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Old 03-26-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
My wife must be a Saint. I assembled my Sbach on the dining room table, with her blessing of course.
My wife got a new quartz kitchen counter top.
Dead flat.
She built me a perfect Sr Kadet Wing and Fuselage on it.
She does the brake jobs around here too.
Old 03-26-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
My wife must be a Saint. I assembled my Sbach on the dining room table, with her blessing of course.
Well, I've butchered deer on the kitchen table several times.
Old 03-26-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
Well, I've butchered deer on the kitchen table several times.
Haahaaaa, lol, my wife is a vegetarian so that would never fly!
Old 03-26-2019, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jesse open



my wife got a new quartz kitchen counter top.
Dead flat.
She built me a perfect sr kadet wing and fuselage on it.
She does the brake jobs around here too.
*winner*
Old 03-26-2019, 07:39 PM
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Originally Posted by glowgeek
*winner*
lol lol
Old 03-26-2019, 07:41 PM
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LO L this site is so screwy, in my above post it would not let my use capital "L" (s)

Jim
Old 03-27-2019, 12:44 AM
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'don't need no flash tables in the balcony seats' watching this crazy show
Old 03-27-2019, 02:41 AM
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Yup
the 150GK did not fly. Even after I told her it was an “S” She just said get that thing out of here. Jr thought it was cool but mama rules.
So after supper we built another 180HC. Will run that tonight.

Last edited by Captcrunch44; 03-27-2019 at 02:52 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 03:12 AM
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Default Shortening Saito Pushrods

I will be removing material from the cylinder deck of the case on my fa82 to increase/optimize effective compression for use with 15% nitro. At some point I may need to shorten the pushrods to maintain proper pushrod/rocker arm geometry. I'm looking for advice on how to accomplish this without compromising the metal hardness and how one might go about reprofiling the tappet end of the pushrod after shortening it.
Old 03-27-2019, 03:13 AM
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Originally Posted by the Wasp
Dave, I was going to try it as Gary said, I would think it should work, because these valves came with my regulators (I just need a couple more), they are used with the OS Heli engine regulators to hold the tank pressure from going back into the crank case, and knowing a 4 stroke should have more crank case pressure than a 2 stroke I would think they would work on a Saito too

Jim
Originally Posted by Hobbsy
Jim,

Still want me to send a pair or are you going with Dave's source?

Just let me know...
Old 03-27-2019, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
I will be removing material from the cylinder deck of the case on my fa82 to increase/optimize effective compression for use with 15% nitro. At some point I may need to shorten the pushrods to maintain proper pushrod/rocker arm geometry. I'm looking for advice on how to accomplish this without compromising the metal hardness and how one might go about reprofiling the tappet end of the pushrod after shortening it.
after taking.032 off the deck on the 180’s. I only have to readjust the valves. No need to shorten push rods
Old 03-27-2019, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Captcrunch44

after taking.032 off the deck on the 180’s. I only have to readjust the valves. No need to shorten push rods
On a 180 with longer pushrods yeah maybe it wouldn't affect the geometry much. On an 82 with shorter pushrods it might. I attend to make the sweep nuetral (90°) at mid lift or at the very least duplicate the swept motion as designed by saito.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 03-27-2019 at 03:36 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
On a 180 with longer pushrods yeah maybe it wouldn't affect the geometry much. On an 82 with shorter pushrods it might. I attend to make the sweep nuetral (90°) at mid lift or at the very least duplicate the swept motion as designed by saito.
how is shortening the deck going to effect geometry?
You’re not changing the valve train. All those parts would not be affected. Even on the shorter 82.
Old 03-27-2019, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Captcrunch44


how is shortening the deck going to effect geometry?
You’re not changing the valve train. All those parts would not be affected. Even on the shorter 82.
I suppose you're right, the rocker shaft is in a fixed location. Cutting pushrods is probably a non-issue too if the lash adjuster remains within adjustable range. I'm an over thinker with a brain deficit.
Old 03-27-2019, 04:13 AM
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And if you did cut them it would difficult to put the hardened ends back on.
Old 03-27-2019, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Captcrunch44
how is shortening the deck going to effect geometry?
You’re not changing the valve train. All those parts would not be affected. Even on the shorter 82.
I agree. Will not affect geometry just will raise compression within the head.
Old 03-27-2019, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Captcrunch44


how is shortening the deck going to effect geometry?
You’re not changing the valve train. All those parts would not be affected. Even on the shorter 82.
Originally Posted by Glowgeek
I suppose you're right, the rocker shaft is in a fixed location. Cutting pushrods is probably a non-issue too if the lash adjuster remains within adjustable range. I'm an over thinker with a brain deficit.
Reducing the deck will have the same effect as lengthening the pushrods. It will move the C/L of the rocker closer to the cam lobes.

