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Old 05-22-2006, 12:37 PM
  #3251  
William Robison
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Wally:

I’l agree with Ron on this one, but the most important point is inverting the plane to get your initial settings.

I get the impression the engine is new, and ha not been run in. If this is the case4 you’re not going to be a happy camper at all until the engine has an hour or so on it. And the best thing would be to pull it off the plane and do the run-in on a stand.

YTou should not need a regulator to make it run well.
-----------------------------------------------------

Jett:

Carrying a camera you will probably be much happier with the FA-82. Being a larger engine with just about the same weight you naturally have more vibration with the larger engine, but at part throttle you wont have any amount more than with the FA-56 running at a higher setting. In either case a GRP mount, Dave Brown or similar, will do the job.

Neither one is more reliable when properly set, that’s a non-issue.

Bill.
Old 05-22-2006, 02:09 PM
  #3252  
wkunkel
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Hey thanks Bill.
I'd sure like to save the 60 bucks if I can. This is all thats keeping me on the ground with this bird at this point. It's been very frustrating.
But with this good input from you and Ron, I'll get r flying soon.
Thanks guys
Old 05-22-2006, 07:12 PM
  #3253  
JettPilot
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

That decides it then, my new project is getting an FA-82

I will also be using a perry pump, I currently have a FA-150 using the pressure tap perry pump setup with the T fitting you described... It works great, but the low speed needle is incredibly sensitive... Perry also has a vibrating pump which is smaller and easier to install, but I would think the crankcase pressure tap pump would be more stable and constant pressure, what do you think WR ? Which pump would you use on an 82 [sm=confused.gif]

JettPilot


PS - The open end of the T fitting from the crank is coating the bottom of my model with a huge amount of oil [:'(] What do you think about routing the crank breether back into the carb velocity stack, so that it gets sucked into the engine and blown out the muffler [sm=idea.gif]
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:23 PM
  #3254  
William Robison
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Jett:

I have always tried to minimize vibration. Since the vibration is what makes the VP-20 “Shaker” pump work I have never used one. All of my several pump installations use the VP-30 pressure actuated pump. The VP-20 does work though, or people wouldn’t use it, and Conley would not have a market for it.

The sensitivity of the LS makes me think your pressure is high – turn the pump regulator screw out ½ turn and see what happens. If the pressure is high this could also be contributing to the mess on the bottom of the plane – it’s running rich at low and part throttle. How’s your endurance? Is it guzzling its fuel? Another rich indication.

I see you’re not running an air filter. This could also add to the mess.

Regards the vent. I have long felt that positive crank case ventilation was like running a hose from your back end into your left nostril. The aroma wont offend others but you’ll have a smelly time. The engine is running a “Total Loss” oik system, it’s intended to blow to the air. Normally I’d say if it’s too much run the vent hose to the rear of the plane, but with the pump that would again raise the pressure with the added restriction. Still, you can try it and readjust the system.

Bill.
Old 05-22-2006, 09:32 PM
  #3255  
Kimhoff
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Bill,

What prop size and what RPM should I target for my FA 45s?

Thanks
Old 05-22-2006, 09:57 PM
  #3256  
William Robison
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Kim:

Purely guessing based on the FA-30, but I'd start with a 12x6 and shoot for 10K to 10.5K static rpm.

Maybe some onr running a 45 will comment?

Bill.
Old 05-22-2006, 10:23 PM
  #3257  
w8ye
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

If your shooting for 10,500, a 11-7 might be more like it?
Old 05-22-2006, 10:39 PM
  #3258  
William Robison
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Jim:

Shouldn't the 12x6 and the 11x7 be approximately thed same load on the engine?

Bill.
Old 05-22-2006, 11:08 PM
  #3259  
Bone
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I'm currently using my Saito 45S in a low wing model - sort of like an Astro Hog - wingspan about 52". Our field is about 100' above sea level.

Running a 10.5 x 6 APC on 10% nitro/17% coolpower/3% castor mix. From memory, it turns about 10,800 on the ground. I'm not a believer in extracting the the very last drop of horsepower from my engines, so possibly you could get a couple more hundred RPM than me. If I want more power, I use a bigger engine.

