3800 and 4200 RPM
This is a link to the video of 2 FG-60 R3's installed in a B-25, it sounds awesome during flight!
Roger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0mAaKpU7U
Roger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nC0mAaKpU7U
#138
I am thinking about the OS 7 cyl. and when OS will come out with some Gasoline radials or MULTI cyl gasoline 4 strokes......
They will do a good job when they do...
My saito 325 will be up in a plane soon..... from my understanding, this has a fan that distributes the fuel evenly
I ran it shortly on a test stand, rich, and cyls were un even temps....
Which makes sence, as rich setting will cause this....
There isn't a PERFECT scenario..... with radials...... I wouldn't get all caught up in it too much....just go and run it rich for break in but make sure it gets hot enough to actually BREAK IN the engine.
I see it with the nitro car guys..... they don't heat up the engine enough to get the cyl to expand..... then the cyl/piston wares out prematurely or the conrod breaks from stress.... then the engine manf. gets the blame...
when it should have not...
They will do a good job when they do...
My saito 325 will be up in a plane soon..... from my understanding, this has a fan that distributes the fuel evenly
I ran it shortly on a test stand, rich, and cyls were un even temps....
Which makes sence, as rich setting will cause this....
There isn't a PERFECT scenario..... with radials...... I wouldn't get all caught up in it too much....just go and run it rich for break in but make sure it gets hot enough to actually BREAK IN the engine.
I see it with the nitro car guys..... they don't heat up the engine enough to get the cyl to expand..... then the cyl/piston wares out prematurely or the conrod breaks from stress.... then the engine manf. gets the blame...
when it should have not...
#139
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I honestly hope OS doesn't convert it all to gas. They are doing the right thing keeping some methanol options. IMO, I think this engine is cool but there are drawbacks to gas in modelling. The benefit to running pump gas is the ease of availability, cost, and ease of mixing your on fuel ratios. It's all in the cost of running the fuel... but while the cost of gas saves you at the pump, In these size engines gas causes more problems than it fixes IMO - at least in terms of these Saito 4 strokes and radials. They seem to wear out rather quickly, and have added heat etc. plus, who wants to bring gasoline inside your house to work on your equipment? I tried running one of these Saito gassers, and wasn't impressed in a few aspects - the smell inside the house was the final deterrent. Love the methanol radials... too bad they are slowly killing them.
#140
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I just ran my saito 450R yesterday (methanol) and the crank/main rod jornal seized up!...
They had a plastic cap on the engine of the rod/crank.... I would think this would LEssen the oil getting into it??
anyhow.... I opened it and, little sanding (very small area that was ripped up (on the main rod) doesn't have any brass in there.. only aluminum....
Plenty of OIL and THE BLACK thick grease inside the engine.... so plenty of oil.....
either... a tiny chip of alum. inside there got into it, of when I ran the engine out of methanol, it got hot there....????
anyway it is ready to rip now...
They had a plastic cap on the engine of the rod/crank.... I would think this would LEssen the oil getting into it??
anyhow.... I opened it and, little sanding (very small area that was ripped up (on the main rod) doesn't have any brass in there.. only aluminum....
Plenty of OIL and THE BLACK thick grease inside the engine.... so plenty of oil.....
either... a tiny chip of alum. inside there got into it, of when I ran the engine out of methanol, it got hot there....????
anyway it is ready to rip now...
#141
I have a 2.60m byron at6 that weights 21lbs without motor. Will the saito 60r3 be enough power for this bird, or do i need the 84r3? I would love to be able to use the 60r3 beceause of the newer tech.
#143
So, you should have no problems flying it in a scale-like fashion - unless you want to also hover it..
#145
I'd go with the 60r3. Pushing a 22x10 prop around 6,700 rpm should give you about ~26lbs of static thrust. That figure will improve some when the engine/plane isn't held back. More than enough for a warbird at better than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio
#150
Is anyone using the FG60R3 on a 50cc class aerobatic plane? i.e. Sukhoi Yak, etc.
I'm not into 3D. I also hate the chainsaw sound of 2-stroke gassers. I wonder if a Pilot Rc Yak55 w/ FG60R3 could be mild IMAC capable with reasonable wing loading. As a reference I'm having a 40cc Great Planes YAk 54 with a LAser 300v on it. It's a nice combo although the wing loading is a bit high due to a bit small wing of the GP Yak. However, it flyes traditional aerobatics (cuban eights, stall turns, etc.) very well.
Another reference: a friend of mine is having a Pilot Rc Yak 55 50cc with a Saito FA-450 on it. He says he does not want any less power. I'm just thinking the FA-450 isn't the most powerfull engine for its size and weights about 2 lbs more than the FG60R3.
Any thoughts?
I'm not into 3D. I also hate the chainsaw sound of 2-stroke gassers. I wonder if a Pilot Rc Yak55 w/ FG60R3 could be mild IMAC capable with reasonable wing loading. As a reference I'm having a 40cc Great Planes YAk 54 with a LAser 300v on it. It's a nice combo although the wing loading is a bit high due to a bit small wing of the GP Yak. However, it flyes traditional aerobatics (cuban eights, stall turns, etc.) very well.
Another reference: a friend of mine is having a Pilot Rc Yak 55 50cc with a Saito FA-450 on it. He says he does not want any less power. I'm just thinking the FA-450 isn't the most powerfull engine for its size and weights about 2 lbs more than the FG60R3.
Any thoughts?