Will that have a significant effect on valve train efficiency? Maybe, maybe not.

How are you determining how much to reduce the deck height?

Do you know the existing combustion chamber volume?

Have you checked the existing piston/valve/head deck clearances?
Old 03-27-2019, 04:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rowdog_14
I agree. Will not affect geometry just will raise compression within the head.
It will affect geometry, but probably not significantly.
Old 03-27-2019, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
It will affect geometry, but probably not significantly.
Yes, it is the same as just changing the push rods out. You will just have to maybe change the lash as long as he does not mil off too much of the base of the cylinder head. I guess when I say geometry I mean within reason of what he is trying to do. I changed a cam in a 5.7 hemi and I considered two options either one milling the heads or getting 6.1 hemi rods. I chose 6.1 rods. Did not have to mess with the lash or alter the current setup of the geometry. Ether way everything was in spec and I would not have had to adjust the valvetrain. So that is what I mean in this case I would think he will be in spec to not completely alter the geometry of the factory setup.
Old 03-27-2019, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150

How are you determining how much to reduce the deck height?

Do you know the existing combustion chamber volume?

Have you checked the existing piston/valve/head deck clearances?
Yet to be determined. For volumetric measurements I plan on using Downunder's process of calibrating a length of tubing to cc the combustion chamber and effective swept volume (Int valve closed). To ensure that only the effective volume is measured I'll be using a degree wheel. The other measurements are simple enough to perform with my collection of tools.

I only have an idea where the CR will end up when optimized for 15% nitro. Probably somewhere between 10:1 to 12:1 but that's just based on what I've read around the forums.

Determining initial CR will dictate how much I deck the case and I will probably remove material .010" at a time until I see no more peak rpm gain with an apc 14x6 prop. Once that is established a .005" brass shim will be added back as a safety margin to ward off detonation.

LOTS OF EDITS ABOVE and if I'm on crack someone will straighten me out I hope.

Last edited by Glowgeek; 03-27-2019 at 05:24 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SrTelemaster150
It will affect geometry, but probably not significantly.
Help me to understand.
if it does change, how does it change?
If you are not changing lift and duration or rocker arm placement.
I only ask to get more education.
Old 03-27-2019, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Captcrunch44


Help me to understand.
if it does change, how does it change?
If you are not changing lift and duration or rocker arm placement.
I only ask to get more education.
By reducing the deck you are effectively lengthening the pushrod.

The adjusting screw must then be backed out to make up for the "longer" pushrod. This does slightly change the rocker arm geometry.

Visualize it as bending a straight line between the rocker/valve stem interface and the rocker/pushrod interface

Is it significant? Not really, as long as it is not extreme. The 1st issue that would probably arise is not having enough threads in the rocker for the required adjustment.

FA-120/150/180 all use the same pushrod.

Last edited by SrTelemaster150; 03-27-2019 at 07:22 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by rowdog_14
Yes, it is the same as just changing the push rods out. You will just have to maybe change the lash as long as he does not mil off too much of the base of the cylinder head. I guess when I say geometry I mean within reason of what he is trying to do. I changed a cam in a 5.7 hemi and I considered two options either one milling the heads or getting 6.1 hemi rods. I chose 6.1 rods. Did not have to mess with the lash or alter the current setup of the geometry. Ether way everything was in spec and I would not have had to adjust the valvetrain. So that is what I mean in this case I would think he will be in spec to not completely alter the geometry of the factory setup.
5.7 Hemi you say?

I know a little bit abut wringing more power out of those roo.

Stock rotating assembly MDS still enabled 26 MPG on the highway, 4300# at the line. Driven to the track, sometimes as much as 900 miles one way.


That was N/A, this is with a 125 shot of nitrous that ran out just as I hit the traps..

Old 03-27-2019, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Glowgeek
I suppose you're right, the rocker shaft is in a fixed location. Cutting pushrods is probably a non-issue too if the lash adjuster remains within adjustable range. I'm an over thinker with a brain deficit.
speed the video forward to 1:10


Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 03-27-2019 at 09:30 AM.
Old 03-27-2019, 09:35 AM
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Cutting pushrods is probably a non-issue too if the lash adjuster remains within adjustable range
you would never know because you have increase the compression, if you did one mod at a time you may see a difference,, may not too LOL

Jim

Last edited by the Wasp; 03-27-2019 at 09:56 AM.

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