I did try a 12 x 6 MA but it was too much of a load for the engine on that particular model. An 11 x 6 APC was better than the MA, but the engine appears very happy with the 10.5 x 6 APC.
Old 05-22-2006, 11:20 PM
  #3260  
William Robison
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Thanks Bone.

Bill.
Old 05-22-2006, 11:23 PM
  #3261  
JettPilot
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Thanks for the always very informed responses to my questions William

I am running the regulator screw backed out so far im afraid that if I back it out any more it will fall out of the socket [X(] My FA-150S GK has a velocity stack, and is still gulping fuel like an old american car [sm=drowning.gif] I am able to adjust the low speed screw for max RPM at low idle, and it maintains it pretty well... But its just so sensitive that like turning the screw a even couple degrees one way or the other results in the engine not being able to idle. Its so incredibly sensitive that I have to try not to breathe while just turning it an inperceptable amount [sm=surprised.gif]

I have the high speed very rich for break in still, but it is not overly sensitive, maybe 1/4 turn before it makes much of a difference at full throttle... So that seems pretty normal...

My regulator setup is as follows: Crank vent goes through 1/4 inch tube straight to T fitting. Bottom of T fitting is open to atmosphere... The through side of the T goes through 4 inches of the supplied hose to the VP-30 pressure input. You can see it in the attached picture and also the backed out regulator screw [sm=cool.gif]

Your observation about the VP-20 is exactly what I was thinking. I will buy another VP-30 for my FA-82
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:28 AM
  #3262  
William Robison
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Jett:

Sounds like it's time for a different trick.

Run the pressure screw back in to about a 1/16" gap, and run the vent hose out the tail of the plane. This is going to put the pressure 'way up, that's why there's a second part to the trick.Now put a tee in the feed line from the pump to the carb, as close to the carb as you can get it. Connect a return line to the tank from the leg of the tee. You'll still need a tank vent - three lines now to the tank.

Adjust the carb as though it was running normal muffler pressure.

An alternate, if you would like to try it, is replace the hard hose supplied with the pump, just use normal silicone hose. This will lower the pressure a bit.

Bill.
Old 05-23-2006, 12:31 AM
  #3263  
T28RON
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Wally: I have a cline regulator on my 180 and a few other engines such as the Miki 210. these engines are inverted and it did make a big diff. It is reassuring that when I go to low throtlle or any other setting that the fuel is regulated to the carb input. and maintains the proper fuel flow.
Old 05-23-2006, 01:18 AM
  #3264  
Thunderchild
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

Jett:

I have always tried to minimize vibration. Since the vibration is what makes the VP-20 “Shaker” pump work I have never used one. All of my several pump installations use the VP-30 pressure actuated pump. The VP-20 does work though, or people wouldn’t use it, and Conley would not have a market for it.

The sensitivity of the LS makes me think your pressure is high – turn the pump regulator screw out ½ turn and see what happens. If the pressure is high this could also be contributing to the mess on the bottom of the plane – it’s running rich at low and part throttle. How’s your endurance? Is it guzzling its fuel? Another rich indication.

I see you’re not running an air filter. This could also add to the mess.

Regards the vent. I have long felt that positive crank case ventilation was like running a hose from your back end into your left nostril. The aroma wont offend others but you’ll have a smelly time. The engine is running a “Total Loss” oik system, it’s intended to blow to the air. Normally I’d say if it’s too much run the vent hose to the rear of the plane, but with the pump that would again raise the pressure with the added restriction. Still, you can try it and readjust the system.

Bill.
Hello Bill,

This has prompted a memory item for me.

My 82 had a caveat in the owner's manual telling me to restrict the length of the crankcase breather hose to no more than aobout 2 inches in length I think it was.

Why would this be Bill?
Old 05-23-2006, 01:30 AM
  #3265  
William Robison
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TC:

I've always considered 4" to be about the best length for the breather hose. The problem is that the hose itself restricts the flow, and the longer the hose the higher the crank case pressure will run.

Since the lubrication of the bottom end of the engine depends on ring leakage the higher crank case pressure will naturally decrease the amount of oil coming past the piston ring.

As a practical matter I've not seen any problem with the vent hose up to about 12" length, but if I go longer I'd use the large size hose to decrease the case pressure rise.

Bill.
Old 05-23-2006, 01:35 AM
  #3266  
Thunderchild
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ORIGINAL: William Robison

TC:

I've always considered 4" to be about the best length for the breather hose. The problem is that the hose itself restricts the flow, and the longer the hose the higher the crank case pressure will run.

Since the lubrication of the bottom end of the engine depends on ring leakage the higher crank case pressure will naturally decrease the amount of oil coming past the piston ring.

As a practical matter I've not seen any problem with the vent hose up to about 12" length, but if I go longer I'd use the large size hose to decrease the case pressure rise.

Bill.

Makes sense.

I have a 1/4 scale Cub (my avatar in fact) with an FT-120 Only Scrap that has about 12 inches of hose dropping the oil overboard by the left wheel axle. I'll just re-measure and make sure I am not over doing it. There is always plenty of oil dripping out the end (much to my pit buddys disgust) so I now hang a little bottle off the tube when parked to catch it.

Thanks as always Bill

safe flying TC
Old 05-23-2006, 08:58 AM
  #3267  
Ray44
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Ron, I'm thinking of putting a Cline Regulator on my inverted 150, but where to
purchase. I did a google search and came up mt handed.

I did find a regulator from IronBay or something like that, rather give the Cline a try first.

Thanks,
Ray
Old 05-23-2006, 09:18 AM
  #3268  
T28RON
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Ray: Try this. http://www.billsroom.com

Ron
Old 05-24-2006, 07:35 AM
  #3269  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !


ORIGINAL: solafein

I guess our little single cylinder dynamos are a little diffrent than my car where cool, moist and dense air adds 20 horses and five hundred RPM to my redline.

Atmospherics have little affect om the redline. They may enhance specific power,but not the redline.
Old 05-24-2006, 08:56 AM
  #3270  
Ray44
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Ron, Got it and it's just what I was looking for, THANKS!

Ray
Old 05-24-2006, 01:32 PM
  #3271  
T28RON
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Ray: Great. Just remember the mounting is critical. No more than 1" from carb. Keep me posted.

Ron
Old 05-24-2006, 07:55 PM
  #3272  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

I'm curious? Why are all you guys using pumps?

Second question. How big of a plane do you think 2 Saito .40s should be able to pull around? I was trying one out on my Hobbico Superstar trainer to see if it would fly a .40 size plane around. It flew but not well.

I tried a few different props.
11x4 it was turning 10.4k
11x6 was around 9200

I was hoping they would have enough ummph to fly a twin stick.

TIA
Micheal
Old 05-24-2006, 08:13 PM
  #3273  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

i have three saitos and have only needed a regulator on one and that was because the tank was behind the carb by some 10 inches over CG, normally a saito will not need a pump, mine all run fine without one.
Old 05-24-2006, 08:49 PM
  #3274  
T28RON
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I use the snider flow pump because with 3D I want to make sure that I am getting proper fuel flow when performing hovers close to the ground. I don't want the engine to starve of fuel when doing all of the aero bats. These pumps also help with the proper fuel flow for any installation mistakes such as fuel tank too far away or not in the right position for fuel flow. With a $2500/3000 investment in a plane, it's just cheap insurance. Having said that, even with the fuel pump there is always the X factor for things to go wrong.

Ron
Old 05-24-2006, 09:09 PM
  #3275  
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Default RE: Welcome to Club SAITO !

Guys (and Ladyflyer) some help please if you can:

My recently acquired fa-325R5 came with a McDaniels 4.8V 5 cylinder onboard glow system. The problem is that the installation notes wiring diagram has been altered with hand written notes so that now I can not trust them.

Would anyone have a copy of these notes they could email me please?

BTW, I have already tried McDaniels (Sonic-Tronics Inc.) but they have not yet responded to my request.

Grateful for any assistance.

TC [&o]

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